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gkekoa

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Occasionally it would be nice if you guys did a bias and fact check on some of the shit you sling against the wall. NO worries... I got your back on this one

Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) - Media Bias/Fact Check

Bias: Extreme Right, Hate Group

Notes: The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is a non-profit research organization “that favors far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views.” It was started as a spin-off from John Tanton’s Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) in 1985. Reports published by the CIS have been widely deemed misleading and riddled with basic errors by scholars on immigration; think tanks from across the ideological and political spectrum; media of all stripes; several leading nonpartisan immigration-research organizations; and by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The organization has also drawn criticism for its financial and intellectual ties to extremist racists. The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) published reports in 2002 and 2009 connecting CIS to John Tanton, who helped found various other organizations, including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) and NumbersUSA, and showing he has ties to white supremacy groups and a eugenics foundation (SPLC). Bottom line, this is a hate group. (2/8/2017)

Does it make the numbers incorrect?
 

Sharkinva

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Does it make the numbers incorrect?


Considering they have an agenda behind their numbers, I wouldnt trust them to be accurate anymore than I would trust Jerry Jones to ref the game next week. At best they cherry picked stats to fit their narrative.

BUt as I tell my lower TSE's at work... let me google that for you

Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.

The CIS study exaggerates the number of immigrants on welfare by using households as the unit of analysis; as long as the head of household is an immigrant, they consider it an immigrant household, and Camarota counts a household “as using welfare if any one of its members used welfare during 2012.” This means that a household with an American spouse who therefore qualified for welfare could be counted as “using welfare.” The same would go for a child born in the United States to immigrant parents. If he or she received subsidized lunch at school, the whole household would be categorized as “using welfare.” As the Cato Institute notes in its critique of the study, that measure is “ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons.” Relying on such mutable methodology let Camarota exaggerate the number of immigrants on welfare to back up the claim that Americans are footing the bill for immigrants.

Groups like The American Immigration Council have long argued that, contra conservative depictions of “moocher,” immigrants have long given more to the welfare system than they take from it. “In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits,” a 2010 report by the Council found. “In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.”
 

skinsdad62

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Legal or illegal immigrants ? Telling me a illegasl making minimum wage or Less using someone else’s identity is giving the US some huge economic windfall is BS

And any study saying that is one I would reject out of hand much like the BS climate change studies that now have shown their math was faulty .

I don’t tbink it’s too much to ask for people coming here to respect our immigration laws .
 

Stymietee

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Just caught up on reading all posts since I left and I have a quick question... has anyone had a change of mind on any issue here? If so, what was it?
 

Sharkinva

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Legal or illegal immigrants ? Telling me a illegasl making minimum wage or Less using someone else’s identity is giving the US some huge economic windfall is BS

And any study saying that is one I would reject out of hand much like the BS climate change studies that now have shown their math was faulty .

I don’t tbink it’s too much to ask for people coming here to respect our immigration laws .


You wont believe any numbers that dont paint illegals as some sort of drain on and ultimate demise of society if they are not put in check. The reality is, groups like CIS and Fair... (both of which have been referenced here) routinely pull a Tucker Carlson. And bythet I mean they start out railing about illegal immigrants, but 5-10 minutes in they drop the illegal part and just start paint immigrants as the problem....
 

skinsdad62

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You wont believe any numbers that dont paint illegals as some sort of drain on and ultimate demise of society if they are not put in check. The reality is, groups like CIS and Fair... (both of which have been referenced here) routinely pull a Tucker Carlson. And bythet I mean they start out railing about illegal immigrants, but 5-10 minutes in they drop the illegal part and just start paint immigrants as the problem....
well its very simple shark , i dont want open borders . i am all for legal immigration
 

gkekoa

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Considering they have an agenda behind their numbers, I wouldnt trust them to be accurate anymore than I would trust Jerry Jones to ref the game next week. At best they cherry picked stats to fit their narrative.

BUt as I tell my lower TSE's at work... let me google that for you

Immigrants Don't Drain Welfare. They Fund It.

The CIS study exaggerates the number of immigrants on welfare by using households as the unit of analysis; as long as the head of household is an immigrant, they consider it an immigrant household, and Camarota counts a household “as using welfare if any one of its members used welfare during 2012.” This means that a household with an American spouse who therefore qualified for welfare could be counted as “using welfare.” The same would go for a child born in the United States to immigrant parents. If he or she received subsidized lunch at school, the whole household would be categorized as “using welfare.” As the Cato Institute notes in its critique of the study, that measure is “ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons.” Relying on such mutable methodology let Camarota exaggerate the number of immigrants on welfare to back up the claim that Americans are footing the bill for immigrants.

Groups like The American Immigration Council have long argued that, contra conservative depictions of “moocher,” immigrants have long given more to the welfare system than they take from it. “In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits,” a 2010 report by the Council found. “In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.”

So we should believe your numbers?

Here is why I doubt your numbers. States such as California have routinely flouted federal law in favor of open immigration. I find it completely believable that funds are being funneled to places where they were not intended and allotted.

There is also a zero percent chance they earn 240 billion and pay 90 billion. That would be nearly a 40% tax rate for the group as a whole.
 

Sharkinva

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So we should believe your numbers?

Here is why I doubt your numbers. States such as California have routinely flouted federal law in favor of open immigration. I find it completely believable that funds are being funneled to places where they were not intended and allotted.

There is also a zero percent chance they earn 240 billion and pay 90 billion. That would be nearly a 40% tax rate for the group as a whole.


So.. lets look big picture here. Total outcome what do you think your REAL tax rate is?? Not just income tax. Figure in sales tax you pay, personal property tax. I did the math once, after income tax, sales tax and personal property tax and the like, about half of every dollar i make goes to taxes, SSI, FICA and my retirement account. NOw most of these people wont have a 401k. On the flip side, despite what many think, living a total cash existence will NOT mean one is not paying taxes.

More than 3.4 million undocumented immigrants are homeowners, according to the Migration Policy Institute analysis of the 2014 U.S. census data. That’s about 31 percent of the undocumented population.

These folks are in most cases paying MORE than their fair share.
 

skinsdad62

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So.. lets look big picture here. Total outcome what do you think your REAL tax rate is?? Not just income tax. Figure in sales tax you pay, personal property tax. I did the math once, after income tax, sales tax and personal property tax and the like, about half of every dollar i make goes to taxes, SSI, FICA and my retirement account. NOw most of these people wont have a 401k. On the flip side, despite what many think, living a total cash existence will NOT mean one is not paying taxes.

More than 3.4 million undocumented immigrants are homeowners, according to the Migration Policy Institute analysis of the 2014 U.S. census data. That’s about 31 percent of the undocumented population.

These folks are in most cases paying MORE than their fair share.

i dont buy it period if you want to come here , come here legally . i am all for fixing the laws to make that easier but i will not accept open borders
 

Sharkinva

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i dont buy it period if you want to come here , come here legally . i am all for fixing the laws to make that easier but i will not accept open borders


When a LAW is or was based on racism and bigotry, is still supporting the LAW because its technically legal the right thing to do?

Here is a little background on WHEN and WHY our southern border laws are what they are today.

How crossing the US-Mexico border became a crime

And they will never fix immigration law to make it more realistic, because it is, was and will always be about preventing a change in American "Culture".
 

skinsdad62

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When a LAW is or was based on racism and bigotry, is still supporting the LAW because its technically legal the right thing to do?

Here is a little background on WHEN and WHY our southern border laws are what they are today.

How crossing the US-Mexico border became a crime

And they will never fix immigration law to make it more realistic, because it is, was and will always be about preventing a change in American "Culture".


The law isn’t based on racism or bigotry
 

Sharkinva

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The law isn’t based on racism or bigotry


Might want to rethink that

Blease’s law
Senator Coleman Livingston Blease hailed from the hills of South Carolina. In 1925, he entered Congress committed, above all else, to protecting white supremacy. In 1929, as restrictionists and employers tussled over the future of Mexican immigration, Blease proposed a way forward.

file-20170419-2410-1u3u9tq.jpg

Senator Coleman Blease. Library of Congress
According to U.S. immigration officials, Mexicans made nearly one million official border crossings into the United States during the 1920s. They arrived at a port of entry, paid an entry fee and submitted to any required tests, such as literacy and health.

However, as U.S. immigration authorities reported, many other Mexican immigrants did not register for legal entry. Entry fees were prohibitively high for many Mexican workers. Moreover, U.S. authorities subjected Mexican immigrants, in particular, to kerosene baths and humiliating delousing procedures because they believed Mexican immigrants carried disease and filth on their bodies. Instead of traveling to a port of entry, many Mexicans informally crossed the border at will, as both U.S. and Mexican citizens had done for decades.

When the debate stalled over how many Mexicans to allow in each year, Blease shifted attention to stopping the large number of border crossings that took place outside ports of entry. He suggested criminalizing unmonitored entry.

According to Blease’s bill, “unlawfully entering the country” would be a misdemeanor, while unlawfully returning to the United States after deportation would be a felony. The idea was to force Mexican immigrants into an authorized and monitored stream that could be turned on and turned off at will at ports of entry. Any immigrant who entered the United States outside the bounds of this stream would be a criminal subject to fines, imprisonment and ultimately deportation. But it was a crime designed to impact Mexican immigrants, in particular.

Neither the western agricultural businessmen nor the restrictionists registered any objections. Congress passed Blease’s bill, the Immigration Act of March 4, 1929, and dramatically altered the story of crime and punishment in the United States.
 

skinsdad62

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So what ? You bring up a law from 1925 and that’s relevant today ?
 

Sharkinva

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So what ? You bring up a law from 1925 and that’s relevant today ?


The LAW from 1925 is the LAW thats on the books today that makes undocumented border crossing "ILLEGAL". So the LAW was written by a white supremacist, and designed to further those goals. Its the law of the land that we are going off of NOW.
 

skinsdad62

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The LAW from 1925 is the LAW thats on the books today that makes undocumented border crossing "ILLEGAL". So the LAW was written by a white supremacist, and designed to further those goals. Its the law of the land that we are going off of NOW.
And it should be. But it’s doesn mean it’s about race. Anymore then the original reason abortion was brought into play.
 

Sharkinva

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And it should be. But it’s doesn mean it’s about race. Anymore then the original reason abortion was brought into play.


Dude.. I have shown you the research on the laws we are working off of. Between Bleases Law and the Johnson/Reed act (Both in the 1920's) they were DIRECTLY put into place to protect Americas at the time white dominated culture from possible change.

Both these laws were a mainstay of Jeff Sessions policy on immigration and crime. If Sessions had not gotten fired, he would still be pushing these agendas. And for the record the only reason Sessions was fired is because he refused to fire Mueller.

I dont make these statements lightly because I really until recently thought as a nation we were getting past this level of bullshit. BUt the past two years have shown me that the mindset and mentality of 1920's America is alive and well in certain parts of the country.
 

skinsdad62

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Dude.. I have shown you the research on the laws we are working off of. Between Bleases Law and the Johnson/Reed act (Both in the 1920's) they were DIRECTLY put into place to protect Americas at the time white dominated culture from possible change.

Both these laws were a mainstay of Jeff Sessions policy on immigration and crime. If Sessions had not gotten fired, he would still be pushing these agendas. And for the record the only reason Sessions was fired is because he refused to fire Mueller.

I dont make these statements lightly because I really until recently thought as a nation we were getting past this level of bullshit. BUt the past two years have shown me that the mindset and mentality of 1920's America is alive and well in certain parts of the country.

And again what does that have to do with race ? Nothing Change the laws to take away the waiting but come here legally all races come here illegally
 
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