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Players & their Contracts.

Schmoopy1000

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I not gonna talk about the rookie contracts, since players have next to no control of those contracts.
If they dont like those contracts they need to address their union not the team.

But When mega players sign a new contract. They want long term security of a long term deal.
This gives them bigger signing bonuses & more guaranteed money. Very understandable.
However a couple years into that long term deal other players sign & the # for that position goes up & the player feels I am better than these guys making more.
Holds out with couple to several years left.

Hey. Cant have your cake & eat it too.

If a player wants the right to adjust their salary sooner. They should sign shorter deals (less bonuses & guarantees) So they can stay up with the curve.

Signing a long term deal (5 to 7 years lets say) & then bitch after 2 or 3 years. I say suck it up buttercup.
You signed that deal to get all that up front money. No way should they hold out & anyone feel sorry for them.
Go sign a 3 year deal. You take risk of injury or just not playing as well. but that would give you the right to constantly adjust your pay scale.

Players shouldnt get to complain he isnt getting the best of both worlds.

No one forces them to sign a contract (barring the rookie contract)
If a player agrees to the terms, they should have to honor them. Hold outs are Bullshit.

I am fine with a team that plans on extending a player negotiating in their final year. That is logical for both sides, but hold outs should only be for players no longer under contract. Which technically isnt a hold out I guess. LOL
Bell had the right to hold out. He honored his contract.

Acting like Players are victims is BS. If they undervalued themselves when they signed a contract. Not a teams fault. he can fire his agent.

Really it is simple.
You want long term security. Sign a long term contract & dont complain others are getting more than you later.
or
If you want to bet on yourself. Sign a shorter term contract so you can stay on top of the payscale.

Dont think you get to demand to do both. Then Cry like you are the victim to the big bad company, because they dont agree.
 

rmilia1

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You're seeing this in the NBA now . Guys signing shorter deals with more flexibility.

It's a catch 22:though in the NFL . Guys are far more likely to get injured so that guarantee is huge . Not sure if you can fix it
 

Schmoopy1000

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You're seeing this in the NBA now . Guys signing shorter deals with more flexibility.

It's a catch 22:though in the NFL . Guys are far more likely to get injured so that guarantee is huge . Not sure if you can fix it
Point is.
The players get to decide what they are signing.
No one blames a player for signing a long term security deal.
I can blame them for bitching about it or holding out later.
At that point they should have signed a shorter deal. They dont get it both ways.
 

Sharkonabicycle

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Told my employer yesterday I was holding out of work for a new contract.

I guess on the positive front, I'm now seeking a new contract outside of that employer...
 

rmilia1

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Point is.
The players get to decide what they are signing.
No one blames a player for signing a long term security deal.
I can blame them for bitching about it or holding out later.
At that point they should have signed a shorter deal. They dont get it both ways.
No I get your point . I'm just saying it's tougher as a NFL player to make that decision
 

rmilia1

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Told my employer yesterday I was holding out of work for a new contract.

I guess on the positive front, I'm now seeking a new contract outside of that employer...
It happens in my business all the time . Commission sales is a lot like sports . You get paid what you're worth . Our top guys are always renegotiating % . Sometimes they overvalue themselves and we cut them loose . Other times they don't and we pay them . There's a reason only stars hold out .
 

mcnabb7542

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Point is.
The players get to decide what they are signing.
No one blames a player for signing a long term security deal.
I can blame them for bitching about it or holding out later.
At that point they should have signed a shorter deal. They dont get it both ways.

Well said!
 

ATL96Steeler

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I not gonna talk about the rookie contracts, since players have next to no control of those contracts.
If they dont like those contracts they need to address their union not the team.

But When mega players sign a new contract. They want long term security of a long term deal.
This gives them bigger signing bonuses & more guaranteed money. Very understandable.
However a couple years into that long term deal other players sign & the # for that position goes up & the player feels I am better than these guys making more.
Holds out with couple to several years left.

Hey. Cant have your cake & eat it too.

If a player wants the right to adjust their salary sooner. They should sign shorter deals (less bonuses & guarantees) So they can stay up with the curve.

Signing a long term deal (5 to 7 years lets say) & then bitch after 2 or 3 years. I say suck it up buttercup.
You signed that deal to get all that up front money. No way should they hold out & anyone feel sorry for them.
Go sign a 3 year deal. You take risk of injury or just not playing as well. but that would give you the right to constantly adjust your pay scale.

Players shouldnt get to complain he isnt getting the best of both worlds.

No one forces them to sign a contract (barring the rookie contract)
If a player agrees to the terms, they should have to honor them. Hold outs are Bullshit.

I am fine with a team that plans on extending a player negotiating in their final year. That is logical for both sides, but hold outs should only be for players no longer under contract. Which technically isnt a hold out I guess. LOL
Bell had the right to hold out. He honored his contract.

Acting like Players are victims is BS. If they undervalued themselves when they signed a contract. Not a teams fault. he can fire his agent.

Really it is simple.
You want long term security. Sign a long term contract & dont complain others are getting more than you later.
or
If you want to bet on yourself. Sign a shorter term contract so you can stay on top of the payscale.

Dont think you get to demand to do both. Then Cry like you are the victim to the big bad company, because they dont agree.


A few points.

1...the NFL is a monopoly...there are no other league that pays anywhere near what the NFL pays so saying stuff like the player isn't forced to sign is short sighted....obviously no one is putting a gun to their head and saying sign this contract...but nobody with NFL level talent is going to play in the CFL or one of these upstart leagues and make a lot less...so the reality is, yes, they do have to sign it.

2...simply because a person sees or understands what the player is facing doesn't mean they are viewed as victims....if the players are victims, they are the victims of shitty union representation more than anything else.

3...contract term length...once the player has the money he wants, they are normally working with the team to spread that contract over a longer period to reduce the annual cap hit. I don't think any player would ever want a 5 or 6 yr deal, 3 yrs and get another signing bonus 3 yrs later works far better for the player.

4...BS...when a $25 mil contract truly means $25 mil to the player in the NFL...I would feel more like you do when it comes to hold outs, etc....so IMO...as pro sports leagues contracts go I view NFL contracts as BS. I don't like hold outs, nobody that likes the NFL likes it...but again, I understand, the player has two choices when they feel they are paid less than their performance should be paid...play, or not play.

Here's the fundamental difference that you and I have on this topic...regardless of how it's (CBA) slanted, you want the player to honor the contract...you agreed to the CBA, now honor it.

When $25 mil means $25 mil in the NBA, NHL, and MLB...it should also mean $25 mil in the NFL. As long as it does not, I support (note I said support, not like, not encourage) the player doing what they feel they need to do to get paid.
 

Schmoopy1000

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1...the NFL is a monopoly...there are no other league that pays anywhere near what the NFL pays so saying stuff like the player isn't forced to sign is short sighted....obviously no one is putting a gun to their head and saying sign this contract...but nobody with NFL level talent is going to play in the CFL or one of these upstart leagues and make a lot less...so the reality is, yes, they do have to sign it.
Well that is not a monopoly. just means they pay their employees better than the other options. I refuse to spin that into a negative thing. "like they have no choice"
 

Schmoopy1000

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2...simply because a person sees or understands what the player is facing doesn't mean they are viewed as victims....if the players are victims, they are the victims of shitty union representation more than anything else.
this I can agree with. but no individual team is gonna not play by the same rules & be at a disadvantage to the other 31 teams.
 

Schmoopy1000

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3...contract term length...once the player has the money he wants, they are normally working with the team to spread that contract over a longer period to reduce the annual cap hit. I don't think any player would ever want a 5 or 6 yr deal, 3 yrs and get another signing bonus 3 yrs later works far better for the player.
This goes back to my original point
want more up front it will be a longer contract.
 

Schmoopy1000

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4...BS...when a $25 mil contract truly means $25 mil to the player in the NFL...I would feel more like you do when it comes to hold outs, etc....so IMO...as pro sports leagues contracts go I view NFL contracts as BS. I don't like hold outs, nobody that likes the NFL likes it...but again, I understand, the player has two choices when they feel they are paid less than their performance should be paid...play, or not play.
I would like for contracts to not be so BS either.
but a lot of it is egos so someone can say they have the highest contract blah blah blah.
When a lot of it is BS. (but both sides know this going in)
 

ATL96Steeler

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Well that is not a monopoly. just means they pay their employees better than the other options. I refuse to spin that into a negative thing. "like they have no choice"

Not literally as there are other pro football leagues in existence...pay scale wise, effectively they are in my book.
 

YankeeRebel

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Well IMO here is how I feel all this drama could end.

1. Owners and GMs do not respond to the medial on contract matters. Let the players say what they want but owners and GMs should say nothing.

2. Absolutely no pay at all for any day or day's you sit out, sit out a whole year get paid nothing and because that player did not play it should not count as a contract year. Play who you got don't give in.

3. Next set of talks put more restraints on contracts as it relates to players sitting out, in fact make it so that players that sit out are issued a steep fine. Conversely if a player is cut before his contract is up make his buy out higher.
 

ATL96Steeler

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This goes back to my original point
want more up front it will be a longer contract.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be...Take Cousins contract...3yrs/$84 mil...he only got $3 mil up front, but the rest of his money is guaranteed. As it is with most NFL contracts, the overall value really helps determine the length not so much the upfront money alone.

Take this contract here.

C.J. Mosley

$85 mil/$51 guaranteed/$7.5 mil signing bonus....in order for the Jets to make this work with their cap bean counters, they said we need this spread over 5 yrs...I'm sure the player would be happy with 3 or 4 years.
 

ATL96Steeler

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Well IMO here is how I feel all this drama could end.

1. Owners and GMs do not respond to the medial on contract matters. Let the players say what they want but owners and GMs should say nothing.

2. Absolutely no pay at all for any day or day's you sit out, sit out a whole year get paid nothing and because that player did not play it should not count as a contract year. Play who you got don't give in.

3. Next set of talks put more restraints on contracts as it relates to players sitting out, in fact make it so that players that sit out are issued a steep fine. Conversely if a player is cut before his contract is up make his buy out higher.

1...We're not talking about the TE2, the back up RT, or the WR with 800 yds receiving sitting out. Most teams want their top players on the roster because they want to win games, but it would be nice to ignore any player under contract holding out.

2/3...extensive fines are already in place...DAL could be fining the shit out Zeke right now (but they most likely will not fine him a dime) Why? Once the contract is done...and it will be done at some point, the team doesn't want anymore bad blood so they just move on.
 

Schmoopy1000

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Yeah, it doesn't have to be...Take Cousins contract...3yrs/$84 mil...he only got $3 mil up front, but the rest of his money is guaranteed. As it is with most NFL contracts, the overall value really helps determine the length not so much the upfront money alone.

Take this contract here.

C.J. Mosley

$85 mil/$51 guaranteed/$7.5 mil signing bonus....in order for the Jets to make this work with their cap bean counters, they said we need this spread over 5 yrs...I'm sure the player would be happy with 3 or 4 years.
right. less years, less guaranteed money. That is the decision they have to make.
if they want to negotiate sooner. (next contract) They would have to take less guaranteed money.
or take the security of more guaranteed money & long terms.
 

boogiewithstu2007

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Point is.
The players get to decide what they are signing.
No one blames a player for signing a long term security deal.
I can blame them for bitching about it or holding out later.
At that point they should have signed a shorter deal. They dont get it both ways.


I like the way Pete Carroll does it, he refuses to negotiate with anyone unless they are on the final year of there contract, otherwise he totally ignores them... I understand if it's the final year, but with 2 years left on a contract you signed, STFU and play football ...
 

Schmoopy1000

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I like the way Pete Carroll does it, he refuses to negotiate with anyone unless they are on the final year of there contract, otherwise he totally ignores them... I understand if it's the final year, but with 2 years left on a contract you signed, STFU and play football ...
that is how it should be
WetMildDolphin-small.gif
 

YankeeRebel

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1...We're not talking about the TE2, the back up RT, or the WR with 800 yds receiving sitting out. Most teams want their top players on the roster because they want to win games, but it would be nice to ignore any player under contract holding out.

2/3...extensive fines are already in place...DAL could be fining the shit out Zeke right now (but they most likely will not fine him a dime) Why? Once the contract is done...and it will be done at some point, the team doesn't want anymore bad blood so they just move on.
Right they want their top player so they cower and give in.. Set a new precedent you don't play you don't get paid, you don't play it does not count as a contract year. If a player wants out they will play out the terms of their contract and move on. The NFL is a next man up league and the next man is waiting with baited breath for that opportunity.

And this would likely lead to shorter term contracts.
 
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