Mizzou hit with postseason ban next year

[alt1001]

you are getting into details about a scandal like this being legal or not in terms of classes.

Correct, because that is the only way the NCAA could have punished UNC otherwise it would have turned into a civil matter.

You're trying to blur the lines between your own personal feelings and why the NCAA didn't do anything.

The NCAA didn't let UNC walk because Sankey didn't have the same feelings as you. They let UNC walk because LEGALLY they had no other recourse.

 

[ralphiewvu]

The Penn State debacle as it related to Penn State, only resided within the athletic department. Now while a lot of legalities and overreach were ironed out, anything dealt solely within athletics is strictly within the NCAA's wheelhouse.

Contrast that to UNC where academics in regards to course rigor and accreditation, is NOWHERE near the NCAA's wheelhouse. They can't touch it as it pertains to students not under the NCAA's control. The NCAA is an athletic enforcer not academic.

As for the the NCAA being a justice system, nobody ever said they were. They are still an organization of bylaws and have to hold institutions to those bylaws. If they choose to deviate from that, they will be held accountable.

You are wrong, they had no legal association to punish UNC and they knew it.

You are wrong. You have no clue what was “ironed out.” Again the NCAA is not the justice dept. they have no basis for giving PSU a ban for the heinous crimes. It did not give the athletic dept an advantage in any way. This is no where near the NCAA wheelhouse.

However creating fake classes to help UNC basketball players pass school is in the NCAA wheelhouse. Unfortunately they were to chicken shit to do anything because the NCAA clearly has a UNC bias.

It’s not my fault you are too stupid to see the NCAA had absolute authority to punish UNC considering the classes held in question where considered fake by the NCAA and UNC ATHELETES took them.

You Are Wrong.

 

[ralphiewvu]

You do realize this is a contradiction, correct? A loophole is NOT an explicitly written provision of a bylaw.

Creating a rule that clearly contradicts the purpose of something is the definition of a loophole.

 

[amszete]

Correct, because that is the only way the NCAA could have punished UNC otherwise it would have turned into a civil matter.

You're trying to blur the lines between your own personal feelings and why the NCAA didn't do anything.

The NCAA didn't let UNC walk because Sankey didn't have the same feelings as you. They let UNC walk because LEGALLY they had no other recourse.

Actually the point I am trying to make you are making for me really. UNC knew that the NCAA most likely had no jurisdiction in terms of the university offering BS classes to students and athletes. So to CHEAT THE SYSTEM that is what they did. And they would have kept on cheating the system with the school officials doing nothing unless they were called out by the whistle-blower I mentioned in a previous post. The only reason I am posting on this is because you appeared to make this situation matter of legality and it was much more than that to Ralphie's point.

 

[ralphiewvu]

Actually the point I am trying to make you are making for me really. UNC knew that the NCAA most likely had no jurisdiction in terms of the university offering BS classes to students and athletes. So to CHEAT THE SYSTEM that is what they did. And they would have kept on cheating the system with the school officials doing nothing unless they were called out by the whistle-blower I mentioned in a previous post. The only reason I am posting on this is because you appeared to make this situation matter of legality and it was much more than that to Ralphie's point.

Very well said, even for a hokie

 

[alt1001]

Creating a rule that clearly contradicts the purpose of something is the definition of a loophole.

Nope. The NCAA has limited authority on academics as they are an athletic enforcer. They can't overreach into academics that deal with the general student population as the general student population doesn't fall within their control.

It's not contradictory, it's simply that can't extend their reach any further.

 

[alt1001]

It’s not my fault you are too stupid to see the NCAA had absolute authority to punish UNC considering the classes held in question where considered fake by the NCAA and UNC ATHELETES took them.

You Are Wrong.

You obviously have no basic understanding of bylaws and legalities. You are absolutely wrong as you sit here and insinuate that the NCAA should have just made up bylaws to punish UNC. It would have been taken court and the NCAA WOULD HAVE LOST. Get that through your skull.

When SACS deemed the courses would stand, they stood as legally legitimate courses. When the courses were offered to ALL of the general student population, they didn't violate the NCAA's explicitly written rule. The NCAA had no justification within their control. Had they tried, it would have turned into a civil matter that the NCAA had no way of winning.

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[alt1001]

Actually the point I am trying to make you are making for me really. UNC knew that the NCAA most likely had no jurisdiction in terms of the university offering BS classes to students and athletes. So to CHEAT THE SYSTEM that is what they did. And they would have kept on cheating the system with the school officials doing nothing unless they were called out by the whistle-blower I mentioned in a previous post. The only reason I am posting on this is because you appeared to make this situation matter of legality and it was much more than that to Ralphie's point.

I understood what you were insinuating, except that it aligns with none of the evidence. Had the NCAA found evidence that UNC set up fraudulent classes to skirt their jurisdiction, that would have been no different than blatant disregard for the NCAA's rules and would have justified a punishment. Again, you're speaking on personal beliefs, not those backed up by 6 years of fact gathering.

And again, we go back to the fact that establishment of these courses was followed by an overwhelming majority non-athletic enrollment.

Could it not be that simply these courses were established like many other easy courses in every college in American until athletes realized their potential? That there was no other ulterior motives? That's what the record established through the facts. Debbie Crowder stated she ran these courses to benefit all students and nothing else.

 

[amszete]

I understood what you were insinuating, except that it aligns with none of the evidence. Had the NCAA found evidence that UNC set up fraudulent classes to skirt their jurisdiction, that would have been no different than blatant disregard for the NCAA's rules and would have justified a punishment. Again, you're speaking on personal beliefs, not those backed up by 6 years of fact gathering.

And again, we go back to the fact that establishment of these courses was followed by an overwhelming majority non-athletic enrollment.

Could it not be that simply these courses were established like many other easy courses in every college in American until athletes realized their potential? That there was no other ulterior motives? That's what the record established through the facts. Debbie Crowder stated she ran these courses to benefit all students and nothing else.

Bless your soul if you really believe that. Even AG / OD can determine right from wrong.

N.C.A.A.: North Carolina Will Not Be Punished for Academic Scandal
The scheme involved nearly 200 laxly administered and graded classes — frequently requiring no attendance and just one paper — over nearly two decades in the African and Afro-American Studies Department. Their students were disproportionately athletes, especially in the lucrative, high-profile sports of football and men’s basketball. They were mostly administered by a staff member named Deborah Crowder. In many cases, athletes were steered to the classes by athletics academic advisers.

The scandal was so serious that the university’s accreditation body briefly placed the university on probation.

 

[7Samurai13]

Nope. The NCAA has limited authority on academics as they are an athletic enforcer. They can't overreach into academics that deal with the general student population as the general student population doesn't fall within their control.

It's not contradictory, it's simply that can't extend their reach any further.

So then you believe that the NCAA has no leg to stand on in punishing Notre Dame or Missouri since the NCAA has no jurisdiction in the education arena.

 

[alt1001]

Bless your soul if you really believe that. Even AG / OD can determine right from wrong.

N.C.A.A.: North Carolina Will Not Be Punished for Academic Scandal
The scheme involved nearly 200 laxly administered and graded classes — frequently requiring no attendance and just one paper — over nearly two decades in the African and Afro-American Studies Department. Their students were disproportionately athletes, especially in the lucrative, high-profile sports of football and men’s basketball. They were mostly administered by a staff member named Deborah Crowder. In many cases, athletes were steered to the classes by athletics academic advisers.

The scandal was so serious that the university’s accreditation body briefly placed the university on probation.

You do realize that what you just quoted does not go against what I stated in bold, right? The reasoning behind the course establishment is not anywhere discussed in what you just quoted. The NCAA didn't touch it and for good reason.

Try again.

 

[alt1001]

So then you believe that the NCAA has no leg to stand on in punishing Notre Dame or Missouri since the NCAA has no jurisdiction in the education arena.

I never said they didn't have jurisdiction in academics, they just have limited jurisdiction. Every case in unique and in the case of UNC they didn't have authority to determine whether or not the courses were legitimate as they didn't legitimize them in the first place. Huge difference between that and tutors writing papers solely for athletes, in an NCAA sense.

 

[7Samurai13]

I never said they didn't have jurisdiction in academics, they just have limited jurisdiction. Every case in unique and in the case of UNC they didn't have authority to determine whether or not the courses were legitimate as they didn't legitimize them in the first place. Huge difference between that and tutors writing papers solely for athletes, in an NCAA sense.

Creating classes where “students” don’t have to show up or do work in order to artificially raise their GPA in order to keep them athletically eligible is no different.

 

[alt1001]

Creating classes where “students” don’t have to show up or do work in order to artificially raise their GPA in order to keep them athletically eligible is no different.

They proved they were created for athletes. That is the difference.

 

[socaljim242]

the NCAA is a useless . UNC got away with it because they allowed some regular students to take advantage of the BS classes. Regular students not getting a real education makes the University a joke. The NCAA allowing this after it was shown to take place for many years and making hundreds of athletes remain eligible is just nuts. But they punish Notre dame harder for a tutor working with about five players in one season.
As far as Penn State goes. Why would you say it didn't benefit the program. The only reason to cover that shit up was so a spotlight wouldn't be put on the program where the second longest tenured coach in the schools history was a monster. Not having the negative press was a benefit to the football program.

 

[alt1001]

the NCAA is a useless . UNC got away with it because they allowed some regular students to take advantage of the BS classes. Regular students not getting a real education makes the University a joke. The NCAA allowing this after it was shown to take place for many years and making hundreds of athletes remain eligible is just nuts. But they punish Notre dame harder for a tutor working with about five players in one season.

They couldn't punish UNC because they didn't establish jurisdiction. If there is an issue, ask the NCAA to redefine their rules which is exactly what happened they realized their rules didn't suffice for the UNC case.

UNC scandal forces NCAA to redefine its academic misconduct policy

There's no sense in comparing UNC's case to anyone else's in this regard as they are apples and oranges.

 

[socaljim242]

They couldn't punish UNC because they didn't establish jurisdiction. If there is an issue, ask the NCAA to redefine their rules which is exactly what happened they realized their rules didn't suffice for the UNC case.

UNC scandal forces NCAA to redefine its academic misconduct policy

There's no sense in comparing UNC's case to anyone else's in this regard as they are apples and oranges.

They found a loophole. Give everyone fake classes and you can't get on them for keeping athletes eligible with fake classes. Congrats on UNC being better at cheating than educating. You must be proud.

 

[7Samurai13]

They couldn't punish UNC because they didn't establish jurisdiction. If there is an issue, ask the NCAA to redefine their rules which is exactly what happened they realized their rules didn't suffice for the UNC case.

UNC scandal forces NCAA to redefine its academic misconduct policy

There's no sense in comparing UNC's case to anyone else's in this regard as they are apples and oranges.

Next time, the TA/tutor should make sure to write a paper for a regular student then there is nothing any one can do because if you cheat for non-athlete it makes everything ok.

 

[alt1001]

They found a loophole. Give everyone fake classes and you can't get on them for keeping athletes eligible with fake classes. Congrats on UNC being better at cheating than educating. You must be proud.

How is it a loophole when it's an explicitly written provision of the NCAA's bylaw?

What actually happened is that you were fed lies through the media and it caused the NCAA to dive into a matter that wasn't there's to dive into. Once they realized it, they were neck deep and drowning. They had no recourse but to walk away with their tails tucked between their legs.

It wasn't a loophole. That's just your way of reconciling the events that unfolded.

 

[alt1001]

Next time, the TA/tutor should make sure to write a paper for a regular student then there is nothing any one can do because if you cheat for non-athlete it makes everything ok.

That's exactly what the NCAA's rule states. You don't have to like it, but you're now understanding it.