OT: Bearcat Basketball

[cincygrad]

Good timing for some Bearcat Basketball chatter..... Anyone still buying Brannen? What the hell is going on down there in Clifton?

Meanwhile, Mick is heading to the Elite 8 in his second season at UCLA.

Oh, and former players hired to run their program, Juwan Howard at UM and Penny Hardaway at Memphis have had a pretty good week. Van Exel still available?

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Remember when everyone was ready to run Mick Cronin outta town? Good times.

He’s a damn good coach and I’m happy to see him have success. No way UCLA was a play in 11 seed though. The committee fucked over the PAC 12 big time.

As far as UC, gotta love Cincy sports. Players hopping in the transfer portal at record pace. Bad blood. Possible NCAA “sanctions” incoming for a crappy team that hasn’t won a damn thing in decades. Cronin got out of dodge at the right time.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Good timing for some Bearcat Basketball chatter..... Anyone still buying Brannen? What the hell is going on down there in Clifton?

Meanwhile, Mick is heading to the Elite 8 in his second season at UCLA.

Oh, and former players hired to run their program, Juwan Howard at UM and Penny Hardaway at Memphis have had a pretty good week. Van Exel still available?

I belong to a UC board - so you can imagine how all of this is going over. I'll give my take - and it may be lengthy - so I apologize in advance.

I have zero issues with Coach John Brannen (CJB henceforth). There are kids all over college leaving programs this year because of the new rules allowing a free transfer. As it stands, there are expected to be roughly 2,000 kids in the portal this year (1,000 last year for reference). That means, of the 360-ish D-I schools, nearly every school will see an average of 5 kids transfer. That. Is. Insane. So, on the surface, I don't think this is a huge deal. Losing the class sucks, but there are going to be thousands of kids in the portal who, once they commit, can't transfer again. So - in a way, they might find kids who are just as good or more experienced than those leaving. Maybe not. Thing is - this isn't out of the norm for this year.

That being said - there are obviously some allegations leveled against CJB and his staff. The players leaving have all complained. However, when you look at the list of complaints, it's fairly laughable. Practices were "too hard". They weren't allowed to wear jewelry or do-rags in meetings. Parents couldn't be involved in the program - mom couldn't supply orange slices at half-time, I guess. Some were expecting early playing time and didn't get it. The list goes on, but the complaints are far from serious. It doesn't help that it does appear a few of the parents are a bit "too" involved with their kids at this level. They need to learn to backoff and let the coaches coach. IF they think they can land at a top tier program and be 'team mom' they have a very rude awakening coming and it will short-circuit their kids' career.

There is some instance of where a staff member, or CJB himself, has bad mouthed some players to other players on the team. Not smart. There is a rumor that a staff member degraded Harvey to another recruit, which got back to the team as well. Not a great look, but honestly probably not terribly out of the norm - nor is it really an offence to fire. There are also some complaints that CJB and staff did not really take into account the isolation that was brought on by COVID and should have been more flexible with the program in these trying times. Again - probably not a great thing to have happen, but not something you are going to ring up a coach for - especially a year after winning the league title.

The AD John Cunningham (ADJC forthwith) did not hire CJB, Bohn did and then left for USC. There have been rumors that CJB and ADJC don't get along and have very different personalities. I think this year tanked for a number of reasons. Some may be attributed to CJB and his staff - some are attributed to where Cronin and Staff left the program after bolting for UCLA. When CJB arrived he had Cumberland and Scott and Williams. His approach was to build around them for a year and compete or the AAC title and NCAA's. The roster was going to need an overhaul because Cronin landed ZERO impact recruits prior to leaving, and the Soph/Jr class on last years' team consisted of Williams and MamaDou Diarra - who is best served as a backup at best.

So, basically, it was Williams and no one else worth much in 2 full recruiting cycles. This is important because when they went all in for 2019/2020 that meant that 2020-2021 was going to be very, very lean. Williams is not Cumberland and Vogt, while good early in 2019/2020 - could not replicate that. That meant a TON of playing time for guys who either had 1 year, or ZERO years of college experience. When you look at Houston - they have a rotation that includes THREE 5th year Sr's, a 4 year Sr, a Red-shirt Jr, and a True top 50 player transfer from Kansas who is also a Jr. Then you look at UC - FR, FR, SO, SR, FR, SO, JR - and people wonder why they got pounded by 40.

The poor season, that mass transfer, and then the rumors from those kids leaving - all put together in motion a move by the AD to fire CJB. The problem is - he didn't do anything for cause to be fired. He's owed roughly just over $5MM for his buyout. UC doesn't have a big-time donor to step up and cover this, and UC doesn't have the money themselves. So, they started an investigation to find "For cause". For weeks rumors flew, but no word came from UC. Last week, that concluded - no word on what they found. The rumor is - they found nothing. So, they bring in an outside firm. Now the rumor is they will hit CJB with the CARA rules violation. This means, he had them practicing more than allowed by NCAA standards. It's a crap finding because nearly 100% of NCAA coaches manipulate this rule. Hell, Huggins talks about it in his book - starting practices and then half-way through re-setting the clock because the 1st half didn't count as it wasn't good enough.

By going public with the inquiry and the accusations leveled by ADJC - he's basically gone nuclear against CJB and trying to fire him and not pay him. He's completely hamstrung the program from recruiting in the most fertile transfer market in NCAA history - all the while not assuring that CJB will ever be fired for cause - and now almost assuredly will sue UC to not only get his full buy-out, but for defamation and other issues by dragging his name, and his staff, though this ordeal causing irreparable harm and lost future wages. Basically, it really seems that ADJC has made this personal and is playing a high-stakes game of chicken using the Basketball program - which is unconscionable, in my opinion.

Ultimately, I think this ends with CJB being fired - I don't see how he can return at this point unless the AD is fired. Whether anyone thinks CJB should be fired, or not, really irrelevant at this point. Leadership from the President of UC to the AD have absolutely FUBAR'd this entire situation. The program is a dumpster fire at this point. If the AD doesn't have a home-run hire lined up (and if he does, and it comes out he had this lined up before "finding" cause to fire CJB - that is not going to bode well for UC in court) to ensure this program is back on track - or the President may end up following the AD, who will ultimately follow the coach - all out the door.

It's. A. Mess.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I belong to a UC board - so you can imagine how all of this is going over. I'll give my take - and it may be lengthy - so I apologize in advance.

I have zero issues with Coach John Brannen (CJB henceforth). There are kids all over college leaving programs this year because of the new rules allowing a free transfer. As it stands, there are expected to be roughly 2,000 kids in the portal this year (1,000 last year for reference). That means, of the 360-ish D-I schools, nearly every school will see an average of 5 kids transfer. That. Is. Insane. So, on the surface, I don't think this is a huge deal. Losing the class sucks, but there are going to be thousands of kids in the portal who, once they commit, can't transfer again. So - in a way, they might find kids who are just as good or more experienced than those leaving. Maybe not. Thing is - this isn't out of the norm for this year.

That being said - there are obviously some allegations leveled against CJB and his staff. The players leaving have all complained. However, when you look at the list of complaints, it's fairly laughable. Practices were "too hard". They weren't allowed to wear jewelry or do-rags in meetings. Parents couldn't be involved in the program - mom couldn't supply orange slices at half-time, I guess. Some were expecting early playing time and didn't get it. The list goes on, but the complaints are far from serious. It doesn't help that it does appear a few of the parents are a bit "too" involved with their kids at this level. They need to learn to backoff and let the coaches coach. IF they think they can land at a top tier program and be 'team mom' they have a very rude awakening coming and it will short-circuit their kids' career.

There is some instance of where a staff member, or CJB himself, has bad mouthed some players to other players on the team. Not smart. There is a rumor that a staff member degraded Harvey to another recruit, which got back to the team as well. Not a great look, but honestly probably not terribly out of the norm - nor is it really an offence to fire. There are also some complaints that CJB and staff did not really take into account the isolation that was brought on by COVID and should have been more flexible with the program in these trying times. Again - probably not a great thing to have happen, but not something you are going to ring up a coach for - especially a year after winning the league title.

The AD John Cunningham (ADJC forthwith) did not hire CJB, Bohn did and then left for USC. There have been rumors that CJB and ADJC don't get along and have very different personalities. I think this year tanked for a number of reasons. Some may be attributed to CJB and his staff - some are attributed to where Cronin and Staff left the program after bolting for UCLA. When CJB arrived he had Cumberland and Scott and Williams. His approach was to build around them for a year and compete or the AAC title and NCAA's. The roster was going to need an overhaul because Cronin landed ZERO impact recruits prior to leaving, and the Soph/Jr class on last years' team consisted of Williams and MamaDou Diarra - who is best served as a backup at best.

So, basically, it was Williams and no one else worth much in 2 full recruiting cycles. This is important because when they went all in for 2019/2020 that meant that 2020-2021 was going to be very, very lean. Williams is not Cumberland and Vogt, while good early in 2019/2020 - could not replicate that. That meant a TON of playing time for guys who either had 1 year, or ZERO years of college experience. When you look at Houston - they have a rotation that includes THREE 5th year Sr's, a 4 year Sr, a Red-shirt Jr, and a True top 50 player transfer from Kansas who is also a Jr. Then you look at UC - FR, FR, SO, SR, FR, SO, JR - and people wonder why they got pounded by 40.

The poor season, that mass transfer, and then the rumors from those kids leaving - all put together in motion a move by the AD to fire CJB. The problem is - he didn't do anything for cause to be fired. He's owed roughly just over $5MM for his buyout. UC doesn't have a big-time donor to step up and cover this, and UC doesn't have the money themselves. So, they started an investigation to find "For cause". For weeks rumors flew, but no word came from UC. Last week, that concluded - no word on what they found. The rumor is - they found nothing. So, they bring in an outside firm. Now the rumor is they will hit CJB with the CARA rules violation. This means, he had them practicing more than allowed by NCAA standards. It's a crap finding because nearly 100% of NCAA coaches manipulate this rule. Hell, Huggins talks about it in his book - starting practices and then half-way through re-setting the clock because the 1st half didn't count as it wasn't good enough.

By going public with the inquiry and the accusations leveled by ADJC - he's basically gone nuclear against CJB and trying to fire him and not pay him. He's completely hamstrung the program from recruiting in the most fertile transfer market in NCAA history - all the while not assuring that CJB will ever be fired for cause - and now almost assuredly will sue UC to not only get his full buy-out, but for defamation and other issues by dragging his name, and his staff, though this ordeal causing irreparable harm and lost future wages. Basically, it really seems that ADJC has made this personal and is playing a high-stakes game of chicken using the Basketball program - which is unconscionable, in my opinion.

Ultimately, I think this ends with CJB being fired - I don't see how he can return at this point unless the AD is fired. Whether anyone thinks CJB should be fired, or not, really irrelevant at this point. Leadership from the President of UC to the AD have absolutely FUBAR'd this entire situation. The program is a dumpster fire at this point. If the AD doesn't have a home-run hire lined up (and if he does, and it comes out he had this lined up before "finding" cause to fire CJB - that is not going to bode well for UC in court) to ensure this program is back on track - or the President may end up following the AD, who will ultimately follow the coach - all out the door.

It's. A. Mess.

Wow. I don't know anything about UC basketball, but I feel like I do now. Well written and explained. Nice job. Felt like I was reading a professional writers expert analysis.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Wow. I don't know anything about UC basketball, but I feel like I do now. Well written and explained. Nice job. Felt like I was reading a professional writers expert analysis.

Thanks. There are going to be those who only blame the coach for putting everyone in this situation. That's their right, but I don't think that tells the whole story of how this is being handled at this point in time.

There may be some that want to blame the AD for doing this, but again - I think that only tells a part of the story.

Same with those blaming the kids for not being "tough" enough to handled a top tier D-1 school's practices, a tough coach, etc...

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Kids, in a pandemic year, had a really rough time adjusting. The staff did not adjust to this well at all - and I think thus you have the friction that set in motion most of what transpired.

Then you add in the AD who has completely, in my opinion, FUBAR'd this whole thing - and now you have a program in utter turmoil.

I don't pretend to know how it should have been handled, but people I follow who do this kind of thing for a living all have questioned why it has been handled this way. That tells me something - it wasn't handled well at all. Especially when this kind of thing happens in college more often than not - there is a playbook on how to handle these exact situations.

As it stands, it will likely be the end of this week before an announcement - likely CJB either resigning with a lower buyout, or fired for cause with no buy-out (legal process to commence from CJB and lawyers, no doubt). But it will be another 2-3 weeks before they likely get another coach, meaning it will be nearing mid-April before this program can recruit again. Considering how wide open the portal is this year with the free transfer option, this whole mess is costing UC valuable time and potential recruiting - setting the program back (potentially) years in the process.

 

[cincygrad]

Good write-up and I appreciate your thoughts.

I think there are some structural issues with the university and the program. You mentioned the fact that Mick didn't have any impact players coming into the program late in his tenure. I don't think this was a Mick problem.... The guy has been able to recruit his entire career. That was one of the reasons Pitino wanted him so bad. The admin was choking the program off.... They weren't paying Mick and they weren't investing in the program beyond the arena renovation. They were daring Mick to leave for years and I'm sure this played against him on the recruiting trail. The perception that the university doesn't care about basket ball anymore certainly didn't change when they hired a D2 coach.

As for CJB.... I get that the allegations look silly on paper. But I don't think its just a matter of players being soft. Huggs was and is a tough coach. Mick was and is a tough coach. But something this guy is doing is making him seem phony to the players and they don't like it. If he's giving inconsistent messages and ragging on guys behind their back, he's not doing a good job. I don't see how you can keep him... How will he recruit with this reputation? They desperately need a rich donor to help with a buy-out. We're heading to Tony Yates land..... Program is going to be completely irrelevant.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Good write-up and I appreciate your thoughts.

I think there are some structural issues with the university and the program. You mentioned the fact that Mick didn't have any impact players coming into the program late in his tenure. I don't think this was a Mick problem.... The guy has been able to recruit his entire career. That was one of the reasons Pitino wanted him so bad. The admin was choking the program off.... They weren't paying Mick and they weren't investing in the program beyond the arena renovation. They were daring Mick to leave for years and I'm sure this played against him on the recruiting trail. The perception that the university doesn't care about basket ball anymore certainly didn't change when they hired a D2 coach.

As for CJB.... I get that the allegations look silly on paper. But I don't think its just a matter of players being soft. Huggs was and is a tough coach. Mick was and is a tough coach. But something this guy is doing is making him seem phony to the players and they don't like it. If he's giving inconsistent messages and ragging on guys behind their back, he's not doing a good job. I don't see how you can keep him... How will he recruit with this reputation? They desperately need a rich donor to help with a buy-out. We're heading to Tony Yates land..... Program is going to be completely irrelevant.

Very fair assessments.

For Mick - it's hard to say with any real certainty because he always found guys and coached them up for 4 years. So, had he stayed, they may have been good players under him, but under Brannen, they simply did not fit at all. The only one to transfer out from those last 2 classes and make an impact at a comparable level is Logan Johnson in the MWC with St. Mary's. Everyone else is way below the AAC in the MAC or at Georgia state, etc. So, I think you are right in where Cronin wasn't getting the full support of the administration - especially as football was starting to take off under Luke. I also think had those guys stayed, Mick likely would have won with them. I think that, in terms of complaints about Mick's ability to recruit higher level of scorers is where Brannen came in and none of those guys fit that model of offense.

Agreed that the staff has more internal issues than probably we know about. I think there is a lot of he said this, but then he acts like that behind closed doors. I add the pandemic as an outlier because - without being able to bond off-court, it's hard for any of the Freshmen to really know what Brannen is like. I think it ended up being a perfect storm of a guy who is very demanding, not having much chance to bond outside of the game due to isolation rules, a staff that was unwavering in their approach during the pandemic when flexibility was absolutely required, etc...etc... At the end of the day, the coaches own all of that because that is what they get paid for. Was any of it Fire-able? No. Can the school choose to move on? Of course. The question at the crux of this is the $5M buyout that the school can't afford.

 

[cincygrad]

Its also relevant that this year is going to be crazy on the transfer market and the pandemic did hurt some teams more than others.

You have blue-chippers transferring out of UNC and Duke..... And now Virginia has two young players hitting the wire. It's not like Roy Williams, Mike K, and Tony Bennet are all of a sudden a group of bums. It's just going to be a weird year.

If that's the case..... We're judging him all wrong given the circumstances of the year, then the University if really handling this wrong. They needed to do a better job of damage control and sticking up for the coach.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Its also relevant that this year is going to be crazy on the transfer market and the pandemic did hurt some teams more than others.

You have blue-chippers transferring out of UNC and Duke..... And now Virginia has two young players hitting the wire. It's not like Roy Williams, Mike K, and Tony Bennet are all of a sudden a group of bums. It's just going to be a weird year.

If that's the case..... We're judging him all wrong given the circumstances of the year, then the University if really handling this wrong. They needed to do a better job of damage control and sticking up for the coach.

THIS!

This has been my biggest point over on the UC board I'm on - Look, many guys are struggling (fans) because UC had a really bad year kind of unexpectedly, but not really if you are being honest about where the program was going into this year. That said, no one saw the early losses piling up, and then when UC was the first major school to see 5-6 guys hit the portal - I think it became a knee-jerk reaction, and I think the AD started the ball rolling on trying to figure out why/if there was a bigger reason. Once that ball started, it wasn't stopping, especially since it appears that the AD and the coach don't get along (Can we say shades of Cronin/Bohn again?).

Now, I feel the AD is doubling down because word is, he's already reached out to the transfering players and asked them all to re-consider assuming Brannen is fired. Word is, several are interested in returning if that is the case. To me, this is damning. The AD should not be "recruiting" players. His job is to simply fact-find, and it doesn't appear, at this point, he's found anything. However, he's too far along in the process to back down now without risking his own job. So, he does what all great poker players do when backed into a corner they can't simply "fold" on - they double down.

Now, with time and perspective - we are seeing kids transfer at a rate like never before. Kids are transferring from programs that just made the NCAA, just won a conference title, are coached by K, Cal, Izzo, Williams...etc..etc...if winning isn't keeping kids at a major blue-blood. If HOF coaches aren't keeping kids at major blue bloods, if making the tournament and winning conferences isn't keeping kids at schools....Why should ANYONE be shocked that, after a really rough year, a team that is full of inexperienced kids who really struggled in their first ever year away from home, isolated from anyone, under a demanding coach - look to transfer? I mean - it's the very definition of WHY kids transfer.

I'm convinced at this point, they will fire Brannen, cite CARA rules and try to avoid paying him. It's such a poor decision because you could alienate other coaches who realize that if they run afoul with the AD, they easily could be jettisoned for the same "reasons". Again - if Brannen has to go - fine. I'm not saying all of this because I want him to stay (though I have zero issues with him and how he runs the program to this point - other than I'd like to see him keep some guys...lol) but the entire way this was handled was just poor, poor, poor.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Oh, and as for NVE - he doesn't have a degree. While I don't believe it is an exact NCAA requirement, nearly all schools require coaches to have their college degree.

NVE also has almost no actual coaching experience. He's been around the NBA in various positions, but none of them in an actual coaching capacity. Also, while his name may ring bells for former UC fans - most recruits are not really going to know who he is.

Penny at least had AAU coaching chops and developed a strong relationship with AAU coaches all across the country while doing so. Memphis is also very much like UC football in terms of basketball (A lot of high level recruits and 2nd tier recruits that Memphis can land that are still above station for the AAC - just like UC is cleaning up in Ohio after 2nd tier players don't land at OSU, 'Baman, etc...).

My assumption is that this will end this week, and a new coach will be found. My money would be on Archie Miller. Knows the region. Has high level recruiting experience. Has a good coaching background - he recruited very well at Dayton and won there - and did the same at Indiana - though he won regular season games, he struggled to push Indiana back into that top tier. He's young and has a ton of experience in general, and I think after running a P5, a place like UC could easily end up being a destination job for him.

Also, his buyout will allow UC to pay him a bit less in the first few years if they do have to pay Brannen. They could work out a deal where he's able to take less, spend more on assistants and then after year 4 or 5, his salary will get a nice bump.

 

[cincygrad]

New coach - Wes Miller

At first glance, I wasn't overly enthusiastic. But after doing some reading and giving it some thought, I think its the right move. Though I was supportive of the idea of a Nick Van Exel or Erik Martin coming in to take over the program, the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. It's sort of strange and unhealthy that this program is still obsessed with Bob Huggins and those affiliated with Bob Huggins. In the 16 seasons that Bob Huggins coached the Bearcats, he went to one final four. His great teams of the 90s were constant disappointments in the tourney. And he played relatively average competition in conference play. And he hasn't really won shit at WV either. Yet, our fans are obsessed with the "glory days" of Huggins and desperate to hang on to his legacy.

I'm okay with new directions... I hope we got it right this time.

 

[Cincyfan78]

New coach - Wes Miller

At first glance, I wasn't overly enthusiastic. But after doing some reading and giving it some thought, I think its the right move. Though I was supportive of the idea of a Nick Van Exel or Erik Martin coming in to take over the program, the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. It's sort of strange and unhealthy that this program is still obsessed with Bob Huggins and those affiliated with Bob Huggins. In the 16 seasons that Bob Huggins coached the Bearcats, he went to one final four. His great teams of the 90s were constant disappointments in the tourney. And he played relatively average competition in conference play. And he hasn't really won shit at WV either. Yet, our fans are obsessed with the "glory days" of Huggins and desperate to hang on to his legacy.

I'm okay with new directions... I hope we got it right this time.

If Martin were in this position 2 years ago - I think he's the guy. The program is stable, coming off 9 straight NCAA's, you have Jarron returning, Scott returning, and a guy that knows how to recruit the mid-west. For a 1st time HC, especially at a Major D-1 program - that's about as cushy as you can get for landing in a really good situation to be in for your 1st time.

Fast forward 2 years - and the program is a bit of a mess. You have 4 scholarship players, 3 kids who may or may not return, no signees, no commits, turmoil in the Athletic department on how the Brannen situation was handled, and a lot of unknows. On top, you're looking at rebuilding up a program from near scratch. Not ideal for a 1st time guy who's never done it before. Miller has done this before. Maybe not with his back to the wall like this, but he's been through a re-build, as dealt with the administration portion - has shown he not only has what it takes to build a program, but can do it and win.

If you removed Martin's UC portion of his resume off - and he was just a guy who played at Ohio U or Buffalo - Hardly anyone would be clamoring for him based on his resume as a coach. Wes took that big risk of taking on a lower level job, Martin has not. That experience has lead him to UC where his exposure to all the things he encountered at UNC-G directly correlates to what is needed at UC in the present.

Love our former players - and one day maybe someone will have the kind of resume that matches up with UC's needs when the spot is open - but, IMO, that match was not good enough when you look at what Miller has been able to do and how it fits exactly what UC needs right now.

 

[Wamu]

New coach - Wes Miller

At first glance, I wasn't overly enthusiastic. But after doing some reading and giving it some thought, I think its the right move. Though I was supportive of the idea of a Nick Van Exel or Erik Martin coming in to take over the program, the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. It's sort of strange and unhealthy that this program is still obsessed with Bob Huggins and those affiliated with Bob Huggins. In the 16 seasons that Bob Huggins coached the Bearcats, he went to one final four. His great teams of the 90s were constant disappointments in the tourney. And he played relatively average competition in conference play. And he hasn't really won shit at WV either. Yet, our fans are obsessed with the "glory days" of Huggins and desperate to hang on to his legacy.

I'm okay with new directions... I hope we got it right this time.

Huggins has been at WV for 14 years. He has 10 tourney trips. It's been 16 years since he coached at Cincinnati. In those 16 years the Bearcats have had 9 tourney trips.

He put Bearcat basketball back on the map, going to the tourney 14 straight seasons. Before Huggins took the job Cincy hadn't gone to the tourney the previous 14 seasons.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Huggins has been at WV for 14 years. He has 10 tourney trips. It's been 16 years since he coached at Cincinnati. In those 16 years the Bearcats have had 9 tourney trips.

He put Bearcat basketball back on the map, going to the tourney 14 straight seasons. Before Huggins took the job Cincy hadn't gone to the tourney the previous 14 seasons.

To be fair, the year Andy Kennedy coached, they should have made it.

Then it was a complete gut job for 4 years - I think year 5 is when UC finally made it back, and made it every year under Cronin til he left. They were on the verge last year of getting in - and did win their conference...this year became an unmitigated disaster and it's looking like another re-build. Thankfully, the portal and the new waiver will allow teams to rebuild much quicker than before.

I like the hire. Martin would have been a feel good story, but I feel with all the turmoil of the past 2+ years under Brannen, bringing in a guy who's never had to deal with being a head coach, let along rebuilding a program, would have been setting him up to fail.

 

[cincygrad]

Huggins has been at WV for 14 years. He has 10 tourney trips. It's been 16 years since he coached at Cincinnati. In those 16 years the Bearcats have had 9 tourney trips.

He put Bearcat basketball back on the map, going to the tourney 14 straight seasons. Before Huggins took the job Cincy hadn't gone to the tourney the previous 14 seasons.

I like Huggins and I agree that he put the Bearcats back on the map. Created a program. A culture. If tourney births are your measuring stick, Huggins is highly successful. His teams underachieved in the tourney in Cincinnati. His teams at West Virginia have won one conference tournament in 14 years. No regular season championships. Upon hiring, if you told WVU fans that Huggins would coach in one final four, win won conference tourney championship and no conference championships, do you think they would be happy?

I don't have a problem with Huggins legacy in Cincinnati. But he isn't successful enough coach to treat him as a god. Our fans continue to worship the guy. He's not coming back. Why do we need to stick to his coaching tree?

BTW - I think. you can easily make the argument that UNC made a big mistake by only considering former UNC players. And Duke will likely make the same mistake. There is an argument to be made that those programs should seek the very best coach available - Even if they don't have prior ties. And I think this is the case for UC as well.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I like Huggins and I agree that he put the Bearcats back on the map. Created a program. A culture. If tourney births are your measuring stick, Huggins is highly successful. His teams underachieved in the tourney in Cincinnati. His teams at West Virginia have won one conference tournament in 14 years. No regular season championships. Upon hiring, if you told WVU fans that Huggins would coach in one final four, win won conference tourney championship and no conference championships, do you think they would be happy?

I don't have a problem with Huggins legacy in Cincinnati. But he isn't successful enough coach to treat him as a god. Our fans continue to worship the guy. He's not coming back. Why do we need to stick to his coaching tree?

BTW - I think. you can easily make the argument that UNC made a big mistake by only considering former UNC players. And Duke will likely make the same mistake. There is an argument to be made that those programs should seek the very best coach available - Even if they don't have prior ties. And I think this is the case for UC as well.

Being a former player should be an added bonus - it shouldn't be a part of the resume.

 

[Wamu]

I like Huggins and I agree that he put the Bearcats back on the map. Created a program. A culture. If tourney births are your measuring stick, Huggins is highly successful. His teams underachieved in the tourney in Cincinnati. His teams at West Virginia have won one conference tournament in 14 years. No regular season championships. Upon hiring, if you told WVU fans that Huggins would coach in one final four, win won conference tourney championship and no conference championships, do you think they would be happy?

I don't have a problem with Huggins legacy in Cincinnati. But he isn't successful enough coach to treat him as a god. Our fans continue to worship the guy. He's not coming back. Why do we need to stick to his coaching tree?

BTW - I think. you can easily make the argument that UNC made a big mistake by only considering former UNC players. And Duke will likely make the same mistake. There is an argument to be made that those programs should seek the very best coach available - Even if they don't have prior ties. And I think this is the case for UC as well.

I'll sum him up this way. Like I already mentioned he's taken WV to the tourney 10 times in 14 years. You have to go all the way back to the 1981-82 season to equal those 10 tourney trips by Huggins. 10 trips in 14 years is a helluva lot better than 10 trips in 39 years.

At Cincy. 14 tourney trips. Before him the Bearcats had a total of 10 tourney trips dating back to the '57-'58 season. From '77-'78 to the '88-'89 zero 20 wins seasons. Huggins first year at Cincy he won 20 games.

Huggins never had a losing season at Cincy. From the 1977-78 season to the 1988-89 season (one year before he got there) they had 7 losing season.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'll sum him up this way. Like I already mentioned he's taken WV to the tourney 10 times in 14 years. You have to go all the way back to the 1981-82 season to equal those 10 tourney trips by Huggins. 10 trips in 14 years is a helluva lot better than 10 trips in 39 years.

At Cincy. 14 tourney trips. Before him the Bearcats had a total of 10 tourney trips dating back to the '57-'58 season. From '77-'78 to the '88-'89 zero 20 wins seasons. Huggins first year at Cincy he won 20 games.

Huggins never had a losing season at Cincy. From the 1977-78 season to the 1988-89 season (one year before he got there) they had 7 losing season.

He'd still be at UC if he hadn't got pulled over for DUI - multiple times. Or ran the programs' APR into the ground so much that when Cronin took over they had to beg the NCAA not to impose sanctions and give Mick a year to start cleaning things up.

I love Hugs, but he was his own worst enemy at the end of his UC tenure.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

People are being silly about this hire. Wes Miller is by and large a highly sought after up and coming candidate. What he was able to do at UNC-Greensboro is impressive considering what he inherited. UNC likely would’ve pulled the trigger on him, if not for the tough sell of hiring Greensboro’s coach to replace a HOFer. Hence the Hubert Davis placeholder hire who was already on Roy’s staff.

Screw hiring a UC guy. Just get the right guy for the job. I could easily see Miller being here 4 years, building the program back to respectability, then getting poached by a Blue Blood.

 

[cincygrad]

I'll sum him up this way. Like I already mentioned he's taken WV to the tourney 10 times in 14 years. You have to go all the way back to the 1981-82 season to equal those 10 tourney trips by Huggins. 10 trips in 14 years is a helluva lot better than 10 trips in 39 years.

At Cincy. 14 tourney trips. Before him the Bearcats had a total of 10 tourney trips dating back to the '57-'58 season. From '77-'78 to the '88-'89 zero 20 wins seasons. Huggins first year at Cincy he won 20 games.

Huggins never had a losing season at Cincy. From the 1977-78 season to the 1988-89 season (one year before he got there) they had 7 losing season.

Again, I won't take away from Huggins ability to run a top 25 program. He can clearly do it. I will say that he walked into a situation at UC that was better than the prior 20 years - They finally built an on-campus arena and were ready to invest in the program. That matters.

I was at UC as a student in the early 90s. I loved Bob Huggins. Still do. But he never got enough out of his most talented teams.

My point here is that the Huggins era is over. But our fans will never move on. It's an obsession.