Nick Lidstrom Article

[Eddie_Shack]

Red Wings' ageless wonder Lidstrom still special


It comes a little too close to calling him "the best ever" for my comfort (come on now... he's got Orr beat in longevity, but not greatness), but still interesting to see what guys like Bowman and Chopper think of him.

 

[dash]

He's cracked my top 5 as far as defensemen are concerned...

 

[BostonAJ]

Best stick work from any defenseman I've ever seen. And he's missed, what, like 30 games in his entire career? Guy's a freak.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Best stick work from any defenseman I've ever seen. And he's missed, what, like 30 games in his entire career? Guy's a freak.

Personally I think his stats (particularly his +/-) are inflated a little and he's been a bit overrated throughout his career from playing in front of Chris Osgood so much, but he's still a good defenseman in my mind.

 

[BostonAJ]

Personally I think his stats (particularly his +/-) are inflated a little and he's been a bit overrated throughout his career from playing in front of Chris Osgood so much, but he's still a good defenseman in my mind.

Lol. Yeah, that brick wall has been a huge help for Lidstrom. The man is like a ninja between the pipes.

 

[Automattic]

Personally I think his stats (particularly his +/-) are inflated a little and he's been a bit overrated throughout his career from playing in front of Chris Osgood so much, but he's still a good defenseman in my mind.

<<<<<BEER FLYING OUT ALL HOLES IN MY HEAD>>>>>>

 

[Automattic]

The best thing any youngster can learn from watching Nick is how to play the game with your head up. It's a huge difference maker in all facets of his game.

 

[Automattic]

I wouldn't have named my child after any other athlete btw...

 

[SLY]

lol Matt... Lidstrom is definitely the clear #2 in my book.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Lol. Yeah, that brick wall has been a huge help for Lidstrom. The man is like a ninja between the pipes.

<<<<<BEER FLYING OUT ALL HOLES IN MY HEAD>>>>>>

 

[quoipourquoi]

And he's missed, what, like 30 games in his entire career? Guy's a freak.

His health has a good deal to do with his trophy case. By my count, that's a major difference between the perception of Lidstrom and that of his closest peer in the era.

2000-01
Nicklas Lidstrom: 82 GP, 15-56-71, +9
Chris Pronger: 51 GP, 9-39-47, +21

2006-07
Nicklas Lidstrom: 80 GP, 13-49-62, +40
Chris Pronger: 66 GP, 13-46-59, +27

I think Lidstrom is nothing short of a boss when it comes to defensive play, but between the aforementioned seasons and the coin-flip Norrises against Chelios and MacInnis, and I don't see him as this mythical player that the article paints him out to be.

1998-99
Nicklas Lidstrom: 81 GP, 14-43-57, +14
Al MacInnis: 82 GP, 20-42-62, +33

2001-02
Nicklas Lidstrom: 78 GP, 9-50-59, +13
Chris Chelios: 79 GP, 6-33-39, +40

Full props for 2002-03 and 2005-06, where he was marginally but definitively better than MacInnis and Zubov, but I don't see a properly weighted separation between Lidstrom and other defensemen as the Norris count illustrates. Consistent, yes (certainly more so than Pronger and Niedermayer), but he's more in the Potvin/Robinson range than the Orr/Bourque range. Depending upon how the Red Wings fare without him, I might even rate Scott Stevens higher on personal judgment, because we know he stirred the drink.

Don't mean to rain on the Lidstrom parade, but hey, I'll say the same thing about the past decade's worth of Vezinas if you give me the opportunity. I think the Vezina winner has been the legit best goalie maybe three or four times since 1998...

 

[Automattic]

He has the best stretch pass in the game. What if there was no two line pass his entire career?


It's not just about being healthy either. It's about how he does it in a game that features full contact. Not needing to hit to take the puck from the other teams top guys while not getting hit by the opposition at the same time. coupled with monster ice time in all situations.


Ironically, he had his point streak snapped last night in a game in which he played great. I lost count of the amount of times he was double shifted during the last half of the game. (at the age of 40) Maybe the amount of double shifts a player takes should be a stat?


As you might guess, I don't like stats very much.

 

[quoipourquoi]

He has the best stretch pass in the game. What if there was no two line pass his entire career?


It's not just about being healthy either. It's about how he does it in a game that features full contact. Not needing to hit to take the puck from the other teams top guys while not getting hit by the opposition at the same time. coupled with monster ice time in all situations.


Ironically, he had his point streak snapped last night in a game in which he played great. I lost count of the amount of times he was double shifted during the last half of the game. (at the age of 40) Maybe the amount of double shifts a player takes should be a stat?


As you might guess, I don't like stats very much.

Stats certainly don't tell the whole story (if they did, Scott Stevens post-1994 career would be in jeopardy of being forgotten), but I just wanted to give a little context to those seasons in which many people including myself have made arguments for other defensemen being better than Lidstrom. Given how much emphasis people are putting on Lidstrom's success at his age now, I fear that we're far enough removed from Al MacInnis' career that we can use the reminder that at 40-years-old, he was having a season not unlike Lidstrom's current one- as did a 40-year-old Chelios the year prior, and a 40-year-old Bourque the year prior to that. Being a good defenseman/player at 40 is not unheard of in this decade; it's par for the course for all HOFers.

And I wouldn't say Lidstrom's stretch pass is any more impressive than what the Red Wings forwards have always been capable of doing with said stretch pass. I'd be interested in seeing how he would adapt in a situation in which his forwards, on account of a lack of speed, were dependent upon him carrying the puck.

As we saw in 2008 with Pronger, another stretch-pass defenseman, it's not always a clean adjustment, and I don't believe Lidstrom would be able to consistently lead the charge on offense the way Coffey, Leetch, and Niedermayer did by carrying it themselves. Unfortunately, that's more of a what-if, because outside of 2003-04 (not surprisingly an off-year for Lidstrom's Norris record) the Red Wings have never been vulnerable enough offensively for that to become an issue.

 

[kenyg54]

Nice read, Eddie. Thanx. I've always agreed it has been pre-expansion, Doug Harvey the best, post-expansion, Orr

 

[BostonAJ]

Given how much emphasis people are putting on Lidstrom's success at his age now, I fear that we're far enough removed from Al MacInnis' career that we can use the reminder that at 40-years-old, he was having a season not unlike Lidstrom's current one- as did a 40-year-old Chelios the year prior, and a 40-year-old Bourque the year prior to that. Being a good defenseman/player at 40 is not unheard of in this decade; it's par for the course for all HOFers.

This has always been my biggest knock against Lidstrom (and today's crop of elite defensemen in general). Old balls Bourque and MacInnis and Chelios compared favorably to a young balls Lidstrom, and the old versions of the former were half the players they were in their youth. Lids didn't improve his game in his late twenties - the old guard just retired and allowed him the spotlight.

For me, Lidstrom brings in an interesting question of style. I don't think even the most avid Detroit haters can keep Lidstrom out of the top ten of all time, but there are some great defensemen that some fans might just prefer to Lids, despite his machine-like career. For me, it goes...

1) Bobby Orr
2) Eddie Shore (4 Hart and 8 retro Norris Trophies)
3) Doug Harvey (showed all defensemen a new way to play)
4) Ray Bourque (all-time leader in goals, assists, points)
5) Denis Potvin (nowhere near the longevity of Lids, but if you saw him at his best you know what I'm talking about)
6) Nick Lidstom
7) Red Kelly (Heard so many great things. If he hadn't played forward, he might be ahead of Lids)
8) Chris Chelios (probably the best American player ever, unless we count Brett Hull)
9) Brad Park (would have won five Norris Trophies if not for Orr (four) and Potvin (one))
10) Larry Robinson (Big Bird was a scary motherfucker)

HM - Fetisov (KHL), Coffey (I never know where to rank him - could be just about anywhere), Pronger (his best hockey is top 5 material), Sprague Cleghorn (his cruelty is the stuff of legends), Al MacInnis and Scott Stevens (I just fucking loved their games).

I'm pretty locked in with #1-5, but 6-10 is very shiftable. The only thing Lids has over any of the other guys is longevity. If you look at best hockey vs best hockey, Lidstrom drops a few pegs and others rise. It just depends on what you prefer.

Guys like Coffey, Chelios and Pronger have much bigger stud factors than Lidstrom and if you prefer your hockey players to throw the big hit or make the flashy play out of nothing you might rank these guys ahead of Lidstrom.

/Why does Bowman compare Lidstrom to Robinson in the article? WTF?

//Looking at the names above makes me really disappointed in today's crop of NHL defensemen. The likes of Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Mike Green, and Kris Letang are never going to touch that list. After Lidstrom retires, we'll be left with shit.

 

[Automattic]

Stats certainly don't tell the whole story (if they did, Scott Stevens post-1994 career would be in jeopardy of being forgotten), but I just wanted to give a little context to those seasons in which many people including myself have made arguments for other defensemen being better than Lidstrom. Given how much emphasis people are putting on Lidstrom's success at his age now, I fear that we're far enough removed from Al MacInnis' career that we can use the reminder that at 40-years-old, he was having a season not unlike Lidstrom's current one- as did a 40-year-old Chelios the year prior, and a 40-year-old Bourque the year prior to that. Being a good defenseman/player at 40 is not unheard of in this decade; it's par for the course for all HOFers.

And I wouldn't say Lidstrom's stretch pass is any more impressive than what the Red Wings forwards have always been capable of doing with said stretch pass. I'd be interested in seeing how he would adapt in a situation in which his forwards, on account of a lack of speed, were dependent upon him carrying the puck.

As we saw in 2008 with Pronger, another stretch-pass defenseman, it's not always a clean adjustment, and I don't believe Lidstrom would be able to consistently lead the charge on offense the way Coffey, Leetch, and Niedermayer did by carrying it themselves. Unfortunately, that's more of a what-if, because outside of 2003-04 (not surprisingly an off-year for Lidstrom's Norris record) the Red Wings have never been vulnerable enough offensively for that to become an issue.

He doesn't carry it by himself as much as those mentioned, but when he does he doesn't leave his defensive position vulnerable. Two of those 3 did that consistantly. ( hell, two sometimes fogot what position they played) Nieds was such a smooth and smart skater that it was hard to catch him too far out of position.

 

[quoipourquoi]

He doesn't carry it by himself as much as those mentioned, but when he does he doesn't leave his defensive position vulnerable. Two of those 3 did that consistantly. ( hell, two sometimes fogot what position they played) Nieds was such a smooth and smart skater that it was hard to catch him too far out of position.

Oh, definitely, and especially with Paul Coffey (though it won't prevent me from putting his name up there with the Potvin, Lidstrom, Kelly, and Robinson crowd). I just think there's a lot of value in being able to do that, and in the case of Coffey when he had his speed (and Niedermayer throughout 2003-2009), enough to off-set the risks.

 

[Automattic]

Imagine if Coffey and Leetch we're playing under this decades rules? This discussion would be insane!

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Given how much emphasis people are putting on Lidstrom's success at his age now, I fear that we're far enough removed from Al MacInnis' career that we can use the reminder that at 40-years-old, he was having a season not unlike Lidstrom's current one- as did a 40-year-old Chelios the year prior, and a 40-year-old Bourque the year prior to that. Being a good defenseman/player at 40 is not unheard of in this decade; it's par for the course for all HOFers.

They just showed a stat on points by defensemen at age forty. Bourque is the only one close, he had 59 his last season on a stacked Avs team. Lidstrom is at 40 points right now, the next closest is Blake last year with 30. MacInnis had a nice year at age forty, so did Chelios, but only Bourque can sniff the old man jock of Lidstrom's fortieth year.

 

[BostonAJ]

only Bourque can sniff the old man jock of Lidstrom's fortieth year.

I know you meant to say that the other way around.