NBA Salary Cap Challenge Semi-Final 2

[Nosferatu]

Teams were required to stay under the $70,000,000 cap.

Please vote for the better team.

TEAM FOUR

STARTERS
PG - Michael Carter-Williams - $2,300,040
SG - Klay Thompson - $3,075,880
SF - LeBron James - $20,644,400
PF - Kevin Love - $15,719,062
C - Spencer Hawes - $5,305,000

BENCH
PG - Patrick Beverly $915,243
PG - Aaron Brooks - $915,243
PG - Ray McCallum - $816,482
SG/SF - Vince Carter - $3,911,381
SG/SF - Andrew Wiggins - $5,510,640
SF - Paul Pierce - $5,305,000
PF - Kenneth Faried - $2,249,768
PF - Johnny O'Bryant - $600,000
C - Miles Plumlee - $1,169,880
C - Donatas Motieujunas - $1,483,920
Total Team Salary: $69,921,939

VS

TEAM FIVE

STARTERS
PG - Tony Parker - $12,500,000
SG - Manu Ginobili - $7,000,000
SF - Kawahi Leonard - $2,894,059
PF - Tim Duncan - $10,361,446
C - Marc Gasol - $14,860,523

BENCH
PG - Mo Williams - $3,750,000
PG - Alec Burks - $2,341,929
SG - Kirk Hinrich - $2,732,000
SG - Marco Bellinelli - $2,873,750
SF - Danny Green - $3,762,500
SF - Wesley Johnson - $915,243
PF - Glen Davis - $1,227,985
PF/C - Matt Bonner - $915,243
PF - Markieff Morris - $2,091,840
C - Tyler Zeller - $1,703,760
Total Team Salary: $69,930,278

 

[wlk3]

Spurs can't sag on defense here... Lebron stat line 27/6/14ast...

 

[wlk3]

Also You'd probably see a lot of Patrick Beverly on Parker if MCW started to struggle... Maybe some Paul Pierce at the 3 with Lebron at the 4 and Love at the 5 late in the game... Just my opinion... The depth is too much for the old Timmy and Manu...

 

[trojanfan12]

Also You'd probably see a lot of Patrick Beverly on Parker if MCW started to struggle... Maybe some Paul Pierce at the 3 with Lebron at the 4 and Love at the 5 late in the game... Just my opinion... The depth is too much for the old Timmy and Manu...

Benches seem pretty equal to me.

 

[wlk3]

In order...

1) Paul Pierce - 4
2) Kenneth Faried - 4
3) Patrick Beverly - 4
4) Mo Williams - 5
5) Kirk Hinrich - 5
6) Vince Carter - 4
7) Danny Green - 5
8) Andrew Wiggins - 4
9) Marco Belinelli - 5
10) BigBaby - 5
11) Morris - 5
12) Plumlee - 4
13) Burks - 5
14) Bonner - 5
15) Montieijunis - 4
16) Wesley Johnson - 5
17) Aaron Brooks - 4
18) Tyler Zeller - 5
19) McCallum - 4
20) O'Bryant - 4

That's how I see it... I could probably change some here or there after the top 8, but that is the top 8... IMO... The 3 players that team 5 has in that top 8, 2 of them play either PG or SG... So team 5 is guard heavy which means they all can't play at the same time... So really only 2 will truly be used... Which furthers the advantage... If you add the next 2 players for team 5, 1 of them is a Guard too...

A look at the starters... Tony Parker, Marc Gasol are priming... Kawhi is playing well... Manu and Timmy are at the end of the road... Lebron and Love are priming... Klay is coming into his prime... MCW is playing well and Hawes is entering his prime as well...

These are the numbers for last year...

PG:
MCW - 16.7ppg/6.2rebs/6.3ast/1.9stls
Tony Parker - 16.7ppg/2.3rebs/5.7asts

SG:
Klay Thompson - 18.4ppg/3.1rebs/2.2ast
Manu Ginobili - 12.3ppg/3rebs/4.3ast

SF:
Lebron James - 27.1ppg/6.9rebs/6.3ast
Kawhi Leonard - 12.8ppg/6.2rebs/2ast

PF:
Kevin Love - 26.1ppg/12.5rebs/4.4ast
Tim Duncan - 15.1ppg/9.7rebs/3ast/1.9blks 29min

Center:
Hawes - 13.2ppg/8.3reb/3ast/1.2blks and .416% from 3pt land...
Gasol - 14.6ppg/7.2rebs/3.6ast/1.3blks and he doesn't shoot 3's

This isn't even close...

Gasol's strength is the same as Duncan... They both clog the lane very well... They can't do that here... Between Love and Hawes they are stretched... Neither are very fast and both are average on the boards... Speaking of the boards...

Rebounds:
Team 4 starting 5 - 8.3, 12.5, 6.9, 3.1, 6.2 = 37
Team 5 starting 5 - 7.2, 9.7, 6.2, 3, 2.3 = 28.5

Bench rebounding is even more lopsided...

This game should not be this close... Team 3 was a much better team and worse matchup and it was a blow out... Remember these players are to be evaluated on how they will play this year coming NOT prime years...

 

[Nosferatu]

Love the effort WLK.

 

[trojanfan12]

In order...

1) Paul Pierce - 4
2) Kenneth Faried - 4
3) Patrick Beverly - 4
4) Mo Williams - 5
5) Kirk Hinrich - 5
6) Vince Carter - 4
7) Danny Green - 5
8) Andrew Wiggins - 4
9) Marco Belinelli - 5
10) BigBaby - 5
11) Morris - 5
12) Plumlee - 4
13) Burks - 5
14) Bonner - 5
15) Montieijunis - 4
16) Wesley Johnson - 5
17) Aaron Brooks - 4
18) Tyler Zeller - 5
19) McCallum - 4
20) O'Bryant - 4

That's how I see it... I could probably change some here or there after the top 8, but that is the top 8... IMO... The 3 players that team 5 has in that top 8, 2 of them play either PG or SG... So team 5 is guard heavy which means they all can't play at the same time... So really only 2 will truly be used... Which furthers the advantage... If you add the next 2 players for team 5, 1 of them is a Guard too...

A look at the starters... Tony Parker, Marc Gasol are priming... Kawhi is playing well... Manu and Timmy are at the end of the road... Lebron and Love are priming... Klay is coming into his prime... MCW is playing well and Hawes is entering his prime as well...

These are the numbers for last year...

PG:
MCW - 16.7ppg/6.2rebs/6.3ast/1.9stls
Tony Parker - 16.7ppg/2.3rebs/5.7asts

SG:
Klay Thompson - 18.4ppg/3.1rebs/2.2ast
Manu Ginobili - 12.3ppg/3rebs/4.3ast

SF:
Lebron James - 27.1ppg/6.9rebs/6.3ast
Kawhi Leonard - 12.8ppg/6.2rebs/2ast

PF:
Kevin Love - 26.1ppg/12.5rebs/4.4ast
Tim Duncan - 15.1ppg/9.7rebs/3ast/1.9blks 29min

Center:
Hawes - 13.2ppg/8.3reb/3ast/1.2blks and .416% from 3pt land...
Gasol - 14.6ppg/7.2rebs/3.6ast/1.3blks and he doesn't shoot 3's

This isn't even close...

Gasol's strength is the same as Duncan... They both clog the lane very well... They can't do that here... Between Love and Hawes they are stretched... Neither are very fast and both are average on the boards... Speaking of the boards...

Rebounds:
Team 4 starting 5 - 8.3, 12.5, 6.9, 3.1, 6.2 = 37
Team 5 starting 5 - 7.2, 9.7, 6.2, 3, 2.3 = 28.5

Bench rebounding is even more lopsided...

This game should not be this close... Team 3 was a much better team and worse matchup and it was a blow out... Remember these players are to be evaluated on how they will play this year coming NOT prime years...

What you're not taking into account is familiarity and cohesion. Team 5 has 4 starters who all play together (and just won the championship), a 5th starter whose game fits into any system and 3 more players off the bench who are on the same team as 4 of the starters.

Not to mention team 5 has the finals mvp.

I also think your a bit off on your rankings of the bench players. And how "at the end of the road" did Timmy and Manu look in the finals?

Starters:

Parker > MCW - by a good margin
Manu = Klay - Klay is younger and more athletic, but Manu has more experience.
Kawahi < Lebron - Lebron by a good bit, but Kawahi won't back down and makes Lebron work hard.
Timmy > Love - Timmy by a good bit. Timmy will play defense. Love can't spell defense.
Gasol > Hawes - Gasol is one of, if not the best center in the league. He can score from up to 18 ft., plays defense and is one of the best passing bigs in the game.

Bench is about equal. I give the edge to team 5 based on chemistry.


Here is the problem with your stats post. The stats you posted, while pretty, don't take into consideration that 4 of the 5 players you listed had to play more minutes and were basically all their teams had. Love is a prime example. Do you really think he is going to average what he did in Minny while playing alongside Lebron and Kyrie? It's likely that he'll have numbers that are closer to Bosh in Miami than what he had with Minny.


The point of these drafts isn't to just look at what these players did on their own teams. It's to look at how well they are likely to play together. You are posting stats that they are unlikely to achieve playing together. Team 5's stats would be more realistic because that's what 7 of team 5's players posted while actually playing together on the same team.


Just having Lebron on the team will decrease the stats of just about everyone on team 4.

 

[wlk3]

What you're not taking into account is familiarity and cohesion. Team 5 has 4 starters who all play together (and just won the championship), a 5th starter whose game fits into any system and 3 more players off the bench who are on the same team as 4 of the starters.

Not to mention team 5 has the finals mvp.

I also think your a bit off on your rankings of the bench players. And how "at the end of the road" did Timmy and Manu look in the finals?

Starters:

Parker > MCW - by a good margin
Manu = Klay - Klay is younger and more athletic, but Manu has more experience.
Kawahi < Lebron - Lebron by a good bit, but Kawahi won't back down and makes Lebron work hard.
Timmy > Love - Timmy by a good bit. Timmy will play defense. Love can't spell defense.
Gasol > Hawes - Gasol is one of, if not the best center in the league. He can score from up to 18 ft., plays defense and is one of the best passing bigs in the game.

Bench is about equal. I give the edge to team 5 based on chemistry.


Here is the problem with your stats post. The stats you posted, while pretty, don't take into consideration that 4 of the 5 players you listed had to play more minutes and were basically all their teams had. Love is a prime example. Do you really think he is going to average what he did in Minny while playing alongside Lebron and Kyrie? It's likely that he'll have numbers that are closer to Bosh in Miami than what he had with Minny.


The point of these drafts isn't to just look at what these players did on their own teams. It's to look at how well they are likely to play together. You are posting stats that they are unlikely to achieve playing together. Team 5's stats would be more realistic because that's what 7 of team 5's players posted while actually playing together on the same team.


Just having Lebron on the team will decrease the stats of just about everyone on team 4.

So you're saying you have nothing...

You take the stance that the team a person picks is about cohesion, then disregard the team that is put around Lebron... He has a player like Wade in MCW who drives dishes and plays D... Then the 2 of them are surrounded by 3 of the best 3pt shooters in the league!

Lebron isn't kicking to Bosh who can hit a three every third game... He hits Hawes who shoots 41% from 3... He's not passing to Mario Chalmers he's passing to Klay Thompson, a "splash brother"... That's right 41% from 3 point land too... He's not passing to Birdman/Haslem/anybody else he's passing to Kevin Love sadly he only shoots 37%...

So yeah, Duncan and Gasol play D... I agree without a doubt... But where do they play...? Who did Timmy play when the Spurs played the Heat...? He didn't leave the paint... Gasol is the same way... They clog the paint... Their team funnels the drive into them and they play positional defense without fouling... They now must guard great 3pt shooting...

And one thing I didn't point out... Team 4s starters combine for 23.7 assists per game... So eventhough all 5 guys scored at a high clip, they all passed it well too... Compare that to 18.6... It's funny how you discount facts with hypothetical then talk about how the team 5 played together and now faces a hypothetical team... So ignore all the work the players did because they weren't on a team together... Well Spencer Hawes wasn't the best player on his team, Klay Thompson was at best the 3rd option, Kevin Love isn't a PG or a point Forward... They all had to earn their money... Kevin Love was double and triple teamed... What's the chances of that happening here... Manu gets beat down in the post vs Klay who's gonna help...?

And the bench...

Patrick Beverly > Mo Williams
Vince Carter > Kirk/Green/Bellinili
Paul Pierce >> Danny Green/Wesley Johnson
Kenneth Farried >> It doesn't even matter
Miles Plumlee > Tyler Zeller

Seriously... How is this even close...? Not to mention we don't even know how good Wiggins is going to be...

MCW << Parker
Klay > Manu (Prime Manu is >> than Klay, this Manu is close but not as good)
Lebron >>> Kawhi (I love Kawhi and hate Lebron but come on man.... Moral victory...?)
Love > Timmy (Timmy is still good, but Love is in his prime... Tim is playing 27 minutes a game...)
Hawes < Gasol (Marc is close to << because of his D, but Hawes is beast too... And he's on a team with 2 guys looking to get him open 3s... You also state Gasol is 1 of the best passing bigs yet his assist 3.6, Hawes 3.0...)

Again, I understand you're whole chemistry thing... But this is the Team the Pat Riley wished he had... This is closer to the team that beat the Spurs than the team that lost to the Spurs... Difference is, this team is better than both of those teams by a lot...

 

[wlk3]

Love the effort WLK.

I do what I can when I do what I do...

thanks

 

[Nosferatu]

Voting ends at 12:00pm EST

 

[Ritzarmy]

Voting ends at 12:00pm EST

If that is 12pm EST time today then Team 4 wins (6-5)

 

[Ritzarmy]

CLOSED

 

[trojanfan12]

So you're saying you have nothing...

You take the stance that the team a person picks is about cohesion, then disregard the team that is put around Lebron... He has a player like Wade in MCW who drives dishes and plays D... Then the 2 of them are surrounded by 3 of the best 3pt shooters in the league!

Lebron isn't kicking to Bosh who can hit a three every third game... He hits Hawes who shoots 41% from 3... He's not passing to Mario Chalmers he's passing to Klay Thompson, a "splash brother"... That's right 41% from 3 point land too... He's not passing to Birdman/Haslem/anybody else he's passing to Kevin Love sadly he only shoots 37%...

So yeah, Duncan and Gasol play D... I agree without a doubt... But where do they play...? Who did Timmy play when the Spurs played the Heat...? He didn't leave the paint... Gasol is the same way... They clog the paint... Their team funnels the drive into them and they play positional defense without fouling... They now must guard great 3pt shooting...

And one thing I didn't point out... Team 4s starters combine for 23.7 assists per game... So eventhough all 5 guys scored at a high clip, they all passed it well too... Compare that to 18.6... It's funny how you discount facts with hypothetical then talk about how the team 5 played together and now faces a hypothetical team... So ignore all the work the players did because they weren't on a team together... Well Spencer Hawes wasn't the best player on his team, Klay Thompson was at best the 3rd option, Kevin Love isn't a PG or a point Forward... They all had to earn their money... Kevin Love was double and triple teamed... What's the chances of that happening here... Manu gets beat down in the post vs Klay who's gonna help...?

And the bench...

Patrick Beverly > Mo Williams
Vince Carter > Kirk/Green/Bellinili
Paul Pierce >> Danny Green/Wesley Johnson
Kenneth Farried >> It doesn't even matter
Miles Plumlee > Tyler Zeller

Seriously... How is this even close...? Not to mention we don't even know how good Wiggins is going to be...

MCW << Parker
Klay > Manu (Prime Manu is >> than Klay, this Manu is close but not as good)
Lebron >>> Kawhi (I love Kawhi and hate Lebron but come on man.... Moral victory...?)
Love > Timmy (Timmy is still good, but Love is in his prime... Tim is playing 27 minutes a game...)
Hawes < Gasol (Marc is close to << because of his D, but Hawes is beast too... And he's on a team with 2 guys looking to get him open 3s... You also state Gasol is 1 of the best passing bigs yet his assist 3.6, Hawes 3.0...)

Again, I understand you're whole chemistry thing... But this is the Team the Pat Riley wished he had... This is closer to the team that beat the Spurs than the team that lost to the Spurs... Difference is, this team is better than both of those teams by a lot...

Well, got busy and didn't get a chance to respond. But here goes anyway.


Yeah, because chemistry means nothing and having Lebron on your team guarantees a title. Oh wait.....maybe not considering he is 2-3 in finals appearances.


The problem with your stats is that they are all about what those players did separately and not how they would perform together in a situation where they are not the focal point of the team.

Additionally, disagree about Patrick Beverly. I also disagree about Paul Pierce and Vinsanity. It was made clear that we are talking about current level, not in their prime. PP and Vinsanity are NOT in their prime. Not even close anymore.

Congrats to team 4.