Mike Tomlin...

[Superbelt]

Exactly. Until it hurts his pockets, nothing will change.

Little Artie just isn't a football guy... plain & simple. His dad & grandpa were. Artie is a business man pretending to be a football guy.

And honestly, even Art wasn't really a football guy. He was a horse guy, first.

It was always Dan Rooney. Art sucked at building teams as much as Art II does. Dan started taking over in 1960, and that led to the 6 SuperBowls.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

And honestly, even Art wasn't really a football guy. He was a horse guy, first.

It was always Dan Rooney. Art sucked at building teams as much as Art II does. Dan started taking over in 1960, and that led to the 6 SuperBowls.

Truth. Dan was the catalyst. Art Sr just paved the way.

 

[Clayton]

Look... We understand the current picture is bad with all the bad decisions they made last offseason...

• Missing out on the FA QBs and resorting to begging Aaron Rodgers not to retire
• Signing Darius Slay to start opposite JPJ was a laughable decision. Can't cover & cowers from contact.
• Swapping Fitzpatrick for Jalen Ramsey was a TERRIBLE move. I was onboard with trading Fitz, but doing it for a declining CB and paying out the ass was a very poor business decision.
• Extending TJ Watt in belief that his game would age well, and it hasn't.
• Signing a $150m WR2 to parade as WR1. Square peg meet round hole.

As someone already said, a lot of what this team did last offseason wreeeaked of desperation. They made this bed. If you paid any attention to all the Steelers fans around these parts heading into this season, you would know that we already punted this season away before it began. We have been laughing at all the casuals in an uproar because they bought in.

Those that choose to focus on this season are not seeing the whole picture. But we get it. If you aren't a fan of the team & watching it weekly for the past decade you wouldn't understand all the issues we've seen, and the common themes we've grown accustomed to.

To me it seems like every decision was made under the idea that the Steelers were 'almost there' with a SB level roster but if you make too many of those decisions then the roster becomes mid very quickly. You guys are the Seattle/Geno Smith/Pete Carroll team.

 

[BeaReylo]

Rodgers is an asshole.

 

[Brees#1]

To me it seems like every decision was made under the idea that the Steelers were 'almost there' with a SB level roster but if you make too many of those decisions then the roster becomes mid very quickly. You guys are the Seattle/Geno Smith/Pete Carroll team.

So the Steelers don't have a competent owner.

 

[Superbelt]

To me it seems like every decision was made under the idea that the Steelers were 'almost there' with a SB level roster but if you make too many of those decisions then the roster becomes mid very quickly. You guys are the Seattle/Geno Smith/Pete Carroll team.

Exactly. This is what frustrates us so much the last 5 years. They sign guys, and trade for guys and it does just enough to keep their win record, but it does nothing to build a foundation for a winning team in the future.

Like last year they traded a 5th round pick for Mike Williams mid-season. Barely used him and let him walk after. So there is nothing to build on for the future.

This year they traded away Minkah for a broken-down Ramsey to play CB (Creating a FS hole), who now is filling the FS spot that Minkah was in because he can't hack it at CB anymore. So it's a wash. We traded a younger All-Pro FS, and got a guy who is servicable at it in exchange (For a lot of money too). So in the balance it's a downgrade.

It's just a lot of treading water. And Tomlin gets to be NHALS (Never Had A Losing Season). That's the only thing that is gained. Draft position sucks, and draft capital is traded away. So they can't properly retool. Old guys like Heyward are eating up enormous cap charges based on prior years' service.

 

[THUNDER]

Every Steelers coach was lucky t o have worked for the best owners in ANY sport.
They hire people and get the eff outta the way.

 

[Diamondeye]

They hire people and get the eff outta the way.

Just like Jerry Jones!

 

[THUNDER]

Just like Jerry Jones!

We Cowboy fans wish.!

 

[ducky]

horse-fiking shit. you have no idea what you're talking about, and that's okay, because you're not a fan of the team and you don't see the repeated disappointments like steeler fans do. this team has been underachieving for YEARS, years where they inarguably had one of the more talented rosters in the league.

Steeler fans have on a whole (like most fans) MASSIVELY overrated the talent on their roster.

What you have rolled out on offense the last 6-7 years on offense is ******* laughable and EASILY one of the worst teams in the league in terms of offensive talent during that span taken as a whole.

The QB's have sucked. Extremely limited, old QB's. And that was during their BEST years during these spans.

Combine that with what has been over that period with a terrible OL during the beginning of this span to average at best currently and it is a recipe for poor offense.

Then you get to add in that the Steelers over the years have ALWAYS had subpar skill position players on offense over this span and you get the bottom of the league offense that you have seen over the years from that unit.

And yes the defense has at times during this span been very good. But this isnt the 1970's anymore. Most coaches cant win with a very good defense and a complete crap offense anymore. And the offense has been crap not because of coaching but because that is what is on the roster on that side of the ball.

 

[Superbelt]

Steeler fans have on a whole (like most fans) MASSIVELY overrated the talent on their roster.

What you have rolled out on offense the last 6-7 years on offense is ******* laughable and EASILY one of the worst teams in the league in terms of offensive talent during that span taken as a whole.

The QB's have sucked. Extremely limited, old QB's. And that was during their BEST years during these spans.

Combine that with what has been over that period with a terrible OL during the beginning of this span to average at best currently and it is a recipe for poor offense.

Then you get to add in that the Steelers over the years have ALWAYS had subpar skill position players on offense over this span and you get the bottom of the league offense that you have seen over the years from that unit.

And yes the defense has at times during this span been very good. But this isnt the 1970's anymore. Most coaches cant win with a very good defense and a complete crap offense anymore. And the offense has been crap not because of coaching but because that is what is on the roster on that side of the ball.

Yeah, we know.

Let's look at 2021. They drafted Najee Harris, then Pat Freiermuth, then Kendrick Green
Najee Harris, when they should have taken Landon Dickerson or Creed Humphries. We deseperately needed a center. And Harris turned out to be a mid guy. In the last few years we were playing him as a workhorse over better RB's like Jaylen Warren.
Round 2, still needed an OC, and Creed Humphries was still available. But they draft Pat Freiermuth instead. Nice player, but we really needed that Center bad.
Round 3, still need a center. So they draft an undersized guard to play center, and then are surprised when Ben's last year is garbage cause the rookie couldn't handle ANYONE. Mason Cole ended up taking over for him, and wasn't much better.
That was all a self inflicted wound. They had two pro-bowl OC's available, and they chose to look elsewhere when it was a GLARING hole.
Until last year Center was 6 years of pure garbage (and really Pouncey was a liability for 2 years before he retired too). You can't have a successful offense when your Center can't hold back anything.

Other examples are drafting Kevin Dotson, and then choosing to play him at LG, when he was a RG only. He underperforms on the left, is left to walk, and then he thrives outside of Pittsburgh when put in his natural position. And we still ended up needing to fill that RG position, too, after he left.

The neverending parade of shit QB's that they kept picking up. That was a choice.

 

[Superbelt]

DK Metcalf cost us a 2nd round pick. He wasn't some missing piece that kept us from competing for a title, so again we mortgaged the future to keep treading water.

We could have embraced the suck this year, let the expensive defensive talent walk when their contracts expire rather than extending broken old guys like Heyward, roll with Mason and/or Will Howard, still trade George Pickens, and be in a position to reload for the future.

But no, we keep doing just enough. But it's keeping us from ever really moving ahead.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Yeah, we know.

Let's look at 2021. They drafted Najee Harris, then Pat Freiermuth, then Kendrick Green
Najee Harris, when they should have taken Landon Dickerson or Creed Humphries. We deseperately needed a center. And Harris turned out to be a mid guy. In the last few years we were playing him as a workhorse over better RB's like Jaylen Warren.
Round 2, still needed an OC, and Creed Humphries was still available. But they draft Pat Freiermuth instead. Nice player, but we really needed that Center bad.
Round 3, still need a center. So they draft an undersized guard to play center, and then are surprised when Ben's last year is garbage cause the rookie couldn't handle ANYONE. Mason Cole ended up taking over for him, and wasn't much better.
That was all a self inflicted wound. They had two pro-bowl OC's available, and they chose to look elsewhere when it was a GLARING hole.
Until last year Center was 6 years of pure garbage (and really Pouncey was a liability for 2 years before he retired too). You can't have a successful offense when your Center can't hold back anything.

Other examples are drafting Kevin Dotson, and then choosing to play him at LG, when he was a RG only. He underperforms on the left, is left to walk, and then he thrives outside of Pittsburgh when put in his natural position. And we still ended up needing to fill that RG position, too, after he left.

The neverending parade of shit QB's that they kept picking up. That was a choice.

 

[Diamondeye]

Steeler fans have on a whole (like most fans) MASSIVELY overrated the talent on their roster.

What you have rolled out on offense the last 6-7 years on offense is ******* laughable and EASILY one of the worst teams in the league in terms of offensive talent during that span taken as a whole.

The QB's have sucked. Extremely limited, old QB's. And that was during their BEST years during these spans.

Combine that with what has been over that period with a terrible OL during the beginning of this span to average at best currently and it is a recipe for poor offense.

Then you get to add in that the Steelers over the years have ALWAYS had subpar skill position players on offense over this span and you get the bottom of the league offense that you have seen over the years from that unit.

And yes the defense has at times during this span been very good. But this isnt the 1970's anymore. Most coaches cant win with a very good defense and a complete crap offense anymore. And the offense has been crap not because of coaching but because that is what is on the roster on that side of the ball.

You cannot insulate Tomlin from the roster issues, given how long he has been the coach. You just can't.

As was said earlier in the thread, the Steelers had the same opportunities to "buy low" on guys like Mayfield and Darnold that other teams did, but decided to go that route with Mitch Trubusky and Justin Fields instead.

The OL play has been subpar for most of Tomlin's tenure as coach, even when they were going to Superbowls. He just doesn't know how to build truly solid OLs.

The same can be said for the secondary play since the best DBs Tomlin inherited from Cowher retired.

I am appreciative of what Tomlin has done for the Steelers (more so early on), but he honestly should have left when Roethlisberger retired, but probably sooner, as the second half of Ben's prime was basically pissed away.

BtW, I do get a kick out of Steelers fans being lectured on how appreciative we should be of the three playoff wins Tomlin has given us since Gaddafi was still in power in Libya.

Good stuff.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

DK Metcalf cost us a 2nd round pick. He wasn't some missing piece that kept us from competing for a title, so again we mortgaged the future to keep treading water.

We could have embraced the suck this year, let the expensive defensive talent walk when their contracts expire rather than extending broken old guys like Heyward, roll with Mason and/or Will Howard, still trade George Pickens, and be in a position to reload for the future.

But no, we keep doing just enough. But it's keeping us from ever really moving ahead.

Mortgaging the future with bad use of draft capital, salary cap, etc... And investing too much money into players past their primes that have lost interest...

This is genuine hell.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

The OL play has been subpar for most of Tomlin's tenure as coach, even when they were going to Superbowls. He just doesn't know how to build truly solid OLs.

Somewhat disagree here. They had a top 5 unit for the majority of 2011-2018. Its worth mentioning that this entire unit all fell apart after Munchak left. They really didn't invest into the OL and were truly spoiled for several years under Munchak. He turned UDFA's into starters.

They didn't get serious about overhauling the OL until 2023. They've made a lot of investments since then, and yet the product is still wildly inconsistent. Pat Meyer deserves a lot of heat for this, but still somehow has a job.

 

[ducky]

You cannot insulate Tomlin from the roster issues, given how long he has been the coach. You just can't.

As was said earlier in the thread, the Steelers had the same opportunities to "buy low" on guys like Mayfield and Darnold that other teams did, but decided to go that route with Mitch Trubusky and Justin Fields instead.

The OL play has been subpar for most of Tomlin's tenure as coach, even when they were going to Superbowls. He just doesn't know how to build truly solid OLs.

The same can be said for the secondary play since the best DBs Tomlin inherited from Cowher retired.

I am appreciative of what Tomlin has done for the Steelers (more so early on), but he honestly should have left when Roethlisberger retired, but probably sooner, as the second half of Ben's prime was basically pissed away.

BtW, I do get a kick out of Steelers fans being lectured on how appreciative we should be of the three playoff wins Tomlin has given us since Gaddafi was still in power in Libya.

Good stuff.

Tomlin is NOT the GM. He doesnt decide who the Steelers should draft. He doesnt make the decision on how much money to give or not give a FA.

Yes he has final say on the roster....but that only goes so far as who is on the roster AFTER the front office has assembled him the 90 or so players that they head into camp with.

If he does have more say than that, well that is on your system not on him. Coaches shouldnt have that kind of say on the roster. There hasnt been a coach successful with both sides of that coin (coaching and GM work) since I was in 6th grader and was excited about my team trading for Hershal Walker.

I am not saying you should appreciate Tomlin for what he has done. I can understand you frustration with just being middling. I am just saying that he isnt the issue with your team over the years. Its the players.....not the coaches. The coaches have done a good job of actually getting more out of the Steelers than what most coaches would have over the years.

 

[Diamondeye]

Somewhat disagree here. They had a top 5 unit for the majority of 2011-2018. Its worth mentioning that this entire unit all fell apart after Munchak left. They really didn't invest into the OL and were truly spoiled for several years under Munchak. He turned UDFA's into starters.

Munchak did not become the OL coach until 2014. Four or five years of legitimately good OL play out of 19 is not a good ratio.

They didn't get serious about overhauling the OL until 2023. They've made a lot of investments since then, and yet the product is still wildly inconsistent. Pat Meyer deserves a lot of heat for this, but still somehow has a job.

Tomlin could have replaced Meyer as OL coach and Austin as DC after last season's collapse, but didn't.

 

[Diamondeye]

Tomlin is NOT the GM. He doesnt decide who the Steelers should draft. He doesnt make the decision on how much money to give or not give a FA.

Yes he has final say on the roster....but that only goes so far as who is on the roster AFTER the front office has assembled him the 90 or so players that they head into camp with.

If he does have more say than that, well that is on your system not on him. Coaches shouldnt have that kind of say on the roster. There hasnt been a coach successful with both sides of that coin (coaching and GM work) since I was in 6th grader and was excited about my team trading for Hershal Walker.

I am not saying you should appreciate Tomlin for what he has done. I can understand you frustration with just being middling. I am just saying that he isnt the issue with your team over the years. Its the players.....not the coaches. The coaches have done a good job of actually getting more out of the Steelers than what most coaches would have over the years.

If you want to believe Tomlin, or most coaches for that matter, don't have strong influence over who their teams acquire, we'll just agree to disagree.

Any GM worth a damn is not going to draft or sign someone their coach doesn't want, as it's supposed to be a collaborative effort.

I know it happens, but most GMs that pull that shit soon end up out of a job.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Munchak did not become the OL coach until 2014. Four or five years of legitimately good OL play out of 19 is not a good ratio.

Tomlin could have replaced Meyer as OL coach and Austin as DC after last season's collapse, but didn't.

Fair point. Had to look it up. Thought I recalled Munchak was on board around the same time they drafted Pouncey. But I did not remember that correctly.

And yes, why they even hired Meyer in the first place, and continue to employ him after failing to develop anybody......is beyond me