Off Season Grade

[calsnowskier]

The Giants are almost certainly done now with their off-season.

So how do we grade them?

Positives

The Giants added two top-of-the-rotations arms. Both Cueto and Samardzija are 200+ IP pitchers. Cueto is a legit Ace and Scrabble is anywhere from an Ace to a 4 (but with inning-eating capability). They now have a clear top-5 rotation in the entire game.

They added a mid-level CFer to replace Pagan (or at least move him over to LF).

Negatives

They lost their 1st round draft pick.

They missed out on the two BIG FA starting pitchers (Price, Greinke)

Back up 3B was not addressed

Summary

If the only real question is back-up 3B, I think this qualifies as one of the most "complete" teams in the league going into ST.

Grade

A-

 

[dredinis21]

I think Tomlinson will have to take reps at 3b. He doesn't have the arm for it, but neither did Arias and we trotted him out there with regularity. If Tomlinson can turn into our INF super sub, it will allow us to keep our INF fresh and hopefully (knock on wood) healthy for the season.

As far as the offseason goes, Greinke would have been a good get, but I REALLY like the two guys they got as innings eaters. It will be our bully an opportunity to go back to being dominant with less of a workload. Last year was rough to watch towards the end.

A-/A

 

[SFGRTB]

There is a lot of risk involved with all big money acquisitions, but the Giants seemed to get a few of the more risky ones.

Cueto had mixed results in KC, and there was concerns over his elbow. Samardjiza was not good last year. Span played 61 games. I really liked all 3 deals though, and the rewards of all these guys is incredibly high. With our offense, Span could easily score over 100 runs and save our fly-ball heavy pitching staff on defense. Shark has the tools be a number 2 starter. Cueto was a true Ace as recently as last July.

Evans also kept the young core together.

B+

 

[msgkings322]

There is a lot of risk involved with all big money acquisitions, but the Giants seemed to get a few of the more risky ones.

Cueto had mixed results in KC, and there was concerns over his elbow. Samardjiza was not good last year. Span played 61 games. I really liked all 3 deals though, and the rewards of all these guys is incredibly high. With our offense, Span could easily score over 100 runs and save our fly-ball heavy pitching staff on defense. Shark has the tools be a number 2 starter. Cueto was a true Ace as recently as last July.

Evans also kept the young core together.

B+

Unless you have unlimited funds you gotta take a gamble here and there.

Re 3B, could Crawford play there once in a while to give Duffman a rest?

 

[Mays-Fan]

Unless you have unlimited funds you gotta take a gamble here and there.

Re 3B, could Crawford play there once in a while to give Duffman a rest?

From a purely fan's point of view, financial considerations aside, I would give them an A.

From what I know of their financial situation, which may not be much, perhaps an A or even A+.

I think they still have some room in the budget, and a need for a solid utility guy. Sounds like Juan Uribe, who they could get for 1/6 or even 2/10. The question is if he will accept a backup role. I believe this has led to issues in the past with him, IIRC. He will be 37 in March.

 

[LHG]

From a purely fan's point of view, financial considerations aside, I would give them an A.

From what I know of their financial situation, which may not be much, perhaps an A or even A+.

I think they still have some room in the budget, and a need for a solid utility guy. Sounds like Juan Uribe, who they could get for 1/6 or even 2/10. The question is if he will accept a backup role. I believe this has led to issues in the past with him, IIRC. He will be 37 in March.

What, no mention of Posey playing 3rd?

 

[LHG]

There is a lot of risk involved with all big money acquisitions, but the Giants seemed to get a few of the more risky ones.

Cueto had mixed results in KC, and there was concerns over his elbow. Samardjiza was not good last year. Span played 61 games. I really liked all 3 deals though, and the rewards of all these guys is incredibly high. With our offense, Span could easily score over 100 runs and save our fly-ball heavy pitching staff on defense. Shark has the tools be a number 2 starter. Cueto was a true Ace as recently as last July.

Evans also kept the young core together.

B+

For the above reasons listed and the fact that Samaradzija, Span and Cueto will all be 35 at the end of their deals, I'm giving the team a C+/C grade. That is with the hopes that I'm way off and you all are right and they prove me very wrong about these acquisitions. I'd much rather eat crow then be right.

 

[dredinis21]

For the above reasons listed and the fact that Samaradzija, Span and Cueto will all be 35 at the end of their deals, I'm giving the team a C+/C grade. That is with the hopes that I'm way off and you all are right and they prove me very wrong about these acquisitions. I'd much rather eat crow then be right.

No offense, but a C grade is insane. They had needs, and they aggressively moved to fill those needs. That in and of itself should give them a B grade IMO. Aoki leaving opened up a hole in the lineup at the top of the order and Span fills that. We needed inning eaters and we got two of the highest quality innings eaters on the market.

Go home LHG, you're drunk.

 

[Mays-Fan]

No offense, but a C grade is insane. They had needs, and they aggressively moved to fill those needs. That in and of itself should give them a B grade IMO. Aoki leaving opened up a hole in the lineup at the top of the order and Span fills that. We needed inning eaters and we got two of the highest quality innings eaters on the market.

Go home LHG, you're drunk.

Naaah. He's just mad that ticket prices aren't going down.

 

[LHG]

No offense, but a C grade is insane. They had needs, and they aggressively moved to fill those needs. That in and of itself should give them a B grade IMO. Aoki leaving opened up a hole in the lineup at the top of the order and Span fills that. We needed inning eaters and we got two of the highest quality innings eaters on the market.

Go home LHG, you're drunk.

In my assessment, I failed to mention that the front office left little ability to make a midseason trade, at least without serious luxury cap penalties.

Just because someone gets plunked from the free agent market to fill a hole does that make for a good grade. My assessment is based on the length of the contracts, the question marks on the players and whether they provide a significant upgrade on who they essentially replace.

The Giants needed a starting pitcher. I was not convinced that they need two. Cueto is a bit of a concern with his injury last year and his ineffectiveness in Kansas City. Additionally, his opt out works great if he pitches well just before the opt out and takes it. If he sucks, the team is stuck with another Zito-esque contract. Samardzija stunk in Chicago last year. Maybe his only issue was tipping pitches and it has been remedied. If so, maybe I'm too harsh on the grading. But in both pitcher's cases, their contracts will end at age 35. They may just be clogging the roster at that point. Span, in my estimation is, for the value of his contract, just a slight upgrade, not worth the pick up. For all three, there are big ifs. If Cueto is healthy, if Span is healthy, if Samardzija really fixed his pitch tipping, if Cueto does well, if Span hasn't lost his speed, if Span hasn't lost defensive ability. I can handle those ifs when the team is paying someone a lot less.

 

[LHG]

Naaah. He's just mad that ticket prices aren't going down.

Mays, you got me. I was really hoping that they would drop ticket prices by $15 to $20 per seat.

 

[SF11704]

As a fan I would give them an 'A' for the effort in this off season. They tried to fill every hole they had and went after the best talent available to them. I can't fault them for trying. As far as how 'successful' this of season will prove to be is still an open topic. The 'A' is based on expectations at this point. When the season is 100 games deep that we can start looking back at this thread and start giving some performance grades associated with the off season trades and our expectations.

 

[calsnowskier]

As a fan I would give them an 'A' for the effort in this off season. They tried to fill every hole they had and went after the best talent available to them. I can't fault them for trying. As far as how 'successful' this of season will prove to be is still an open topic. The 'A' is based on expectations at this point. When the season is 100 games deep that we can start looking back at this thread and start giving some performance grades associated with the off season trades and our expectations.

Interesting idea (grading an off-season after the fact). But is that really fair? We have no idea at this point that Span had that blown out ACL on June 14th. Should that affect the grade? I think we can only grade on information that is know at the time.

The Wheeler/Beltran trade was a good trade at the time. We did not know he would tank until the Giants were effectively eliminated, then go on a tear. We did not know that Wheeler would end up having TJ and have his career be a huge question mark. To grade that trade based on future results is simply not fair (and is still done every day).

 

[SF11704]

When I look at a trade or FA signing the first thing I see (or feel) is a sense of expectation. What do I think this new person will do for us. I like Scrabble, Cuerto and Span. I think they can and will deliver. I'm really not grading the players. I'm seem to be more aligned with grading how acquiring these players makes me feel. If we would have gotten Greinke I would have been in the A+++ level. My expectations would have been sky-high. But if Greinke then goes 15-12 I would have been somewhat disappointed. I'm valuing the trade based on my expectations. I may not be able to fault anything with Greinke's performance. Bad breaks lead to losses.
Either way ... I'm very pleased with this off season. But I do see LHG's side of the coin. Based on past player performance his expectation make this off season a C/C+.

 

[Stokes1931]

Mays, you got me. I was really hoping that they would drop ticket prices by $15 to $20 per seat.

Yeah, I'd love to see ticket prices come down to double digits again....

 

[calsnowskier]

Grading this off season a C/C+ is allowed. I just wonder what would have needed to be done to earn a B or an A-. I am not sure a lot more could have been done. I may have preferred Leake instead of Scrabble, since that would have meant we kept our #1. But Scrabble's ceiling is definitely higher, and I think it safe to say that the FO believes there is a decent chance that he will get there.

But Cueto was a GREAT signing. Dont look at the opt-out as an opt-out. Look at it like a player-option instead.

 

[SFGRTB]

Yeah, I'd love to see ticket prices come down to double digits again....

 

[LHG]

Grading this off season a C/C+ is allowed. I just wonder what would have needed to be done to earn a B or an A-. I am not sure a lot more could have been done. I may have preferred Leake instead of Scrabble, since that would have meant we kept our #1. But Scrabble's ceiling is definitely higher, and I think it safe to say that the FO believes there is a decent chance that he will get there.

But Cueto was a GREAT signing. Dont look at the opt-out as an opt-out. Look at it like a player-option instead.

Hmm, I don't know. I'd rather just gripe about how the offseason didn't go right. In unrelated news, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

Every offseason is going to be different, depending on the needs of the team, the quality of the free agent market, the potential in the upper minor leagues and even who may be available on the trade market. For this off season, I'd would have been much happier with just one risky free agent starting pitcher. See Cueto's opt out as a player option makes no difference to me because if he stinks for one or both years before the opt out, he will be going nowhere. However, going with just Cueto would have been a lot better than signing both Cueto and Samardzija. And yes, I'd prefer Cueto over Samardzija. My early favorite was Wei-Yin Chen, before I knew that he was a Boras' client (not too fond of Boras and the stink he makes - see Harvey, Matt; Ozuna, Marcell and Fernandez, Jose for recent examples). After being cool to Mike Leake at the end of the season, I began to warm up to the idea of him or maybe Doug Fister as a reclamation project. The Giants seem to be good at getting a year or two of production on such missions.

So if the Giants signed Cueto or Leake and no one else, I would have given the offseason a higher grade. And yes, I know that I'm about the only one in this forum that would think that way.

 

[msgkings322]

Giants' needs propel Span to sign with S.F.

 

[RamsFan88]

For me, it's an A. We signed two starters who should give us 200 innings each and we obtained a CF who can flurish at the top of our lineup and play better defense than Pagan. Evans did a great job of providing Bochy with flexibility in our lineup and with the pitching staff.