Game Thread: New England at Seattle

[Podunkparte]

3rd down D is a big problem. Hopefully it improves with time, as I think the Jordyn Brooks pick was made to adress this specifically. We're seeing that Adams is just good in coverage, but Edelman made some great catches regardless.

Get college ejections the fuck out of the pro game. Ejections should be reserved solely for egregious violence not associated with the play of the game. Helmets as weapons, thrown punches, chokes, stomps... Not hard hits.

I don't dislike the 3rd and 1 throw to seal the game call. It was perfect against Philly last year to win it, just didn't quite get there tonight. Wilson is a weapon, put the ball in his hands when it matters and it will work out more than it won't.

Freddy Swain looks like a Lockett clone. I'm excited for him. David Moore is an underrated #3.

I like Homer in the return game, not so much in the backfield.

This team needs to embrace the offense. Up 2 TDs with 5 minutes to go is not the time to go prevent! You think that shit will fly against Kyler Murray?!

 

[Cave_Johnson]

 

[Cave_Johnson]

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Get college ejections the fuck out of the pro game. Ejections should be reserved solely for egregious violence not associated with the play of the game. Helmets as weapons, thrown punches, chokes, stomps... Not hard hits.

100%. The officials always seem to be too stupid to really look at the point of the rule. It's to prevent malicious hits with intent to injure. It's not to just kick out anybody who hits hard. That said, this one looked like helmet to helmet. But I've also seen worse not punished with ejection. Consistency is needed here.

 

[Screamin12th]

Diggs pulled his head out of the Hit the issue was the WR also pulled his head out to the same side Diggs did and KAPOW! it was bad luck but that was a stupid call to eject him. That rule needs some tweaking. Will Diggs get fined? yes he will. Did he do it on purpose? not a chance in hell. I would like to know why Harry never got tested and stayed in the game. Once he popped up and he ran back to the huddle he was wobbling all over the place. Imagine what would have happened had Diggs not tried to stop!

 

[Podunkparte]

100%. The officials always seem to be too stupid to really look at the point of the rule. It's to prevent malicious hits with intent to injure. It's not to just kick out anybody who hits hard. That said, this one looked like helmet to helmet. But I've also seen worse not punished with ejection. Consistency is needed here.

I'm more of an NFL fan than I am a college football fan, but I've also hated the rule in CFB. The sport in itself is violent. You ask players to use their shoulders to tackle then penalize them when the head (which just recently, I've learned has been attached near the shoulders) hits another head.

I hated but accepted the ruling in CFB, but IMO the professional game should be judged differently. These are grown men playing a game they know and accept is a risk. Let the game play out inside the understanding that collisions happen. I hold the same opinion on cut back/blind side blocks. You're on a field of play. If you don't have your head on a swivel and get blown up... I guess you should have known better. It's never been a secret that 11 other players on defense are out there trying to stop you from tackling their teammate.

Consistency would be there if the subjectivity were removed from the scenario.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I'm more of an NFL fan than I am a college football fan, but I've also hated the rule in CFB. The sport in itself is violent. You ask players to use their shoulders to tackle then penalize them when the head (which just recently, I've learned has been attached near the shoulders) hits another head.

I hated but accepted the ruling in CFB, but IMO the professional game should be judged differently. These are grown men playing a game they know and accept is a risk. Let the game play out inside the understanding that collisions happen. I hold the same opinion on cut back/blind side blocks. You're on a field of play. If you don't have your head on a swivel and get blown up... I guess you should have known better. It's never been a secret that 11 other players on defense are out there trying to stop you from tackling their teammate.

Consistency would be there if the subjectivity were removed from the scenario.

The college rule is waaaay worse than what the NFL is doing. The NCAA refs are worse and REALLY don't get the intent of the rule. It's called TARGETING. You should get punished if you single out somebody and hit them with intent. It's meant to be a judgement call where the official is given the authority to determine if it looked like somebody was being violent. Unfortunately the officials seem to be too stupid to figure this out and throw out ejections any time somebody gets hit in the head or neck area regardless of the situation.

For instance:

The NFL doesn't have anything close to this kind of idiotic shit. The NCAA rule comes with an automatic ejection the last I looked too. Could have changed by now, idk. I haven't really been watching college ball much the last two years.

 

[seattlefan75]

As far as the ejections go I actually agree with it and its really not on the NFL or refs its more so the players association they are really focused on making the game safer for the players and if the shoe was on the other foot be honest if Gilmore head to head Tyler Lockett and Tyler has to miss 4-5 games due to injury or concussion everyone would scream about how much of a dirty play it was.

 

[JMR]

100%. The officials always seem to be too stupid to really look at the point of the rule. It's to prevent malicious hits with intent to injure. It's not to just kick out anybody who hits hard. That said, this one looked like helmet to helmet. But I've also seen worse not punished with ejection. Consistency is needed here.

It drives me bananas that announcers and analysts continue to say this, but "helmet to helmet" is not a penalty. What you cannot do is hit a defenseless player in the head or neck area (it doesn't matter what you hit them with), and you cannot initiate forcible contact with the crown of the helmet (it does not matter where on the hittee is targeted). Confusion about this rule is probably why many fans think there is not consistency in the calls.

 

[JMR]

Well, obviously a wild game. A few of my takeaways:

• 3rd & 1 with under 2 min. As much as "Let Russ Cook" is becoming a thing and passing from the 1 on 2nd down in SB49 was a good call (despite a bad outcome), we should have definitely stuck to the ground when we needed a 1st down to ice this game. Worst case there is CC gets stuffed, and NE either has to burn a TO or watch more than 25% of the rest of the time tick away before getting the ball deep on their own end and needing a TD to win. Letting Russ Cook doesn't mean you have to throw on every critical down.
• Injuries. Not sure I have seen a Sunday with so many bad ones across the league, so I guess we made out ok with only losing (presumably) Blair in this one. Irvin also had a scare but doesn't appear to be as serious. Same for Duane Brown, who got rolled up on but was able to come back in. With the way his knee bent awkwardly, I can't see how Blair isn't done for the year. And that sucks because all indications were he was really coming on.
• Our pass defense is a problem. The garbage time yards vs Atlanta didn't bother me, but in both games so far we have had a tough time getting off the field on 3rd & long. I think it's still too early to tell (from our vantage point) exactly what the problem is, but I am sure it's easy to lay it on the pass rush. Seems like DBs are still allowing pretty big cushions and also not doing very well on the 50/50 balls, which is not related to pass rush. Whatever it is, we need to make some fixes because last night was about as good as I've ever seen Cam Newton spin it. If we aren't able to pressure the thrower any better than this *and* playing loose coverage, Goff is going light us up. Probably Kyler Murray too.
• There is a good chance we are 0-2 right now without Jamal Adams. Russell is probably on a league MVP arc, but I don't see how we could have survived these games without the plays that Adams continues to make.
• Greg Olsen, wtf?? For a veteran to have a near perfect pass skip off his hands for a TD the other way and later brain cramp for a false start while lined up as a receiver (watch the ball!!!), it's inexcusable. I don't wanna overreact (but that's what Mondays are for this time of year!), my immediate thought last night was whether we need him on this team, especially when we already have Dissly & Hollister plus a talented rookie who should be available soon. Don't cut him yet I suppose, but he's gotta get his head in the game.
• DK -- what a beast. He took it right to the reigning DPOY and more than held his own. DK is pretty much the perfect complement to what Tyler Lockett brings to the offense, and it seems he's a near lock for a long TD nearly every game now. It's hard to imagine him not getting well over 1k yards and at least 10 TDs this year.

This one was definitely more of a nailbiter than it needed to be due to the early pick-6 and failure to get the 1 yard to essentially salt it away, it's a good start to the season. The offense is going to keep us in every game. What remains to be seen is how often the D will be able to get critical stops to keep the offense from having to be perfect at the end of the game in order to win. Most of the time Russell will pull it out, but as we know that is a tough way to get to a SB.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well, obviously a wild game. A few of my takeaways:

• 3rd & 1 with under 2 min. As much as "Let Russ Cook" is becoming a thing and passing from the 1 on 2nd down in SB49 was a good call (despite a bad outcome), we should have definitely stuck to the ground when we needed a 1st down to ice this game. Worst case there is CC gets stuffed, and NE either has to burn a TO or watch more than 25% of the rest of the time tick away before getting the ball deep on their own end and needing a TD to win. Letting Russ Cook doesn't mean you have to throw on every critical down.
• Injuries. Not sure I have seen a Sunday with so many bad ones across the league, so I guess we made out ok with only losing (presumably) Blair in this one. Irvin also had a scare but doesn't appear to be as serious. Same for Duane Brown, who got rolled up on but was able to come back in. With the way his knee bent awkwardly, I can't see how Blair isn't done for the year. And that sucks because all indications were he was really coming on.
• Our pass defense is a problem. The garbage time yards vs Atlanta didn't bother me, but in both games so far we have had a tough time getting off the field on 3rd & long. I think it's still too early to tell (from our vantage point) exactly what the problem is, but I am sure it's easy to lay it on the pass rush. Seems like DBs are still allowing pretty big cushions and also not doing very well on the 50/50 balls, which is not related to pass rush. Whatever it is, we need to make some fixes because last night was about as good as I've ever seen Cam Newton spin it. If we aren't able to pressure the thrower any better than this *and* playing loose coverage, Goff is going light us up. Probably Kyler Murray too.
• There is a good chance we are 0-2 right now without Jamal Adams. Russell is probably on a league MVP arc, but I don't see how we could have survived these games without the plays that Adams continues to make.
• Greg Olsen, wtf?? For a veteran to have a near perfect pass skip off his hands for a TD the other way and later brain cramp for a false start while lined up as a receiver (watch the ball!!!), it's inexcusable. I don't wanna overreact (but that's what Mondays are for this time of year!), my immediate thought last night was whether we need him on this team, especially when we already have Dissly & Hollister plus a talented rookie who should be available soon. Don't cut him yet I suppose, but he's gotta get his head in the game.
• DK -- what a beast. He took it right to the reigning DPOY and more than held his own. DK is pretty much the perfect complement to what Tyler Lockett brings to the offense, and it seems he's a near lock for a long TD nearly every game now. It's hard to imagine him not getting well over 1k yards and at least 10 TDs this year.

This one was definitely more of a nailbiter than it needed to be due to the early pick-6 and failure to get the 1 yard to essentially salt it away, it's a good start to the season. The offense is going to keep us in every game. What remains to be seen is how often the D will be able to get critical stops to keep the offense from having to be perfect at the end of the game in order to win. Most of the time Russell will pull it out, but as we know that is a tough way to get to a SB.

More or less agree with you. A couple of quibbles.

On the 3rd and 1 play, I think we have to take the bad with the good. Really no different than the 4th and 5 TD to Metcalf last week. They just didn't execute properly. That is going to happen and if we want this team to continue to be aggressive, which I think we all want, then we have to accept that sometimes we won't succeed.

Our pass defense is terrible. So far it is worse than it was last year. Not sure what exactly is going on but our corners need to tighten up and lock their receivers up for 4 seconds given our woeful pass coverage. Right now they are making it way too easy for opposing QBs.

With Irvin potentially out against the Cowboys, it's time for Schneider to pull a rabbit out of arse.

 

[JMR]

More or less agree with you. A couple of quibbles.

On the 3rd and 1 play, I think we have to take the bad with the good. Really no different than the 4th and 5 TD to Metcalf last week. They just didn't execute properly. That is going to happen and if we want this team to continue to be aggressive, which I think we all want, then we have to accept that sometimes we won't succeed.

Yeah, I am ok with being aggressive. But it's ok to be smart, too. In my view, the overwhelmingly smart thing to do on that 3rd and 1 play was to keep it on the ground. Of course a completion down the field would have been better, but it also has a much smaller chance of being successful. You could have had "success" on by running the ball there even if you don't pick up the 1st. As it happened, the play we ran got kinda knocked off the rails almost immediately with the poor snap. I think it threw the timing of the play off. And maybe it would have fouled up a handoff as well, but again even not picking up the 1st would have probably given us a better than 90% chance to win that game.

Our pass defense is terrible. So far it is worse than it was last year. Not sure what exactly is going on but our corners need to tighten up and lock their receivers up for 4 seconds given our woeful pass coverage. Right now they are making it way too easy for opposing QBs.

With Irvin potentially out against the Cowboys, it's time for Schneider to pull a rabbit out of arse.

I don't know why Alton Robinson has been inactive both games so far, but it might be time to see what he can do. Not that we should feel good about needing a rookie pass rusher to contribute, but he's received all sorts of compliments for the kind of camp he had but has curiously been a healthy scratch both weeks so far. I have hope for LJ Collier. He's made a splash play in each game, so the confidence should be building. I also think we probably missed at least a couple sacks last night due to the size and strength of the QB we were facing. I think it was Mayowa and Adams who each had him dead to rights on different plays and Cam got out of it when hardly anyone else would have. I've also never seen Cam throw the ball really anywhere close to how well he threw it last night.

 

[seattlefan75]

We also need to fix whats going on with the defense how the hell does Cam Newton throw for almost 400 yards?? You would think taking away the run game and forcing Cam to throw would be what you want but they had no issues moving the ball downfield. I would say that this is elite coaching on Bill Belichek but we cant have these QBs throw the ball all over the field this is back to back weeks where QBs are slinging it.

If we aren't on our game on defense Dak is going to have a field day their passing game as looked great this season we need to find a way to generate a pass rush nobody is doing shit out there.

 

[Anointed One]

Sounds like Irvin's injury is only a sprained knee at this point... That's great to hear... But Blair OTOH, looks to be a bit serious and season ending...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

We also need to fix whats going on with the defense how the hell does Cam Newton throw for almost 400 yards?? You would think taking away the run game and forcing Cam to throw would be what you want but they had no issues moving the ball downfield. I would say that this is elite coaching on Bill Belichek but we cant have these QBs throw the ball all over the field this is back to back weeks where QBs are slinging it.

If we aren't on our game on defense Dak is going to have a field day their passing game as looked great this season we need to find a way to generate a pass rush nobody is doing shit out there.

Because Ken Norton is a fucking idiot and continues to rush 3 or 4 and never blitz. They blitzed ONCE towards the end of the game and guess what, Cam let the ball sail and it was incomplete... 3rd and 10 and they're pinned inside their own 10 yard line. We rush 3 and drop 2 DEEP. I know Cam launched a deep ball and it was very well thrown (no way Adams can defend it) but give me a break.

I've been calling for Norton's head for at LEAST 2 years. Why Seattle continues to march him out there is beyond me.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Because Ken Norton is a fucking idiot and continues to rush 3 or 4 and never blitz. They blitzed ONCE towards the end of the game and guess what, Cam let the ball sail and it was incomplete... 3rd and 10 and they're pinned inside their own 10 yard line. We rush 3 and drop 2 DEEP. I know Cam launched a deep ball and it was very well thrown (no way Adams can defend it) but give me a break.

I've been calling for Norton's head for at LEAST 2 years. Why Seattle continues to march him out there is beyond me.

Agree on Norton but Pete is loyal to a fault. Look how long it took to get rid of Tom Cable despite the overwhelming evidence that he couldn't coach up an Oline for shit.

 

[flyerhawk]

Because Ken Norton is a fucking idiot and continues to rush 3 or 4 and never blitz. They blitzed ONCE towards the end of the game and guess what, Cam let the ball sail and it was incomplete... 3rd and 10 and they're pinned inside their own 10 yard line. We rush 3 and drop 2 DEEP. I know Cam launched a deep ball and it was very well thrown (no way Adams can defend it) but give me a break.

I've been calling for Norton's head for at LEAST 2 years. Why Seattle continues to march him out there is beyond me.

I think you are putting way too much value in blitzing all the time. It's only effective if the blitzer can actually get to the QB.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Could be a good game, but I like the Seahawks chances today.

It was and they pulled it out of the fire.

 

[JMR]

A positive note on our D: they clamped on the run. NE had over 200 rush yds in week 1. We bottled them up very well, and that's probably a big reason we won the game.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Happy with a W but damn, this nailbiting shit is getting tiresome. I give some credit to Cam for playing a solid game but if we got pressure on him, no way does he make half of those throws. He isn't that good of a passer.
I don't really have a big issue with the Diggs ejection. It is what it is and honestly, he needs to play smarter. The injury to Blair immediately afterward was a killer. Hill made a nice play to save the win but the secondary was pretty thin. Dunbar jumped 2 routes nicely and could have had a pick 6 on the first one but the lack of a pass rush is killing this D. Can't cover all game long. Can't rely on a 4 man rush with this front. Definitely need more creative approach but we've been saying this for a long time.
Offense is pretty damn good. RW is in MVP form and absolutely torched this vaunted secondary. 2 weeks in and 83% comp with 9 TDs. Honestly, if not for drops, has more TDs them incomplete passes. The whiff by Olsen was inexcusable. I was hesitant to get too excited week 1 because Atlanta's D is garbage but this was vs. one of the best and BB. I have to wonder if any of the media even noticed.
D.K. is legit and made Gilmore look pretty average. Carson and Hyde ran the ball well at 4.4 and 4.2 avg. I thought the Oline was pretty solid, for the most part as well. A couple of penalties and 2 sacks when NE brought pressure but better then past seasons, imo. Most drop backs, Russ had time to survey things and let the routes develop but Russ also made some quick decisions to take off and get big first downs. No surprise there. He's maybe the best ever in that regard.
2-0 and the Cowboys coming. Gonna be another high scoring nailbiter, I fear although I really hope we tear them a new one and blow them out. We need a break from this close finish shit.