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Skin'EmAll

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If we are going to speak in absolutes with Griffin, who didn't request to be here....then logically you must also reason that Cousins always choked. He always did.
Only when he was surrounded with great talent, did he make the playoffs. Then his greed forced the organization to franchise him twice, costing us the opportunity to upgrade in other areas.
He always choked, was greedy, couldn't win the big games, sucked in the red zone. He went to the vikings, who are loaded offensively, and continued to suck. Yet, some fanboys here, blame his struggles on the vikings defense??? No, he sucks, when does passing for 400yds and 3TDs and still losing make you the GOAT??
 

Stymietee

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I can. because one year doesn’t make a career. For what we paid, he was a complete and total failure.
I appreciate your perspective and support it. Logically, expanding the conversation of a particular thing in order to incorporate unrelated subject matter, seems to me, a way to square a circle that doesn't require squaring. It is possible to allow for the promise of his 2012 outstanding season AND express the disappointment that followed. Two things being true at the same time. (Ex: She was great during that first year that we began dating, but now that we're living together... ) Note the conjunction "but."
 

Sportster 72

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I saw a bad ending for Griffin after the Minnesota game. That's the game he had the 76 yd TD run in. During the post game presser he stepped to the mic and the first thing he said before taking a question. "Maybe I should've run out of bounds huh." that was in reference to the Atl game where he get knocked out and where he should've went out of bounds or threw the ball away on that particular play, but didn't n got lit up. I knew then he didn't understand situational football. Griffin also refused to protect himself as a QB and he paid the price for that several times as well.

And while I agree with you, KC scared Griffin. I don't see that necessarily as something out of the ordinary. It's kinda the nature of sports. Starter goes down, back up comes in and plays well, suddenly the starter isn't the man anymore. What I think really pissed Griffin off was the love Cousins got from the fan-base. First for the relief pitching victory against Baltimore and then the starting victory against Cleveland. Adding insult to injury Cousins also broke Griffin's rookie record for most passing yards for a 1st time starter. Sure Griffin was scraed Cuz could step in and take his spot, but he was pissed because of the love Cousins got from the fans. Plus lots of fans started saying the Redskins had 2 legit starters not 1 and that pissed him off too. In hindsight fans were giving both Griff n Cuz too much credit at the time. But where Cousins would go on to improve and sharpen his QB skills eventually proving that fan prediction correct about himself. Griff's best days were already behind him.

The Skins in general were also extremely lucky in 2012. In 2012 Griffin by himself had 12 fumbles. Opponents only recovered 2. 2 Redskins WRs Garcon and Josh Morgan scored TDs for the Skins on Griffin fumbles. As a team the Skins had 26 fumbles that year and only lost 6 and just 1 went for a TD for Skins opponents. How many times do you think a team has fumbled 26 times in a season, only lost 6 and scored more TDs, 2, off their own fumbles then their opponents did, 1 TD. Can't be a lot of times I imagine.

Far as Snyder n Griffin teaming up n calling shots, yeah. that was the final kiss of death to Robert's career as a starting QB. Telling Shanny he wanted to be a QB like Peyton Manning. Heh. I bet Shanny thought to himself. Yeah, I'd like as well you stupid, triflin mothafuckers. Saying it is npt gonna make it so. .

Was Griffin a complete bust......I dunno. I'm not sure it makes a difference. Of one thing I have no doubt. He was a fuckin hard-head. And like all our father's told us. A hard head makes for a soft ass. Or a cat who couldn't a grape if they fell on it.

t

s
Breed this is an excellent post. You drilled down way further than I did. A complete bust ... no.

When I saw the offense Kyle put in for him I hoped he would be what Lamar has been or at least somewhat like that while learning the position.

As you said his hard headedness and Dan's stupidity ruined any chance of what might have been. It is a shame, for half a year he had me thinking I was wrong and we hit the trifecta.
 

skinsdad62

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If we are going to speak in absolutes with Griffin, who didn't request to be here....then logically you must also reason that Cousins always choked. He always did.
Only when he was surrounded with great talent, did he make the playoffs. Then his greed forced the organization to franchise him twice, costing us the opportunity to upgrade in other areas.
He always choked, was greedy, couldn't win the big games, sucked in the red zone. He went to the vikings, who are loaded offensively, and continued to suck. Yet, some fanboys here, blame his struggles on the vikings defense??? No, he sucks, when does passing for 400yds and 3TDs and still losing make you the GOAT??
his greed ? it couldnt be his Christianity couldnt stomach sex abuse central ? .

how many times has the FG blown wins ? hos defense give away wins in the last few seconds of a game ?

and please tell me about sonny surgensen and how he choked his ass all the way to the HOF ?

KC 's stats should tell you one thing , maybe he was doing his job and you need to look elsewhere
 

j_y19

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I appreciate your perspective and support it. Logically, expanding the conversation of a particular thing in order to incorporate unrelated subject matter, seems to me, a way to square a circle that doesn't require squaring. It is possible to allow for the promise of his 2012 outstanding season AND express the disappointment that followed. Two things being true at the same time. (Ex: She was great during that first year that we began dating, but now that we're living together... ) Note the conjunction "but."
Well, then why limit it to a season. How about just a game? By that logic, every QB that ever played here that had one good game could be considered outstanding? or, hell, I’m feeling generous, how about a series? That means we have been flush with outstanding QBs since forever! (Except for Haskins, not sure he ever had a good series…..)
s
s
 

reptec101

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Cousins >Heinicke
Heinicke>Griffin
Griffin>Shuler
Shuler>Haskins
:2cents:

For the record- none was/is gonna take this team to a SB. Every team in NFL has that knack at picking a certain position well in the draft. Be it QB, RB, WR etc... I'm not really certain if the Redskins even have a knack... it certainly ain't with QBs if they do. For them to have a great QB out of the draft will probably never happen. Cuz if they don't fuck up the pick during the draft.. they'll fuck it up after.
 

Stymietee

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Well, then why limit it to a season. How about just a game? By that logic, every QB that ever played here that had one good game could be considered outstanding? or, hell, I’m feeling generous, how about a series? That means we have been flush with outstanding QBs since forever! (Except for Haskins, not sure he ever had a good series…..)
s
s
You're NOT limiting it to a season, you're INCLUDING that season.

Beyond that you're just exaggerating into irrational claptrap on purpose, I hope, because what you're doing is funny, not logical.
 

Breed

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If we are going to speak in absolutes with Griffin, who didn't request to be here....then logically you must also reason that Cousins always choked. He always did Only when he was surrounded with great talent, did he make the playoffs. Then his greed forced the organization to franchise him twice, costing us the opportunity to upgrade in other areas. He always choked, was greedy, couldn't win the big games, sucked in the red zone. He went to the vikings, who are loaded offensively, and continued to suck. Yet, some fanboys here, blame his struggles on the vikings defense??? No, he sucks, when does passing for 400yds and 3TDs and still losing make you the GOAT??
I'm 158.3 perfect QB rating with you far as Cuz and choking goes. At least as it concerns his tenure with the Skins. My love/hate relationship with Cuz during the 2015 season. Morphed into a hate/hate thing at times during the 2016 season and I will break it down step by step, play by play if need be. With anyone over his habitual failures of the 2016 season starting with the 1st Dallas game, the 2nd Dallas game, the Arizona game and finally the 2nd NYG game. All games the Skins could've won and two that they should've won w/o question imo had Cuz played like the QB many here incorrectly believed him to be. This carried over into the 2017 season for a couple games, KC and Minny to be specific and 2017 also included arguably his finest games imo as a Redskin against Seattle though I'm sure many would say it was 2016 against Green Bay. But by 2017 the fire within had pretty much flamed out as I had resigned myself to the fact that Bruce Allen had fucked up the Cousins contract situation to the point of absolute absurdity and like or not. Cuz's tenure as a Redskin was coming to its final and ultimate conclusion. Though I have to say, his progression into being a QB capable of leading a flawed team (which the Skins certainly were) to a Super Bowl title was happening way too slow for me. So Cuz's departure wasn't the end all be all for me. I'd go as far to say the biggest regret I have concerning the Skins of that time was the injury to Alex Smith. Cuz as scary, boring, frustrating and irritating as he could be and he could be ALL those things, sometimes all at once. He is easily the winningest QB to ever take a snap in the Snyder Era. (Unless you wanna include Todd Collins 4 game run of 4-0 in 2007 which I do not)

Far as the Cousins contract goes though.

It wasn't Cousins greed that led to that. It was Allen's ineptitude via complete lack of foresight and general disrespect for Cousins that lead to the debacle that was the non-negotiation of a new contract for Kirk Cousins. The Skins didn't have to franchise him multiple times, well, in one sense they didn't. but due once again to Allen's and Snyder's ineptitude they allowed their nuts to caught in a vice with Cousins hand controlling the handle.

Note: Not that you will, but just case you did. Don't gloss over the first 2 paragraphs of this article as they are imo extremely important to the article.


Kirk Cousins was there to see the franchise quarterback sitting courtside with the Redskins’ team owner at a Wizards game. He was there when Washington flipped its scheme upside down to accommodate that franchise QB. He was there when that franchise quarterback’s return from knee surgery took an offseason hostage, and when the team fired a coach for clashing with that franchise quarterback.

He was also there when that franchise quarterback was failing, and given another lifeline with his fifth-year option exercised, and then kept on the payroll as he lost his job to prop up the owner’s hope that his fading run in D.C. could be resuscitated. Cousins knows how a franchise quarterback is treated in Washington, because he was in Robert Griffin III’s draft class, taken two days and 100 picks after RG3 and given a front row seat to watch all that has unfolded,

And finally, this offseason, Cousins has started to feel like he’s That Guy. And, yes, it may seem weird to point such a thing out on the day that the deadline passed for Cousins to do a long-term deal and marry his football future to the Redskins, which means this saga is now assured to stretch into a fourth calendar year. But the truth is that Cousins has a chance to turn the tables on his employer and do to them what they did to him last year.

Last summer, I was talking to Cousins about his situation and how the Redskins were protecting themselves against the chance that his eight-game flourish to finish the 2015 season was just some comet crossing the sky. He pointed out that he was in a similar position in both high school in college, and said, “Here I am again. The team says they want to see another year. That’s fine.”

Today, Cousins is, in essence, saying the same thing to the Redskins. This offseason has been great for him. His relationships with teammates, his standing in the locker room, and where he’s at with his coaches—all of that has never been better, and even the contract negotiation is in a better place than it was before. So if you’re Cousins, and all this works out in Washington, then fantastic. If it doesn’t, you know one of your old coordinators, 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, will be looking for a quarterback in 2018; and it’s not inconceivable that another, Rams coach Sean McVay, could also be in the market for an upgrade by then.

As for the financial end of this, waiting always made sense for Cousins. For him to do a long-term deal with Washington, he’d have to walk away from three attractive conclusions:

• A third straight franchise tag, which would give him $58.42 million between 2017 and ’18, and free agency at age 30 in ’19.

• A transition tag next year, which would set his floor at $52.68 million for ’17 and ’18, and give him a chance to test the market next March (with the Redskins retaining matching rights) at age 29.

• $23.94 million this year and free agency next year.

Those are tough for the Redskins to beat, and the de facto cost to the team for having not locked him down much sooner. Could this circumstance have been avoided? Of course. But that, and the story of how we got here, goes back to whether or not Cousins is a franchise quarterback.

The Redskins first approached Cousins’s reps about a deal in December 2015 (before a road game against the Bears) and were told that he wanted to play the year out before negotiating. The Skins were 5-7, but won four straight to make the playoffs.

Today, Cousins is, in essence, saying the same thing to the Redskins. This offseason has been great for him. His relationships with teammates, his standing in the locker room, and where he’s at with his coaches—all of that has never been better, and even the contract negotiation is in a better place than it was before. So if you’re Cousins, and all this works out in Washington, then fantastic. If it doesn’t, you know one of your old coordinators, 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, will be looking for a quarterback in 2018; and it’s not inconceivable that another, Rams coach Sean McVay, could also be in the market for an upgrade by then.

As for the financial end of this, waiting always made sense for Cousins. For him to do a long-term deal with Washington, he’d have to walk away from three attractive conclusions:

• A third straight franchise tag, which would give him $58.42 million between 2017 and ’18, and free agency at age 30 in ’19.

• A transition tag next year, which would set his floor at $52.68 million for ’17 and ’18, and give him a chance to test the market next March (with the Redskins retaining matching rights) at age 29.

• $23.94 million this year and free agency next year.

Those are tough for the Redskins to beat, and the de facto cost to the team for having not locked him down much sooner. Could this circumstance have been avoided? Of course. But that, and the story of how we got here, goes back to whether or not Cousins is a franchise quarterback.

The Redskins first approached Cousins’s reps about a deal in December 2015 (before a road game against the Bears) and were told that he wanted to play the year out before negotiating. The Skins were 5-7, but won four straight to make the playoffs.

After that, the first offer came: $12.5 million per year, more than $7 million less than the franchise tag for 2016—at a time when 18 quarterbacks were making more than $16 million per. The team went to $15 million per before the combine, and $16 million per after it. But then Brock Osweiler signed for $18 million per year, and talks quieted and Cousins wound up playing out the season on the tag.

That set the stage for this year, with the Redskins’ initial offer of $100 million over five years (with $40 million guaranteed), carrying an average well short of the tag number that Cousins had in front of him. For a few months, that sat on the table. And then, after the draft, the Redskins moved, making a strong offer north of that previous one that, as I understand it, could have sparked a deal in 2016.

The issue?

Cousins’s leverage (see: those three options above) has strengthened considerably since. Also, Cousins’s 2017 money is secure already, and his financial prospects for 2018, absent a long-term deal, are great. So if the team wasn’t going to tie itself to Cousins in that way for 2019— which would cement his place in D.C.—it was going to be hard for the Redskins to find a solution that would make sense for him.

Last year, paying Cousins like a franchise quarterback would’ve gotten a deal done. This year, a deal might have gotten done had the team made a similar deal with full guarantees into Year 3. Instead, to paraphrase Cousins’ words from last August, here we are again. It’s a rare situation, with a multi-year starting quarterback and his team taking their relationship on a year-to-year basis.

The difference now? This time, Cousins gets to make the Redskins wait while he makes sure of it.

By

Albert Breer
 
Last edited:

Sportster 72

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"always" is a very wrong term. But then when you make decisions by emotion and not intellect you would expect half assed and unsourced statements.

KC four comeback victories this year .... two ended in loss after Cousin's drove the team into FG range and Cook fumble the ball away and another where the kicker missed an OT FG. Cousin's led the Vikings to a lead over Dallas with 2:51 only to have the D lose it.

Even as a Redskin you forget the missed FGs when he lead the team in position to win. Or the defense giving up a TD to Detroit: Redskins Comeback in 4th Quarter, Then Lose Stunner To Lions

How about this one ... how do you like me now:
Cousins Leads Redskins to Big Comeback Over Buccaneers

Did he make some mistakes ... of course. Every QB does.

A couple of people here have been nut hugging Griffin for so long and been so wrong about Griffin and Cousins. The Redskin FO screwed up contract talks and enabled KC to make more money than he would have. Personally I am happy for him that he is gone from this horrible ownership and franchise. So I say what I have been saying since they let him go, let me know when they find a replacement. Three and a half years later they still haven't and the guy a couple of you like is calling college games. Now those are facts!!

We can play this game for the next few years if you want. I am confident in the "actual" facts.
 

Skin'EmAll

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I'm 158.3 perfect QB rating with you far as Cuz and choking goes. At least as it concerns his tenure with the Skins. My love/hate relationship with Cuz during the 2015 season. Morphed into a hate/hate thing at times during the 2016 season and I will break it down step by step, play by play if need be. With anyone over his habitual failures of the 2016 season starting with the 1st Dallas game, the 2nd Dallas game, the Arizona game and finally the 2nd NYG game. All games the Skins could've won and two that they should've won w/o question imo had Cuz played like the QB many here incorrectly believed him to be. This carried over into the 2017 season for a couple games, KC and Minny to be specific and 2017 also included arguably his finest games imo as a Redskin against Seattle though I'm sure many would say it was 2016 against Green Bay. But by 2017 the fire within had pretty much flamed out as I had resigned myself to the fact that Bruce Allen had fucked up the Cousins contract situation to the point of absolute absurdity and like or not. Cuz's tenure as a Redskin was coming to its final and ultimate conclusion. Though I have to say, his progression into being a QB capable of leading a flawed team (which the Skins certainly were) to a Super Bowl title was happening way too slow for me. So Cuz's departure wasn't the end all be all for me. I'd go as far to say the biggest regret I have concerning the Skins of that time was the injury to Alex Smith. Cuz as scary, boring, frustrating and irritating as he could be and he could be ALL those things, sometimes all at once. He is easily the winningest QB to ever take a snap in the Snyder Era. (Unless you wanna include Todd Collins 4 game run of 4-0 in 2007 which I do not)

Far as the Cousins contract goes though.

It wasn't Cousins greed that led to that. It was Allen's ineptitude via complete lack of foresight and general disrespect for Cousins that lead to the debacle that was the non-negotiation of a new contract for Kirk Cousins. The Skins didn't have to franchise him multiple times, well, in one sense they didn't. but due once again to Allen's and Snyder's ineptitude they allowed their nuts to caught in a vice with Cousins hand controlling the handle.

Note: Not that you will, but just case you did. Don't gloss over the first 2 paragraphs of this article as they are imo extremely important to the article.


Kirk Cousins was there to see the franchise quarterback sitting courtside with the Redskins’ team owner at a Wizards game. He was there when Washington flipped its scheme upside down to accommodate that franchise QB. He was there when that franchise quarterback’s return from knee surgery took an offseason hostage, and when the team fired a coach for clashing with that franchise quarterback.

He was also there when that franchise quarterback was failing, and given another lifeline with his fifth-year option exercised, and then kept on the payroll as he lost his job to prop up the owner’s hope that his fading run in D.C. could be resuscitated. Cousins knows how a franchise quarterback is treated in Washington, because he was in Robert Griffin III’s draft class, taken two days and 100 picks after RG3 and given a front row seat to watch all that has unfolded,

And finally, this offseason, Cousins has started to feel like he’s That Guy. And, yes, it may seem weird to point such a thing out on the day that the deadline passed for Cousins to do a long-term deal and marry his football future to the Redskins, which means this saga is now assured to stretch into a fourth calendar year. But the truth is that Cousins has a chance to turn the tables on his employer and do to them what they did to him last year.

Last summer, I was talking to Cousins about his situation and how the Redskins were protecting themselves against the chance that his eight-game flourish to finish the 2015 season was just some comet crossing the sky. He pointed out that he was in a similar position in both high school in college, and said, “Here I am again. The team says they want to see another year. That’s fine.”

Today, Cousins is, in essence, saying the same thing to the Redskins. This offseason has been great for him. His relationships with teammates, his standing in the locker room, and where he’s at with his coaches—all of that has never been better, and even the contract negotiation is in a better place than it was before. So if you’re Cousins, and all this works out in Washington, then fantastic. If it doesn’t, you know one of your old coordinators, 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, will be looking for a quarterback in 2018; and it’s not inconceivable that another, Rams coach Sean McVay, could also be in the market for an upgrade by then.

As for the financial end of this, waiting always made sense for Cousins. For him to do a long-term deal with Washington, he’d have to walk away from three attractive conclusions:

• A third straight franchise tag, which would give him $58.42 million between 2017 and ’18, and free agency at age 30 in ’19.

• A transition tag next year, which would set his floor at $52.68 million for ’17 and ’18, and give him a chance to test the market next March (with the Redskins retaining matching rights) at age 29.

• $23.94 million this year and free agency next year.

Those are tough for the Redskins to beat, and the de facto cost to the team for having not locked him down much sooner. Could this circumstance have been avoided? Of course. But that, and the story of how we got here, goes back to whether or not Cousins is a franchise quarterback.

The Redskins first approached Cousins’s reps about a deal in December 2015 (before a road game against the Bears) and were told that he wanted to play the year out before negotiating. The Skins were 5-7, but won four straight to make the playoffs.

Today, Cousins is, in essence, saying the same thing to the Redskins. This offseason has been great for him. His relationships with teammates, his standing in the locker room, and where he’s at with his coaches—all of that has never been better, and even the contract negotiation is in a better place than it was before. So if you’re Cousins, and all this works out in Washington, then fantastic. If it doesn’t, you know one of your old coordinators, 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan, will be looking for a quarterback in 2018; and it’s not inconceivable that another, Rams coach Sean McVay, could also be in the market for an upgrade by then.

As for the financial end of this, waiting always made sense for Cousins. For him to do a long-term deal with Washington, he’d have to walk away from three attractive conclusions:

• A third straight franchise tag, which would give him $58.42 million between 2017 and ’18, and free agency at age 30 in ’19.

• A transition tag next year, which would set his floor at $52.68 million for ’17 and ’18, and give him a chance to test the market next March (with the Redskins retaining matching rights) at age 29.

• $23.94 million this year and free agency next year.

Those are tough for the Redskins to beat, and the de facto cost to the team for having not locked him down much sooner. Could this circumstance have been avoided? Of course. But that, and the story of how we got here, goes back to whether or not Cousins is a franchise quarterback.

The Redskins first approached Cousins’s reps about a deal in December 2015 (before a road game against the Bears) and were told that he wanted to play the year out before negotiating. The Skins were 5-7, but won four straight to make the playoffs.

After that, the first offer came: $12.5 million per year, more than $7 million less than the franchise tag for 2016—at a time when 18 quarterbacks were making more than $16 million per. The team went to $15 million per before the combine, and $16 million per after it. But then Brock Osweiler signed for $18 million per year, and talks quieted and Cousins wound up playing out the season on the tag.

That set the stage for this year, with the Redskins’ initial offer of $100 million over five years (with $40 million guaranteed), carrying an average well short of the tag number that Cousins had in front of him. For a few months, that sat on the table. And then, after the draft, the Redskins moved, making a strong offer north of that previous one that, as I understand it, could have sparked a deal in 2016.

The issue?

Cousins’s leverage (see: those three options above) has strengthened considerably since. Also, Cousins’s 2017 money is secure already, and his financial prospects for 2018, absent a long-term deal, are great. So if the team wasn’t going to tie itself to Cousins in that way for 2019— which would cement his place in D.C.—it was going to be hard for the Redskins to find a solution that would make sense for him.

Last year, paying Cousins like a franchise quarterback would’ve gotten a deal done. This year, a deal might have gotten done had the team made a similar deal with full guarantees into Year 3. Instead, to paraphrase Cousins’ words from last August, here we are again. It’s a rare situation, with a multi-year starting quarterback and his team taking their relationship on a year-to-year basis.

The difference now? This time, Cousins gets to make the Redskins wait while he makes sure of it.

By

Albert Breer

Hey Breed, I appreciate this response, it was honest, with no hostility toward my exaggerated judgement of Cousins.
IMO Ryan Leaf is a complete bust, Griffin however had a superstar year, we expected more but his maturity and body failed us...(IMO)
Cousins developed all the tools to be a winner but hasn't really done that in the playoffs(this doesn't mean I don't think he isn't a WR's dream to play with in addition to being a notch below elite) I'm just can't get behind those who wish he was still here, when he's showed us on two teams that he's not a guy to EVER take you deep in the playoffs even with ELITE talent, while being paid like he's freaking Aaron Rodgers.
I was also using the "greedy contract" as hyperbole - but again this is all good stuff Breed, hard to disagree with anything you posted on this one.
 

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Just a reminder the Movie Draft day was about RG3 and nobody went to RG3 party in collage the players hated him
 

skinsdad62

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the biggest sin KC committed was proving rg3 was a fraud

right now RG3 is calling college football games after being a career BU , and not a very good one at that

KC on the other hand has had a very good career and for a 4th round pick he was a steal
 

Skin'EmAll

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the biggest sin KC committed was proving rg3 was a fraud

right now RG3 is calling college football games after being a career BU , and not a very good one at that

KC on the other hand has had a very good career and for a 4th round pick he was a steal

We can all thank Synder for this fight we keep having. Griffin was a bust for his draft price despite being ROY, pro bowler.
Needed to sit like cousins. Cousins clearly had the higher ceiling but never could do anything in the post season. He's without a doubt above average but continues to flop. Its hard to say he would make a playoff run if he were back on the skins when he can't do it with 2 elite WRs and a top 5 RB in Minnesota. For the record....I'm sad Griffin couldn't have turned things around but in NO way do i secretly wish he was back, in no way do i feel that he was better than Cousins and I'm ok if he kicks rocks too
 

skinsdad62

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