Nice game of Horse we saw tonight

[Screamin12th]

Wow i couldn't get into this game. All the scoring you would think it was great but it was boring. The most exciting plays was when the defenses actually played defense instead of sitting on the sidelines all game long just letting each team march up and down the field.

Is this what the NFL wants? because i was not entertained.

These offenses are powerful both the Chiefs and Rams but they both have zero defense. they might as well have lined up at the 25 yard line all game long and seen who could make TD's with no defenders because thats what it felt like haha.

at least the end was some what enjoyable, i thought for sure KC was going to score and then have the Rams return the kickoff for a score.

 

[blstoker]

Wow i couldn't get into this game. All the scoring you would think it was great but it was boring. The most exciting plays was when the defenses actually played defense instead of sitting on the sidelines all game long just letting each team march up and down the field.

Is this what the NFL wants? because i was not entertained.

These offenses are powerful both the Chiefs and Rams but they both have zero defense. they might as well have lined up at the 25 yard line all game long and seen who could make TD's with no defenders because thats what it felt like haha.

at least the end was some what enjoyable, i thought for sure KC was going to score and then have the Rams return the kickoff for a score.

Father-in-law took my son to the EWU/PSU game this weekend. Eastern won 75-23. Even my 9 year old said it was boring. What can you expect when the leading rusher averages over 25 yards a carry and the second leading rusher averaged over 15.

 

[Screamin12th]

glad both teams were scoring or i would have turned it off for some different background noise. Thats all it was for me tonight, some background noise.

Maybe it's just me but i would much rather see a 24-21 game on the football field than a Basketball game played in football pads and no one playing defense. Hell a 31-30 game would have been more enjoyable. I am sure it was fun for fans of those teams because of the back and forth scoring but thats the only ones that would really enjoy defenseless football.

I just hope this helps them realize that they need to even the field a little bit for the defense because this is getting out of hand. Heck half the league is like averaging 24 points or more a game.

 

[JMR]

It was entertaining in that it was back and forth all the way to the end. Also had some "firsts" attached to it -- highest scoring MNF game of all time, first time in NFL history both teams scored 50+, and of course the first time a team scored 50+ and lost. It was appointment TV.

I don't think this will be the SB matchup though. These teams don't play defense well enough (which is odd to say about the Rams, but it's true) to make it through 4 combined games in the playoffs against teams that can actually stop someone.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

That's the future of the NFL. College has already gone that route. Scoring points is the name of the game, and airing it out is how it's done. People can criticize the defenses, but those teams are 10-1 and 9-2, so what they're doing is working.

Whether people enjoy the style the Seahawks are playing or not, it's a dying breed. Carroll/Schotty (among a few other) are some of the last remaining in that regard.

 

[JMR]

That's the future of the NFL. College has already gone that route. Scoring points is the name of the game, and airing it out is how it's done. People can criticize the defenses, but those teams are 10-1 and 9-2, so what they're doing is working.

Whether people enjoy the style the Seahawks are playing or not, it's a dying breed. Carroll/Schotty (among a few other) are some of the last remaining in that regard.

Yeah, what they're doing is "working" but for a variety of reasons -- not just because they decided to do it. You have to have the talent to pull it off. Otherwise, what is keeping the Raiders, Giants, and 49ers of the league from being 9-2? They just don't want to? For most teams, trying to do what the Rams and Chiefs are doing would result in catastrophic failure.

This also reminds me a bit of those MLB teams that can score a bunch of runs in the regular season against "normal" teams but then have a much tougher time in the playoffs because of the level of competition. Most of the teams in the playoffs will be playing good defense, and the weather is not going to be as conducive to passing attacks (probably zero impact on the Rams in LA or NO).

 

[Anointed One]

That's the future of the NFL. College has already gone that route. Scoring points is the name of the game, and airing it out is how it's done. People can criticize the defenses, but those teams are 10-1 and 9-2, so what they're doing is working.

Whether people enjoy the style the Seahawks are playing or not, it's a dying breed. Carroll/Schotty (among a few other) are some of the last remaining in that regard.

It's the future for sure but doesn't mean the NFL will continue to be as popular as it has been... My interest has waned a bit the past year or so... Tired of all the penalties and new rule changes that has changed the game dramatically... I don't like the fact that the NFL is basically set up to shatter all previous records... I could only imagine what guys like Dan Marino and Steve Young, Jerry Rice and Randy Moss, Marshall Faulk, Ladanian Tomlinson would've done in this day and age...

 

[MrS]

did they even run the ball? it was a pass fest like none other before it, almost like the NFL told them to.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

Yeah, what they're doing is "working" but for a variety of reasons -- not just because they decided to do it. You have to have the talent to pull it off. Otherwise, what is keeping the Raiders, Giants, and 49ers of the league from being 9-2? They just don't want to? For most teams, trying to do what the Rams and Chiefs are doing would result in catastrophic failure.

Of course they have talent, but they're also part of a unique scheme that's maximizing that talent. Jeff Fisher had largely the same offensive characters in 2016 and had an abysmal offense.

The Seahawks have talent too - Wilson, Baldwin, Carson, Penny, Lockett, etc. It's not like the Seahawks are incapable of matching the Rams or even Chiefs level of talent. As someone who is not as high on Wilson as most, I hear all the time from others that he's a top 5 QB. If that's the case then surely he can do what Goff is doing, right? Unless we are accepting that Goff is better than Russell (something I DON'T believe). Cooks is very talented, but you can't tell me that Robert Woods and Cooper Kupp are far and away better than Baldwin and Lockett either.

This also reminds me a bit of those MLB teams that can score a bunch of runs in the regular season against "normal" teams but then have a much tougher time in the playoffs because of the level of competition. Most of the teams in the playoffs will be playing good defense, and the weather is not going to be as conducive to passing attacks (probably zero impact on the Rams in LA or NO).

No offense, but the MLB thing is a bit of an old-timey myth (in fact the last 2 World Series champs were the MLB leaders in runs). There isn't anything concrete that proves that teams who excel in run scoring over run prevention are at any inflated disadvantage come playoff time. Also, the MLB playoffs is a LOT more randomized than the other sports (by nature of playoff games/regular season games).

That example aside, I don't agree that teams who prioritize scoring are at a disadvantage either.

Using the points per game ranking, here are the last 5 SBs:

- 2 v 3
- 1 v 3
- 1 v 19 (I'll give you this one with the '19' winning the SB)
- 4 v 10
- 1 v 8

Now of course there are some good defenses in there ('13 & '14 Seahawks, '16 Broncos). Obviously if you can pair a great defense with a good offense, that's ideal. But in those 5 years you also have Atlanta, New England numerous times, the all-time offense of the Denver team we beat, etc.

As the game becomes more high-flying, I think this trend is only going to increase too. As of right now, none of the top 5 teams with the best odds to win the Super Bowl are in the top 10 in PPG on defense. I know those are just odds, and not actual results, but more and more teams are getting in the playoffs with elite offenses and so-so defenses.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

It's the future for sure but doesn't mean the NFL will continue to be as popular as it has been... My interest has waned a bit the past year or so... Tired of all the penalties and new rule changes that has changed the game dramatically... I don't like the fact that the NFL is basically set up to shatter all previous records... I could only imagine what guys like Dan Marino and Steve Young would've done in this day and age...

To be honest, I think this will make the NFL even more popular. Last night was the highest rated Monday Night Football game since 2014. For better or worse, people love scoring. The casual football fan would much rather watch a 50-something to 50-something shootout between KC and LA than watch Washington and Dallas on Thanksgiving go 13-10 with a bunch of punts.

 

[Anointed One]

The casual football fan would much rather watch a 50-something to 50-something shootout between KC and LA than watch Washington and Dallas on Thanksgiving go 13-10 with a bunch of punts.

I get that... It was a one off, though... It was a novelty... If every game in the future is going to be like the Rams/Chiefs, the ratings won't spike like they did last night... If it became the norm, people will begin to grow immune to the novelty of a high scoring affair...

 

[BSUSeahawk]

I get that... It was a one off, though... It was a novelty... If every game in the future is going to be like the Rams/Chiefs, the ratings won't spike like they did last night... If it became the norm, people will begin to grow immune to the novelty of a high scoring affair...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There's enough evidence out there to suggest that high scoring directly correlates with higher television ratings that I'm inclined to believe people won't stop tuning in (https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...hing-too-much-scoring/?utm_term=.8446409afe6d).

 

[Screamin12th]

when they compared a 2-3 Indy vs 2-3 Titans game to a GB vs 49ers they lost me. Of course the GB/49er game would have a MUCH larger viewership. As for viewership yes it's on the climb it was and still is recovering from a pissed off fan base. Every year the viewership will climb but thats like saying you will have more eggs next year than the year before because your chickens have hatched and are now laying eggs also.

So far 50% of the people i talked to felt last nights game didn't feel like football. I think that's the point, it DIDN'T FEEL LIKE FOOTBALL.

Instant gratification it seems is just not in the kids in today it's in the NFL. At this rate no Defensive players will be drafted in the first 3 rounds because everyone will just be loading up an offensive talent because the field is so tilted in that direction.

I have a bad feeling it's going to get much worse before they start to level the playing field again. Sucks for us fans. I don't want to watch a 70 to 75 football game.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

That was just one article. You can dive in more, if you'd like, but over the last several years there has been a very clear correlation between offense/scoring and viewership. It entertains the masses, whether the diehard football fan likes it or not. I'm not even necessarily arguing in favor of that style of football, but to use the same example I did earlier, I guarantee last night's game is 10x more entertaining than Dallas/Washington on Thursday (which will likely come under 40 points combined).

 

[Screamin12th]

That was just one article. You can dive in more, if you'd like, but over the last several years there has been a very clear correlation between offense/scoring and viewership. It entertains the masses, whether the diehard football fan likes it or not. I'm not even necessarily arguing in favor of that style of football, but to use the same example I did earlier, I guarantee last night's game is 10x more entertaining than Dallas/Washington on Thursday (which will likely come under 40 points combined).

yeah but Dallas/Washington really? This game was against two 9-1 teams it was the best AFC vs the Best NFC teams by record in the NFL and it was in week 11. Yeah the hype was working over time for this game. I won't lie i turned it on because of the hype, i wont be watching the Dallas/Washington game though. Washington losing Alex pretty much ends their season i think. Hawks got the Head to Head over Dallas so i don't care what they do. they are both struggling teams that are having a hard time finding their way. Not like KC vs LA Rams

 

[BSUSeahawk]

yeah but Dallas/Washington really? This game was against two 9-1 teams it was the best AFC vs the Best NFC teams by record in the NFL and it was in week 11. Yeah the hype was working over time for this game. I won't lie i turned it on because of the hype, i wont be watching the Dallas/Washington game though. Washington losing Alex pretty much ends their season i think. Hawks got the Head to Head over Dallas so i don't care what they do. they are both struggling teams that are having a hard time finding their way. Not like KC vs LA Rams

I feel like most of the people that are complaining about the style of play in last night's game are doing it more for superficial reasons than because they truly were bothered by it. Otherwise, why wouldn't you be as interested in a nationally televised game between two good defenses with first place in the NFC East on the line?

Also, the quality of teams in last night's game is entirely due to their offensive success, which people are claiming to be bothered by. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate good defensive play too. But to act like last night's game wasn't one of the most entertaining NFL games ever is crazy to me. I would much rather see teams light up the scoreboard like that than watch sluggish 16-13 punt-fests for nostalgic purposes.

 

[chf]

Wow i couldn't get into this game. All the scoring you would think it was great but it was boring. The most exciting plays was when the defenses actually played defense instead of sitting on the sidelines all game long just letting each team march up and down the field.

Is this what the NFL wants? because i was not entertained.

These offenses are powerful both the Chiefs and Rams but they both have zero defense. they might as well have lined up at the 25 yard line all game long and seen who could make TD's with no defenders because thats what it felt like haha.

at least the end was some what enjoyable, i thought for sure KC was going to score and then have the Rams return the kickoff for a score.

So back in college when you had sex with the Playboy playmate twins, and then they invited over their sorority friends for round 2, you thought to yourself - yeah, less is more, I AM NOT ENTERTAINED!

 

[JMR]

Of course they have talent, but they're also part of a unique scheme that's maximizing that talent. Jeff Fisher had largely the same offensive characters in 2016 and had an abysmal offense.

The Seahawks have talent too - Wilson, Baldwin, Carson, Penny, Lockett, etc. It's not like the Seahawks are incapable of matching the Rams or even Chiefs level of talent. As someone who is not as high on Wilson as most, I hear all the time from others that he's a top 5 QB. If that's the case then surely he can do what Goff is doing, right? Unless we are accepting that Goff is better than Russell (something I DON'T believe). Cooks is very talented, but you can't tell me that Robert Woods and Cooper Kupp are far and away better than Baldwin and Lockett either.

Yep, the Hawks have some talent. With the line we have now (finally), we stand a much better chance to attempt the offense that we see with Rams/Chiefs, but I think that would really stress our young defense. We gave the Rams 2 really tough tests and ended up losing by about the same margin as what KC lost by. We may have scored 14 more points airing it out a lot more, but we also may have given up 21 more. I think right now the reality is we just are not as good as the Rams and maybe not as good as KC either, regardless of how we try to beat them.

No offense, but the MLB thing is a bit of an old-timey myth (in fact the last 2 World Series champs were the MLB leaders in runs). There isn't anything concrete that proves that teams who excel in run scoring over run prevention are at any inflated disadvantage come playoff time. Also, the MLB playoffs is a LOT more randomized than the other sports (by nature of playoff games/regular season games).

That wasn't actually my point -- didn't say an MLB team that scores a lot in the regular season won't do well in the playoffs. What I said was I have seen baseball teams that do score a lot of runs and win a lot games during the regular season (playing mostly non-playoff teams) but then struggle in post-season. We have all seen that, and it isn't old timey. The reason those teams win games in the regular season but stumble in playoffs is because they have a flaw that gets exposed by the better teams. Usually it's pitching. To transfer that analogy to the NFL, I'm not convinced that KC and maybe not even the Rams have good enough defense to hold up in January. They can score lots of points that will win lots of regular season games, but they aren't very good at keeping other teams from scoring. Right now I would pick the Saints to beat LAR, and nobody should be all that shocked if KC has a tough time with either NE or Pittsburgh come playoff time.

As the game becomes more high-flying, I think this trend is only going to increase too. As of right now, none of the top 5 teams with the best odds to win the Super Bowl are in the top 10 in PPG on defense. I know those are just odds, and not actual results, but more and more teams are getting in the playoffs with elite offenses and so-so defenses.

The game may become more high-flying, but the Chiefs and Rams are still the rare exception and not the rule of the NFL offense. Hardly anyone is doing what they are doing. They scored 13 TDs in that game the other night....the Bills have scored 13 all year. The league center of mass is closer to the Bills/Cardinals/Raiders than the Saints, Rams or Chiefs; what they are doing is impressive though, no argument there.

 

[Judge Fudge]

DVR it for some good Friday night viewing but it was on in the Save-on break room.

I gotta ask....

What in the Blue hell was Whitworth doing on that attempt at a tackle on the Fumble recovery td???

If he got his arms around the carrier, didn't get the name because it was on mute, and pulled him down. 1st and goal at the LAR 3.

Give your defense a chance and make the FUCKING TACKLE

 

[BSUSeahawk]

Yep, the Hawks have some talent. With the line we have now (finally), we stand a much better chance to attempt the offense that we see with Rams/Chiefs, but I think that would really stress our young defense. We gave the Rams 2 really tough tests and ended up losing by about the same margin as what KC lost by. We may have scored 14 more points airing it out a lot more, but we also may have given up 21 more. I think right now the reality is we just are not as good as the Rams and maybe not as good as KC either, regardless of how we try to beat them.

Frankly, I don't see a ton of talent difference between the Seahawks and Rams on offense. Whatever advantage they have at RB and WR, I'd say the Seahawks make up for via Wilson > Goff. It's just a difference in offensive scheme (same reason the same Rams were putrid under Jeff Fisher).

KC - I'll give you. Hill and Kelce are special talents that we can't mimic and Mahomes is better than Wilson.

That wasn't actually my point -- didn't say an MLB team that scores a lot in the regular season won't do well in the playoffs. What I said was I have seen baseball teams that do score a lot of runs and win a lot games during the regular season (playing mostly non-playoff teams) but then struggle in post-season. We have all seen that, and it isn't old timey. The reason those teams win games in the regular season but stumble in playoffs is because they have a flaw that gets exposed by the better teams. Usually it's pitching. To transfer that analogy to the NFL, I'm not convinced that KC and maybe not even the Rams have good enough defense to hold up in January. They can score lots of points that will win lots of regular season games, but they aren't very good at keeping other teams from scoring. Right now I would pick the Saints to beat LAR, and nobody should be all that shocked if KC has a tough time with either NE or Pittsburgh come playoff time.

But that can go either way - teams that are great at run scoring but not as good at run prevention can get exposed in the playoffs and teams that are great at run prevention (pitching) but can't score as much can get exposed. The "old timey myth" that I was getting at there is the "defense (run prevention) wins championships" claim. That part isn't true. Championships are won in part by luck (especially in baseball where large seasons are determined by ~15 games) and also by talent, whether that's on offensive, defense or both. There's nothing that proves, specifically in recent years, that a team that is great defensively has any kind of built in advantage over a team that's great offensively come playoff time.

To put it another way, the Seahawks didn't go to back to back Super Bowls simply because there were an elite defense. They went to back to back Super Bowls because they were incredibly talented and were great on both sides of the ball. The fact that they were better on defense than offense didn't give them any kind of inherent advantage. They were great in the regular season and playoffs. On the flip side, a team like New England, which has been significantly better on offense than defense over the last decade, hasn't had any trouble winning in the playoffs either.

Now, when it comes to the Saints over the Rams - I agree with you. But that's because I think their defense is better than LA, while being just explosive as the Rams on offense (if not moreso).

The game may become more high-flying, but the Chiefs and Rams are still the rare exception and not the rule of the NFL offense. Hardly anyone is doing what they are doing. They scored 13 TDs in that game the other night....the Bills have scored 13 all year. The league center of mass is closer to the Bills/Cardinals/Raiders than the Saints, Rams or Chiefs; what they are doing is impressive though, no argument there.

To clarify - I didn't mean 50 to 50 games are going to be the rule. That game got out of hand score wise for many reasons, not just the offensive output. I just meant pass-first offenses that focus on scoring fast and scoring often are going to be commonplace.

Passing numbers continue to climb, so I'd say that it's a clear trend. I'm not sure what the exact "middle" is, but teams are passing more than ever before because it's statistically true that it gives you a higher chance of scoring points and winning games. That's why offenses like what the Seahawks are running are going extinct. There's too much data for coaches and front office types to ignore.