NFL has a ledger with saints bounty payouts

[Hangman]

Report -- NFL has copy of New Orleans Saints' weekly ledger detailing earnings for players in bounty scandal - ESPN


"The NFL has a copy of a ledger detailing weekly earnings for players in the New Orleans Saints bounty scandal, according to a Yahoo! Sports report.

Yahoo! Sports, citing two sources with knowledge of the NFL's evidence, reports the ledger showed payments of $1,000 for cart-offs, $400 for whacks -- also known as hard hits -- and $100 deductions for mental errors. According to the report, Saints players were told on a week-by-week basis of their performance.

Saints Bounty Scandal

An NFL investigation found that the New Orleans Saints operated a bounty system rewarding between 22 and 27 players for hard hits and injuring opposing players. ESPN.com Topics brings you full coverage of this developing story. Profile »

"The players clearly knew what was going (on) each week with the payments," one of the sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Saints defensive players would consistently encourage teammates to place bounty money earned back into the pool, multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports.

However, it remains unclear whether this was to increase potential winnings, or was designated for another purpose, according to the report.

According to the report, the NFL showed portions of the ledger during meetings with some individuals investigated in the scandal.

NFLPA spokesman George Atallah told Yahoo! Sports the league "made mention" of the ledger during an April meeting with the NFLPA, but added that the players' union had not seen the ledger.

"I guess it either qualifies as evidence, which means fair due process was violated because (the) players didn't get to see it before they were punished or it is not hard evidence because they didn't get to see it and cross examine the validity of that piece of evidence," Atallah wrote in a text message to Yahoo! Sports."









Vilma is going to reconsider his lawsuit now I am sure.

I love how the NFLPA lawyer thinks due process is appropriate when there is no court case> Those rules don't not apply for private investigations for private companies.

 

[MHSL82]

"I guess it either qualifies as evidence, which means fair due process was violated because (the) players didn't get to see it before they were punished or it is not hard evidence because they didn't get to see it and cross examine the validity of that piece of evidence," Atallah wrote in a text message to Yahoo! Sports."

Vilma is going to reconsider his lawsuit now I am sure.

I love how the NFLPA lawyer thinks due process is appropriate when there is no court case> Those rules don't not apply for private investigations for private companies.

It's almost as bad as when people in private arguments cite "freedom of speech" because we live in America. I'm thinking, "all I said was what you said was stupid", no government infringement of your rights here. Feel free to look like an idiot. (Just to be clear, I'm not talking about you, Hangman)

 

[threelittleturds]

I smiled at Jim Brown's response to this "bounty scandal" on NFL Network.

"Those poor Saints..."

I'm not trying to take away from what he said in depth about that... where he disavowed the dirty players who intend to injure players..

I'm just laughing how he nonchalantly displayed his wealth of knowledge of the old ways... and how he dismissed the "scandal" in such a way that implies everyone was out to injure the opposition, and most teams gave monetary motivation.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I smiled at Jim Brown's response to this "bounty scandal" on NFL Network.

"Those poor Saints..."

I'm not trying to take away from what he said in depth about that... where he disavowed the dirty players who intend to injure players..

I'm just laughing how he nonchalantly displayed his wealth of knowledge of the old ways... and how he dismissed the "scandal" in such a way that implies everyone was out to injure the opposition, and most teams gave monetary motivation.

They do. It's called paychecks.

 

[MHSL82]

It's sort of like how waiters and waitresses are supposed to serve the customers the best they can, polite, and timely attention to refills, etc. but still need the concept of tips to do it. It's different because the employer's don't pay full amount for the job, knowing that they don't legally have to and that tips potentially could pay enough. I don't like the idea that I'm paying someone's wages with my tips, but I don't take it out on the waiters/waitresses. Did tips start out as bonus for extra service and then turn into a semi-mandatory fee? I say semi-mandatory because technically you don't have to pay it, but we do. I think even if they passed a law saying that restaurants had to pay a fair wage for everything the service people do, we'd still end up tipping or guilt-tipping out of habit. Windfall for them, I suppose.

My sister worked for a restaurant where the boss kept the tips and his kids took the cash tips (credit card tips are harder to steal). They were paid somewhere around minimum wage, as opposed to the 2 dollars others may pay (but tip is theirs). The other waiter seemed to say that it evened out because he was paid more base pay, but I've seen how busy they can be and it seems they would make more tips than the 3-6 dollar hourly difference. This restaurant is busy enough that there always are enough people there to tip enough that there's no lean/empty hours.

This is basically tax evasion because first the cash tips are not reported accurately. Secondly, they report the higher hourly pay as business expenses, lowering their perceived profit, less taxes (but higher ss pay). The credit card tips, I suppose, are reported, but since they "belong to the employees", I'm not sure that they are properly taxed.

Oh, and it's also different because we don't tip them for poisoning other customers or killing the animals they cook themselves.

 

[Bemular]

Vilma's lawyer challenges ledger

 

[SeattleNinersFan]

It's sort of like how waiters and waitresses are supposed to serve the customers the best they can, polite, and timely attention to refills, etc. but still need the concept of tips to do it. It's different because the employer's don't pay full amount for the job, knowing that they don't legally have to and that tips potentially could pay enough. I don't like the idea that I'm paying someone's wages with my tips, but I don't take it out on the waiters/waitresses. Did tips start out as bonus for extra service and then turn into a semi-mandatory fee? I say semi-mandatory because technically you don't have to pay it, but we do. I think even if they passed a law saying that restaurants had to pay a fair wage for everything the service people do, we'd still end up tipping or guilt-tipping out of habit. Windfall for them, I suppose.

My sister worked for a restaurant where the boss kept the tips and his kids took the cash tips (credit card tips are harder to steal). They were paid somewhere around minimum wage, as opposed to the 2 dollars others may pay (but tip is theirs). The other waiter seemed to say that it evened out because he was paid more base pay, but I've seen how busy they can be and it seems they would make more tips than the 3-6 dollar hourly difference. This restaurant is busy enough that there always are enough people there to tip enough that there's no lean/empty hours.

This is basically tax evasion because first the cash tips are not reported accurately. Secondly, they report the higher hourly pay as business expenses, lowering their perceived profit, less taxes (but higher ss pay). The credit card tips, I suppose, are reported, but since they "belong to the employees", I'm not sure that they are properly taxed.

Oh, and it's also different because we don't tip them for poisoning other customers or killing the animals they cook themselves.

Actually, many states and federal goverment tax based on a percent of the till, not the reported tips.

 

[MHSL82]

Actually, many states and federal goverment tax based on a percent of the till, not the reported tips.

Sorry, as far as the cash tips, I was referring to the kids who take it and use it as income to buy stuff. Since the kids are children of the owner, I lumped them together. But you're right, states tax differently as far as tips go. Either way, I think it's pretty shitty to withhold it from the waiters/waitresses because they are the people the customers think they are tipping. Why tip if it's going nowhere? (I'm not talking about split tips where everyone gets equal share.) Since the kids are taking it, it doesn't even allow for food prices to go down (the more a restaurant makes, the more they can afford to keep prices low).

 

[Flyingiguana]

vilma might regret taking legal action, especially if the IRS decides it wants a cut

 

[Bemular]

NFL wins arbitration ruling in bounty case

One down 27 to go