Game Thread: NBA Summer League 2018

[shopson67]

Svi can be scary if this carries into the real season...

Don't know why he can't, other than getting enough minutes with the Lakers. He should only be MORE open playing with Lebron.

 

[Black Adam]

I just looked over the 2017 NBA draft and if I had to do a redraft I get really stuck after the 2nd pick. I'm actually even torn about who I would draft 1st too, Tatum or Mitchell. There were lots of injuries to top tier players, some guys who started slow and finished strong and vice versa. I honestly have no clue how I'd do a draft over right now, based solely off of the talent of players. It'd be much easier to see based on need of the teams.

I'd personally say Tatum, but i'd say it by the barest of margins...

 

[WiggyRuss]

I just looked over the 2017 NBA draft and if I had to do a redraft I get really stuck after the 2nd pick. I'm actually even torn about who I would draft 1st too, Tatum or Mitchell. There were lots of injuries to top tier players, some guys who started slow and finished strong and vice versa. I honestly have no clue how I'd do a draft over right now, based solely off of the talent of players. It'd be much easier to see based on need of the teams.

honestly....

you are right in a lot of ways.

the top tier is definitely Tatum and Mitchell.

after that there is a huge 2nd tier of players.

honestly- out of that 2nd tier, my third overall pick might very well be Markkanen. My #4 pick might very well be Isaac.

After that i think there is a group of Fultz, Jackson, Ball, Fox, Smith Jr., JOHN COLLINS, OG, Kuzma, that you could put in whatever order you would like

after that i think you have another tier with Ntilikina, Monk, Bam, Collins, Kennard, Leaf, Ojeleye,

 

[shopson67]

his FT% and shooting technique overall, his health going forward, and the baggage his dad brings. I dont think any of those things are outside the realm of relevancy.

I absoltuely think that Ball can be a Ricky-Rubio-Like passer, and a solid defender, and an elite rebounder for a guard---- but in todays NBA you cant be a guard that shoots 50% from the FT line.

His Dad is just noise. For all the talk that he would have to be traded in order for Lebron to come to LA, here we sit.

Of all things, why do you think a 19 year old rookie's shooting can't be improved? Technique doesn't matter much as long as there is confidence and repetition behind that stroke. He improved as the season went along, but the FT line bit not as much. Small sample size there though, as he didn't shoot many.

As far as his health, the Lakers used kid gloves on everyone last year. Minor aches and pains were rested and made sure not to develop into something else. Arthro knee surgery now was just waiting to see if regular rest would heal it first. Not a big deal IMO.

 

[shopson67]

honestly....

you are right in a lot of ways.

the top tier is definitely Tatum and Mitchell.

after that there is a huge 2nd tier of players.

honestly- out of that 2nd tier, my third overall pick might very well be Markkanen. My #4 pick might very well be Isaac.

After that i think there is a group of Fultz, Jackson, Ball, Fox, Smith Jr., JOHN COLLINS, OG, Kuzma, that you could put in whatever order you would like

after that i think you have another tier with Ntilikina, Monk, Bam, Collins, Kennard, Leaf, Ojeleye,

LOL, leaving out Josh...butthurt.

 

[CitySushi]

yahi think for the most part- its better not to look terrible than it is to look good.

Anthony Randolph balled out at the Summer League. I thought he was going to be something really special. On the flip side Draymond Green I think averaged 6.4 ppg and 7.6 ppg as a 4 year senior in his first summer league.

 

[CitySushi]

honestly....

you are right in a lot of ways.

the top tier is definitely Tatum and Mitchell.

after that there is a huge 2nd tier of players.

honestly- out of that 2nd tier, my third overall pick might very well be Markkanen. My #4 pick might very well be Isaac.

After that i think there is a group of Fultz, Jackson, Ball, Fox, Smith Jr., JOHN COLLINS, OG, Kuzma, that you could put in whatever order you would like

after that i think you have another tier with Ntilikina, Monk, Bam, Collins, Kennard, Leaf, Ojeleye,

How dare you not mention the GOAT Jordan Bell.

 

[CitySushi]

I'd personally say Tatum, but i'd say it by the barest of margins...

I'm with you on this too.

 

[Black Adam]

LOL, leaving out Josh...butthurt.

if Cleveland would've won last night Wiggy'd have BURIED us in posts today...

 

[WiggyRuss]

LOL, leaving out Josh...butthurt.

i just dont highly prize a 4 year college player that is already 23 years old.

I mean- Malik Monk has not had NEAR the success Hart has had- but i could never in good conscience take a guy like Hart over Monk at this point. Maybe after this season. Talent is what matters. Why you think a 23 year old dominating a summer league filled with teenagers and non prospects is impressive is beyond me.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I'm with you on this too.

I am going Mitchell- but it is so tough. I think Tatum has the better size, probably a little better athlete, maybe a little smater--- but i think Mitchell just has "It". I think if you switch Tatum for Mitchell the Celtics still get to the ECF Game 7, but i doubt the Jazz win a playoff series. Mitchell operated like a #1 as a rook. Thats crazy.

 

[WiggyRuss]

@CitySushi

biggeset values in last years draft, if you ask me, were obviously Mitchell as #1, Kuzma as #2, and I think John Collins as #3. Collins and Young is not a bad place to start if you are the Hawks.

 

[CitySushi]

I am going Mitchell- but it is so tough. I think Tatum has the better size, probably a little better athlete, maybe a little smater--- but i think Mitchell just has "It". I think if you switch Tatum for Mitchell the Celtics still get to the ECF Game 7, but i doubt the Jazz win a playoff series. Mitchell operated like a #1 as a rook. Thats crazy.

Mitchell's got that Baby D-Wade in him going on right now. I just love Tatum's skillset and size and defensive versatility. I think there's a lot that you could do with him and still be successful. I think for Mitchell you need the ball in his hands a lot more.

 

[shopson67]

i just dont highly prize a 4 year college player that is already 23 years old.

I mean- Malik Monk has not had NEAR the success Hart has had- but i could never in good conscience take a guy like Hart over Monk at this point. Maybe after this season. Talent is what matters. Why you think a 23 year old dominating a summer league filled with teenagers and non prospects is impressive is beyond me.

Summer league notwithstanding, Josh averaged 17/6 on .494/.415/.786 in increased minutes in April due to injuries to Ball and Ingram. He led the Lakers overall in 3 point shooting last year. He's not "emerging" in Summer League, just continuing what he started once he got consistent minutes last year.

Monk had a similar run at the end of last year. However, he doesn't bring the rebounding and defense that Josh does, so that shooting has to be superb to make up the difference IMO.

 

[CitySushi]

@CitySushi

biggeset values in last years draft, if you ask me, were obviously Mitchell as #1, Kuzma as #2, and I think John Collins as #3. Collins and Young is not a bad place to start if you are the Hawks.

I agree with you on the values. I think some other guys who went a bit under the radar and their production were Jarrett Allen and Dillon Brooks. Both look like solid players.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Summer league notwithstanding, Josh averaged 17/6 on .494/.415/.786 in increased minutes in April due to injuries to Ball and Ingram. He led the Lakers overall in 3 point shooting last year. He's not "emerging" in Summer League, just continuing what he started once he got consistent minutes last year.

Monk had a similar run at the end of last year. However, he doesn't bring the rebounding and defense that Josh does, so that shooting has to be superb to make up the difference IMO.

what do you think Malik Monk will look like in 3 years when he is 23 years old?

My point is, which must be going over your head, is that when you play 4 years in college you are exceedingly more likely to be prepared for the NBA.

As I said- i compare Hart to a player like a Brogdon. Brogdon played 4 years in college, came into the NBA and won rookie of the year since he was ready to perform. Now any asshole that would say- EVEN AFTER WINNING THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR- that Malcolm Brogdon was more valuable than players like Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Murray, Sabonis, Poetl, Chriss, Dunn, etc. would be a fool.

Jonathan Isaac spent a lot of last year hurt, and the rest of it struggling. However, he is an uber-athletic, 20 year old and both of us know that if the Lakers called up and offered Hart for Isaac right now they would get laughed off the phone. Just like if, after Brogdon winning ROY, if the Bucks called up the Lakers and said- wow, Ingram kinda sucked major ass his rookie year- and Brogdon won the ROY! Wanna trade? THe Lakers would laugh their ass off and hang up on the Bucks.

If you think for a millisecond that the Lakers could trade Hart, a guy who looks like he could be a pretty solid role player down the road- for actual high ceiling guys like Monk, Isaac, Jackson, Collins, Markennen, Ntilikina, Bam, Fox, DSJ etc....some of which Hart outperformed last year, than you are quite simply huffing glue. His value is not what you think it is by a long shot.

 

[shopson67]

what do you think Malik Monk will look like in 3 years when he is 23 years old?

My point is, which must be going over your head, is that when you play 4 years in college you are exceedingly more likely to be prepared for the NBA.

As I said- i compare Hart to a player like a Brogdon. Brogdon played 4 years in college, came into the NBA and won rookie of the year since he was ready to perform. Now any asshole that would say- EVEN AFTER WINNING THE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR- that Malcolm Brogdon was more valuable than players like Simmons, Ingram, Brown, Hield, Murray, Sabonis, Poetl, Chriss, Dunn, etc. would be a fool.

Jonathan Isaac spent a lot of last year hurt, and the rest of it struggling. However, he is an uber-athletic, 20 year old and both of us know that if the Lakers called up and offered Hart for Isaac right now they would get laughed off the phone. Just like if, after Brogdon winning ROY, if the Bucks called up the Lakers and said- wow, Ingram kinda sucked major ass his rookie year- and Brogdon won the ROY! Wanna trade? THe Lakers would laugh their ass off and hang up on the Bucks.

If you think for a millisecond that the Lakers could trade Hart, a guy who looks like he could be a pretty solid role player down the road- for actual high ceiling guys like Monk, Isaac, Jackson, Collins, Markennen, Ntilikina, Bam, Fox, DSJ etc....some of which Hart outperformed last year, than you are quite simply huffing glue. His value is not what you think it is by a long shot.

Many of your "high ceiling" guys will never get there. Will Monk? Remains to be seen, but if his shooting doesn't surpass average, he doesn't bring much else to the game. I'm not going to go through each of these names, but suffice it to say your groupings have some names that don't belong with the others. Kris Dunn, seriously? He's older than Hart.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I agree with you on the values. I think some other guys who went a bit under the radar and their production were Jarrett Allen and Dillon Brooks. Both look like solid players.

Og at #23 is a pretty damn good value too--- he might go top 10 in a redraft.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Many of your "high ceiling" guys will never get there. Will Monk? Remains to be seen, but if his shooting doesn't surpass average, he doesn't bring much else to the game. I'm not going to go through each of these names, but suffice it to say your groupings have some names that don't belong with the others. Kris Dunn, seriously? He's older than Hart.

obviously at this point with Dunn- but i was comparing Dunn to Brogdon since they were in the same draft class.

just like say Monk and Hart. Does it surprise me the 4 year college starter 23 year old has been better than a guy who played 1 year and came into the NBA as a teenager? of course not.

just like you would NEVER IN A MILLION years trade Ingram for Brogdon after their rookie seasons even though Brogdon was ROY and Ingram struggled mightily, just because Josh Hart, a 4 year starter showed that he was prepared to be a decent NBA more so than some teeangers- that does not mean BY A LONG shot that he will end up being better than any of those guys that have so much higher celings---- even if those guys dont reach their ceilings- a decent 3 and D guy like Brogdon or Hart- if indeed Hart continues to mature and even develops into that- is not near as valuablea as trying to develop a guy who can actually become a star and one of your guys you build your fracnhise around someday.

 

[CitySushi]

Og at #23 is a pretty damn good value too--- he might go top 10 in a redraft.

One guy I thought was a bust early on in the season was Zach Collins. Man he did a complete 180, IMO. With a bit more seasoning, I think he could be a really good player. He's got a lot of upside.