OT: 70 Years Ago Today

[evolver115]

On June 4th, 1942 the course of the war between Japan and the United States was forever altered in a trackless part of the Pacific ocean north of Midway Island.

Four out of the six Japanese aircraft carriers that were responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor were sunk by US naval forces. Japan and her navy never truly recovered from this dramatic defeat, which led to her ultimate defeat.

This is a very important, yet often overlooked historical event.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

I'm glad you brought this up, evolver.

It was Japan's first naval defeat in centuries (I want to say 1500 years? Can't remember for sure).

Japan had set out not just to occupy Midway, but to finish what it failed to do at Pearl Harbor - destroy USA's carriers.

Here is the first part of a really good episode that covers the battle:

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

Oh...and I forgot to mention the US navy was outnumbered and outgunned 2-1.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Oh...and I forgot to mention the US navy was outnumbered and outgunned 2-1.

Yep, and it was pure luck the Japanese commanders debated over what type of bombs to load and they got caught with their pants down and the planes loaded sitting on decks. The few bombs we landed set off all theirs and blew the fuck out of those 4 carriers. The Japs had already shredded the few runs our army air forces made at them and blew through some of our defenses in their initial attacks.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

Yep, and it was pure luck the Japanese commanders debated over what type of bombs to load and they got caught with their pants down and the planes loaded sitting on decks. The few bombs we landed set off all theirs and blew the fuck out of those 4 carriers. The Japs had already shredded the few runs our army air forces made at them and blew through some of our defenses in their initial attacks.

Kind of like a hockey game...we made good on our chances and they did not. Simple as that.

 

[evolver115]

All good points, guys. The most amazing fact from the whole incredible situation to me is how we found out where the Japanese fleet was going to be.

As I'm sure you both know, our naval intelligence sent out false information stating that the Midway outpost was suffering from fresh water issues, thereby tricking Japan into revealing their coded name for Midway, which subsequently allowed our Navy to know where the next attack was coming.

American ingenuity! :USA:

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

All good points, guys. The most amazing fact from the whole incredible situation to me is how we found out where the Japanese fleet was going to be.

As I'm sure you both know, our naval intelligence sent out false information stating that the Midway outpost was suffering from fresh water issues, thereby tricking Japan into revealing their coded name for Midway, which subsequently allowed our Navy to know where the next attack was coming.

We had already cracked the Japanese code...we just didn't know what target "AF" stood for. The United States knew Midway was a potential target, but they also feared an invasion of the Western United States and/or Alaska.

Read/heard somewhere that the US Government secretly feared a Japanese invasion force could have gotten as far as Chicago before they could be stopped. Not sure how much to believe of that.

 

[beantownmaniac]

All good points, guys. The most amazing fact from the whole incredible situation to me is how we found out where the Japanese fleet was going to be.

As I'm sure you both know, our naval intelligence sent out false information stating that the Midway outpost was suffering from fresh water issues, thereby tricking Japan into revealing their coded name for Midway, which subsequently allowed our Navy to know where the next attack was coming.

American ingenuity! :USA:

Yep. America wasn't sure if the major attack would be in the Aleutian Ilse's (although a small Japanese force did capture an island there which we took back the following spring I believe).

 

[evolver115]

Just incredible to think about what might have happened if our Navy hadn't duped the Japanese into revealing their next target.

If we had just waited for the next attack to come, and then reacted... It would have been very likely that Japan could have retained the upper hand and crippled what remained of our Pacific fleet.

Very sobering to think how close we might have come to defeat, if not for some sly US Navy code breakers.

 

[wings-pens2166]

Oh...and I forgot to mention the US navy was outnumbered and outgunned 2-1.

FUCK YEAH...that's how we roll in the U.S. Navy

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

FUCK YEAH...that's how we roll in the U.S. Navy

The US Navy is the Nick Lidstrom of the military...breaking up 2-on-1 rushes since the country began.

 

[Wingingit]

Halsey's confidence and Nimitz listening, which brought Spurance into the line while Halsey was laid-up, ended up being a strange intangible of the battle.

Halsey (by most historians belief) would have gone balls-to-the-wall after the Jap's, but Spruance backed off which drew the Jap's out, ultimately making their line too thin and unprotected by counter air cover, ended up looking like genius, but it was pure happenstance.

 

[evolver115]

Bump


D-Day in France usually overshadows this event which took place two days and two years earlier, but is no less significant. Both events are probably two of the most important dates of American, and World history of the 20th century.

 

[mattola]

I get so fascinated by WWII imagery. moreso than any other war.

 

[Wingingit]

I get so fascinated by WWII imagery. moreso than any other war.

I have a whole box full of pictures from my dad, I've got to start working them into digital images.

I take very very slow steps working with them, I have several of them with the remains of the Reichstag, and what was left of Berlin.

 

[elocomotive]

I have a whole box full of pictures from my dad, I've got to start working them into digital images.

I take very very slow steps working with them, I have several of them with the remains of the Reichstag, and what was left of Berlin.

Very cool. If you scan them, post a few for us.

If you guys haven't read it, "Why the Allies Won" by Richard Overy (that was a fun name growing up I'll bet!) is a really excellent read. I think as Americans and with much time having passed, many today look at our victory as inevitable. It looks at how close the Allies were to losing and why we didn't.

 

[DevilishWon]

If you ever read the book Incredible Victory its a great read on Midway.

BTW when I read the title I thought it was bossman's birthday...he is old as dirt!

 

[Wingingit]

Very cool. If you scan them, post a few for us.

If you guys haven't read it, "Why the Allies Won" by Richard Overy (that was a fun name growing up I'll bet!) is a really excellent read. I think as Americans and with much time having passed, many today look at our victory as inevitable. It looks at how close the Allies were to losing and why we didn't.

I've been trying to get them to layout, scared as hell at damaging them furthur, when I do, I sure will. ( I will not trust anyone else with them)

Plan on setting up a digital camera with a macro lens, issue is the pictures are very small and rolled-up. Several attempts so far have been either snapped pictures or uneven shots where they just don't come out.

 

[evolver115]