Pedro Grifol out as CWS manager

[ThomasTomasz]

Source: multiple apps blowing up my phone.

Probably should never have been hired.

 

[Cedrique]

Who's gonna want to manage there now, knowing ownership has such a kneejerk reaction to a losing streak? Geez, you lose 21 straight and suddenly you're done.?.....

 

[navamind]

hard to argue for him keeping his job, but he ain't the only reason they're as bad as they are. Until the front office gets cleaned out *and* Reinsdorf sells/croaks, it's hard to see them being competitive anytime soon. Their window opened in 2020, but a lot of things just didn't go their way after 2021. Robert/Jimenez/Moncada/Anderson/Giolito/Cease/Kopech looked to be the nucleus of the franchise, but it just didn't work out between injuries and regression (coaching could play a role in the latter). The other thing with the 20-21 teams is some of their biggest contributors either regressed or left via free agency. Rodon was a free agent and Lance Lynn regressed hard, they had some bad luck with their All-Star closer battling cancer. Grandal had a monster ~half season (93 games), but fell off a cliff afterwards.

 

[TheGoodMan19]

Kind of like firing your cook for not making a gourmet meal when all he had to work with was a head of wilted lettuce and half a can of tuna.

 

[TheGoodMan19]

hard to argue for him keeping his job, but he ain't the only reason they're as bad as they are. Until the front office gets cleaned out *and* Reinsdorf sells/croaks, it's hard to see them being competitive anytime soon. Their window opened in 2020, but a lot of things just didn't go their way after 2021. Robert/Jimenez/Moncada/Anderson/Giolito/Cease/Kopech looked to be the nucleus of the franchise, but it just didn't work out between injuries and regression (coaching could play a role in the latter). The other thing with the 20-21 teams is some of their biggest contributors either regressed or left via free agency. Rodon was a free agent and Lance Lynn regressed hard, they had some bad luck with their All-Star closer battling cancer. Grandal had a monster ~half season (93 games), but fell off a cliff afterwards.

A good friend is a White Sox fan and he swears that 99% teams can be laid at the hiring of Tony LaRussa. He was way too old for the job and demolished the chemistry

 

[redskinsfan1963]

Who's gonna want to manage there now, knowing ownership has such a kneejerk reaction to a losing streak? Geez, you lose 21 straight and suddenly you're done.?.....

i feel sorry for the next guy.

 

[calsnowskier]

That will teach him to beat the A’s.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

hard to argue for him keeping his job, but he ain't the only reason they're as bad as they are. Until the front office gets cleaned out *and* Reinsdorf sells/croaks, it's hard to see them being competitive anytime soon. Their window opened in 2020, but a lot of things just didn't go their way after 2021. Robert/Jimenez/Moncada/Anderson/Giolito/Cease/Kopech looked to be the nucleus of the franchise, but it just didn't work out between injuries and regression (coaching could play a role in the latter). The other thing with the 20-21 teams is some of their biggest contributors either regressed or left via free agency. Rodon was a free agent and Lance Lynn regressed hard, they had some bad luck with their All-Star closer battling cancer. Grandal had a monster ~half season (93 games), but fell off a cliff afterwards.

What’s funny is that over half of those guys on their core were not even from their development system, they ended up making traded for them. Their scouting and development needs a major overhaul, but if it’s anything like the Orioles, it won’t happen until the owner is out of the picture, whatever that looks like.

I remember watching an Orioles/White Sox game in 2022, and It took me two innings to notice that Andrew Vaughn came out by himself when the Sox were on defense and just sat there holding the warmup ball, as it took Moancada and Anderson more than half of the between inning time to make it out to their position to ‘warm up’. It just seemed like all of the veterans were disengaged, and you can’t have that.

 

[black francis]

Can't lose that many in a row and keep your job.

That's a pretty shitty roster though.

They'll speed up the rebuild by moving crochet and Robert this winter

 

[TheGoodMan19]

You can start a rebuild with a team as bad as you can get and do it quickly. The Astros lost 324 games from 2011-2013. In 2015 they were in the playoffs and by 2017, they were Champs. The Orioles lost 333 from 2018-2021 (excluding 2020). last year they won 101. What might hurt the Sox is that stupid Draft lottery. Tough to lose 122 games and draft 4th overall. Then again, the Astros has three #1 overalls and fumbled on two, Mark Appel and Brady Aiken.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Grady Moresize is the interim manager

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Absolutely insane time to fire him.

 

[Cedrique]

I heard Sizemore tripped on his way to the press conference so he'll be out the rest of the year.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

You can start a rebuild with a team as bad as you can get and do it quickly. The Astros lost 324 games from 2011-2013. In 2015 they were in the playoffs and by 2017, they were Champs. The Orioles lost 333 from 2018-2021 (excluding 2020). last year they won 101. What might hurt the Sox is that stupid Draft lottery. Tough to lose 122 games and draft 4th overall. Then again, the Astros has three #1 overalls and fumbled on two, Mark Appel and Brady Aiken.

Here is the thing- even the Orioles in their last competitive frame- 2012-2016- really hit on one top draft pick, which was a top 3 choice on Manny Machado. We botched the development of numerous pitchers who were drafted high, including Arrieta, Gausman, Matusz and Britton. Matt Wieters was solid, but never reached the ceiling we hoped for. So you can really luck into it like the Orioles did here, but you can just as easily luck out of it like Chicago did.

I think the big difference is the discipline that Buck Showalter had the Orioles playing with was much different than what Tony La Russa and Grifol did. Seems like things were extremely laid back in Chicago, and a lot of veterans just did what they wanted.

Anyway, to your original point about quick turnarounds, yes, it can happen now, but you need to also emulate what the Orioles did in cleaning house in the front office and development system if you want meaningful change. I have a feeling that Reinsdorf, like Peter Angelos, has kept people in positions just because they’re former players or have just worked there for a long time. If you build a pipeline like the Astros, Dodgers, Rays and the Orioles have, it can be sustained success.

 

[broncosmitty]

@mr.hockey4242 sent me this earlier.

 

[TheGoodMan19]

Here is the thing- even the Orioles in their last competitive frame- 2012-2016- really hit on one top draft pick, which was a top 3 choice on Manny Machado. We botched the development of numerous pitchers who were drafted high, including Arrieta, Gausman, Matusz and Britton. Matt Wieters was solid, but never reached the ceiling we hoped for. So you can really luck into it like the Orioles did here, but you can just as easily luck out of it like Chicago did.

I think the big difference is the discipline that Buck Showalter had the Orioles playing with was much different than what Tony La Russa and Grifol did. Seems like things were extremely laid back in Chicago, and a lot of veterans just did what they wanted.

Anyway, to your original point about quick turnarounds, yes, it can happen now, but you need to also emulate what the Orioles did in cleaning house in the front office and development system if you want meaningful change. I have a feeling that Reinsdorf, like Peter Angelos, has kept people in positions just because they’re former players or have just worked there for a long time. If you build a pipeline like the Astros, Dodgers, Rays and the Orioles have, it can be sustained success.

You hit a key point. When doing a full rebuild, you can't waste time drafting pitchers, especially HS pitchers. Pitchers take too long to develop and are too injury prone. If I'm drafting top three to five, I'd stay away from any pitchers unless it's an otherworldly prospect like Paul Skenes. Draft college bats in the first three rounds, develop them quickly then trade the surplus for established pitchers.

 

[wazzu31]

You hit a key point. When doing a full rebuild, you can't waste time drafting pitchers, especially HS pitchers. Pitchers take too long to develop and are too injury prone. If I'm drafting top three to five, I'd stay away from any pitchers unless it's an otherworldly prospect like Paul Skenes. Draft college bats in the first three rounds, develop them quickly then trade the surplus for established pitchers.

Why college bats? Seems like HS bats and college pitching is a better route. How many Adley’s are there compared to the Spencer Torkelson’s