Mid Major schools should have their own division

[NolePride]

Keep it the way it is. Four is perfect. It keeps the regular season games meaningful and allows the teams who are truly deserving to play for it all. If it stays the way it is, one of these days a Group of 5 will get in if things break right and they play the right schedule. The reason UCF was ranked where they were going into the playoffs was the only Power 5 team they beat was Maryland who sucked plus they had multiple very close calls against their conference opponents.

And lastly as a fan of a Group of 5 team, I’m 100% against splitting off into our own division. Why? So the gap can be widened even further than it already is? So we can have folks care even less about us? No thank you.

You left out the part that you could go your own way and change
the perception of your school. Nobody stopping you from gambling
on your success as an Independent.

Scheduling would be tough, but you could find folks to play you
(P5 folks). You don't need to play 12 P5 schools a year away
from home. But you would need a minimum of 6. Some will come
to your place.

Whether it is business or sports or socially, you will always be
judged by the company you keep. It's OK to play San Diego
St every year...but you aren't going to do yourselves any favors
being in the same league as San Jose St or Wyoming or New Mexico. You could schedule BYU H&H every year. Even schedule
New Mex St every year H&H. they're begging for games. Hell,
they're playing H&H with Liberty this year. (Both games)

6 like that and 6 Power 5's. Just beat the Power 5's,along with the
others.

You wanna keep it like it is. Keep it...that's your decision to make
but you relegate yourself to second tier. You just can't bitch about
it. The Group of 5, which you are a part of also includes teams
like Akron, UTEP, Kent St, Rice, UCONN, and so many more. That's
the company you keep. Only you can change that and with it,
how you are perceived.

 

[NolePride]

That is a very sad statistic. If that number were tripled (still be only 1/2) it would give the CFP committee a lot better data to compare teams. JMO

Correct. It is more than sad...it is borderline pathetic.
The regular season OOC games have been reduced to a
joke. Just like the other argument that teams schedule their
A games 4 years in advance. That's why the SEC gets all
the Great Neutral site games at the start of the year, because
they don't schedule that far in advance. They have an opening
for a neutral site game if one becomes available.

This nonsense that CFB has the best in-season schedule is bullshit.

The NCAA taught basketball teams a lesson 25 years ago and it has stuck. 25 years ago if you won 20 you made the tourney...
not anymore. Even the schools from the major conferences
must play some top-flight OOC games to make the tourney or
forget a bid. They want to see how you stack up outside your own
league.

 

[WizardHawk]

At least you admit now that the 4+ year out for top game scheduling is a real thing for the majority of P5. So there's progress.

No one has said CFB 'has the best in-season schedule'. That's strawman hyperbole and you know it. Almost everyone complains about the bullshit crappy OOC games and the boring conference games against cellar dwellers. Like nearly everyone. So no, they do not claim the 'schedules' are the bomb! in college football.

What they do say, is the intensity of the good games is much higher than every other sport. For many of us die hard fans that is 100% true. Doesn't matter if it is the same for you or not, that desire to keep edge of your seat games is very much a key to any proposed changes. I wasn't in favor of going to a 4 team playoff and it for sure HAS impacted that formula. Now you can get in rather easily with 1 loss and it's not impossible for a team to get in with 2. That has effect on the games. It just does.

We would all love more of those games. They would have to get rid of the requirement for being .500 to get into a bowl and/or stop allowing them to count wins against FCS teams toward that goal. I'd be 100% in favor of either/both. As long as there is no penalty for scheduling them, AND it gives an easier road to bowl eligibitiy, AND it is used by so many as a preseason warmup to help evaluate young players and see where you are at, this is going to continue. Like it or not.

 

[Rolltide94]

Surprisingly, I don't have any problem with your comments.

Why don't we have a 10-team playoff though. Conf Champs only
and settle all of it on the field? Totally remove opinion from the
scenario.

Now...ND would have to find themselves a conf to join. So would
the other Independents, or they wouldn't get in the playoff.

It's a very simple procedure...Don't even have to seed it. Do it
regionally using tradition as your opening formula to determine
conf strength and have the playoff schedule of games announced
at the start of the season.

Here's an example...

Week 1: Sun Belt Champ vs C-USA Champ (G1)
Week 1: MAC Champ vs MWC Champ (G2)

Week 2: SEC Champ vs Winner of G1 (G3)
Week 2: ACC Champ vs AAC Champ (G4)
Week 2: Big10 Champ vs Winner G2 (G5)
Week 2: Pac12 Champ vs Big12 Champ (G6)

Week 3: Winner G3 vs Winner G4 (G7)
Week 3: Winner G5 vs Winner G6 (G8)

Week 4: Winner G7 vs Winner G8 (NC Game)

Every bit of it is done on the field of play. Only the scoreboard
decides the National Champion.

You don't need to wait 4 weeks after the regular season to begin
the playoffs. Start them earlier. You could even get schools
eliminated in the first two weeks to be bowl eligible and still
ensure good match-ups in bowl games. (I believe you would want
the semi's and the NC game decided at neutral sites (Bowls)

This NC thing isn't just about money...it is also about power and
prestige and protecting the bottom feeders in every league.
Protect the bottom feeders by protecting recruiting grounds.

If I am a 3-star player and I had a goal of playing in the Playoffs
where would I go to school if given the opportunity...Appy St or
Kansas? Utah State or Oregon St? The chances of making the playoffs at Utah St and/or Appy St are far greater than playing at
Oregon St or Kansas. That creates an even greater disparity in
Conferences than what exists now. And there is a large disparity
now inside of each conference. Rutgers ain't never gonna be on the same level as Ohio State. It ain't gonna happen.

This type of playoff would make that disparity even worst.

With a conf champ only playoff (All conf champs) The arbument
becomes "teams will cheapen their OOC schedules." You've
already stated that most of them already have cheap OOC schedules. The scheduling can't get any worse than what it already is. I wrote earlier that counting Notre Dame the 65 P5
schools are playing a total of 238 OOC games this season. Only
38 of those games are against each other. How much cheaper
can it get. On the positive side, there would be no penalty for
playing a quality OOC game because a loss will not eliminate you
from the playoffs.

The regular season becomes the first round. The elimination round, per se. The Conf Champ eliminates everybody else in its
league. 10 are left standing at the end of the year. They play it off.

We don't do that, because somebody is trying to sell a load of horse shit that we have to know who is the real Number 2.
Who the fuck cares who number 2 is? We can argue about that
all year long.

Settle it all on the field of play. 10 teams eliminate 120 teams.
1 team eliminates 9 teams. That 1 is the National Champion and
it is decided on the scoreboard.

Right now...we have a opening kickoff and before the ball is
fielded 65 teams have been eliminated. (All the midmajors)
Currently, this season we still have half the season in front
of us and 48 P5 schools have been eliminated. (More than 1 loss)

Half the regular season is in front of us and 113 teams have no shot...that's considered a meaningful regular season?

I want the scoreboard to pick my national champ not 13
other men's opinion.

I would advocate for Alabama to join the Sun Belt Conference the day after your hare brained plan saw the light of day.

 

[Deep Creek]

As long as all of those are realities though, there isn't an end in sight for them.

I agree. As long as there isn't any consequence severe enough to stop them, they will continue.

 

[Deep Creek]

The NCAA taught basketball teams a lesson 25 years ago and it has stuck. 25 years ago if you won 20 you made the tourney...
not anymore. Even the schools from the major conferences
must play some top-flight OOC games to make the tourney or
forget a bid. They want to see how you stack up outside your own
league.

If I'm not mistaken, they also reward OOC road wins against quality opponents very highly. I think the CFP would also...if there were more of 'em.

 

[Deep Creek]

No one has said CFB 'has the best in-season schedule'. That's strawman hyperbole and you know it. Almost everyone complains about the bullshit crappy OOC games and the boring conference games against cellar dwellers. Like nearly everyone. So no, they do not claim the 'schedules' are the bomb! in college football.

Shit Wiz. That is disingenuous as hell. No one may have used the words in the way you have above. But, the "every regular season game matters" bullshit has been spewed all over the fucking place. And the intent of them using it was just that. You know damn well that was their intent.

 

[Deep Creek]

I would advocate for Alabama to join the Sun Belt Conference the day after your hare brained plan saw the light of day.

I wouldn't blame Bama at all. Don't think Bama would be willing to trade SEC TV revenue for Sun Belt TV revenue though.

 

[Boise4Life]

You left out the part that you could go your own way and change
the perception of your school. Nobody stopping you from gambling
on your success as an Independent.

Scheduling would be tough, but you could find folks to play you
(P5 folks). You don't need to play 12 P5 schools a year away
from home. But you would need a minimum of 6. Some will come
to your place.

Whether it is business or sports or socially, you will always be
judged by the company you keep. It's OK to play San Diego
St every year...but you aren't going to do yourselves any favors
being in the same league as San Jose St or Wyoming or New Mexico. You could schedule BYU H&H every year. Even schedule
New Mex St every year H&H. they're begging for games. Hell,
they're playing H&H with Liberty this year. (Both games)

6 like that and 6 Power 5's. Just beat the Power 5's,along with the
others.

You wanna keep it like it is. Keep it...that's your decision to make
but you relegate yourself to second tier. You just can't bitch about
it. The Group of 5, which you are a part of also includes teams
like Akron, UTEP, Kent St, Rice, UCONN, and so many more. That's
the company you keep. Only you can change that and with it,
how you are perceived.

And I don't disagree with that philosophy. We're not getting into a power conference anytime soon if ever at all. I'd be more than fine with it. Schedule half at home, half on the road (like we do now) and have about half of our games against Power 5 teams and the other half versus Group of 5s. We've bounced around conferences so many times that we don't have any natural rivals anyway.

 

[WizardHawk]

Shit Wiz. That is disingenuous as hell. No one may have used the words in the way you have above. But, the "every regular season game matters" bullshit has been spewed all over the fucking place. And the intent of them using it was just that. You know damn well that was their intent.

Well, you and I have had this exact conversation before and I do recall seeing 4D20 and I believe someone else also qualify it similarly.

Beavers vs Portland State wouldn't move the needle for anyone other than their fans. Bama vs Mercer doesn't do anything for even most of their own fans, more or less the college football world.

I think it's rather presumptuous to assume more is meant by that when I would suspect most just assume everyone understands it to mean every regular season game matters to those actually playing for something which does NOT include all 130 teams in FBS. That does not mean, however, that teams in the middle of the pack can't play in meaningful or exciting games. Playing just to make a playoff counts. Hell, playing just to break a losing streak such as UTEP counts for someone. People will tune in to a game your squad is leading late just to see them celebrate.

Clearly now that UW has two losses every game won't feel as intense. They blew their chances at major glory. Now they fight for the conference title, pride, better bowl, etc and those games can still be edge of your seat, but not nearly as much.

But yes, there is something different about teams playing for a spot in the top 10 and those coveted NY6 bowls or vying for a major conference championship. They have something more on them.

It's all relative man and that should be assumed. I would suspect that for fans of UCF every game 'feels' much the same to them as it does to Bama fans watching their team even if there isn't much of a chance of UCF going to the playoffs. They KNOW a loss is catastrophic nonetheless.

To be honest, all of that should be assumed, not some grammar nazi like direct interpretation that 'every regular season game matters' is a blanket statement meant to include every single FBS game.

 

[steelerssb]

I don't know why, but I truly believe something will happen at Pitt soon. There's just too much damn talent in that state for kids to just never go there. Pittsburgh isn't the shittiest town, and the campus seems fun. I'd really like to see them come back and then restore the WVU game. Those were always fun to watch.

Never should have fired Wannstedt

 

[4down20]

Shit Wiz. That is disingenuous as hell. No one may have used the words in the way you have above. But, the "every regular season game matters" bullshit has been spewed all over the fucking place. And the intent of them using it was just that. You know damn well that was their intent.

Every game matters.

 

[Rolltide94]

I wouldn't blame Bama at all. Don't think Bama would be willing to trade SEC TV revenue for Sun Belt TV revenue though.

I feel fairly confident we can cut our own deal in the Sun Belt.

 

[Deep Creek]

Every game matters.

No it don't and you know it.

 

[Deep Creek]

I feel fairly confident we can cut our own deal in the Sun Belt.

If you were totally independent I bet you could cut a deal that was waaayyyyyy more beneficial for you than your current SEC deal too.

 

[4down20]

No it don't and you know it.

How do you figure games don't matter? Just because an individual team doesn't have a shot at the national championship due to losses early in the season or whatever, it doesn't mean their games don't have meaning. It just means that team can't win the championship.

 

[Deep Creek]

How do you figure games don't matter? Just because an individual team doesn't have a shot at the national championship due to losses early in the season or whatever, it doesn't mean their games don't have meaning. It just means that team can't win the championship.

That ain't the rationalization they use when they are talking their "all games matter" shit. And you know it.

 

[4down20]

That ain't the rationalization they use when they are talking their "all games matter" shit. And you know it.

In what way don't they matter? Because a team no longer has a chance at a national championship?

 

[WizardHawk]

In what way don't they matter? Because a team no longer has a chance at a national championship?

He's holding onto minutiae of meaning.

'every game matters' has to be interpreted based on the context of the discussion. He's using it entirely in a broad sense here, but typically that phrase is used specifically when talking about expanding playoffs. That means in the case of THAT conversation it's inferred that you are talking about playoff worthy teams.

Of course in a more broad sense every game matters to someone. That's kind of general. However he wants to ALWAYS mix the two.

Not every game matters toward the playoffs. Not every game matters to every fan.

In the usual context it simply means losing has consequences unlike the NFL and most other leagues where .500 teams can make the post season. In college every loss means something fairly substantial. Even to those not otherwise in real competition for the playoffs or even their league. It can mean a bowl game or not which also takes 15 more practices away if you fail that. It has dire consequences. So many rivalries and so many things on the line week to week for over half of the FBS level. And ALL of it matters.

 

[4down20]

He's holding onto minutiae of meaning.

'every game matters' has to be interpreted based on the context of the discussion. He's using it entirely in a broad sense here, but typically that phrase is used specifically when talking about expanding playoffs. That means in the case of THAT conversation it's inferred that you are talking about playoff worthy teams.

Of course in a more broad sense every game matters to someone. That's kind of general. However he wants to ALWAYS mix the two.

Not every game matters toward the playoffs. Not every game matters to every fan.

In the usual context it simply means losing has consequences unlike the NFL and most other leagues where .500 teams can make the post season. In college every loss means something fairly substantial. Even to those not otherwise in real competition for the playoffs or even their league. It can mean a bowl game or not which also takes 15 more practices away if you fail that. It has dire consequences. So many rivalries and so many things on the line week to week for over half of the FBS level. And ALL of it matters.

Every game matters to those who are still in it for college football playoffs.

It's silly to think every single team has to have a game that matters towards that individual team getting to the playoffs since they lose games and that ends it for them personally.

But it does go beyond that. Some may say Penn St is out of it due to the 2 losses. But every game they play still matters for Ohio St's SoS for example. Same for TCU. A few weeks ago, Ohio St was all big and bad, played all these tough teams. Now due to those other games that "don't matter" from those teams, Ohio St's SoS is no where near what it appeared to be.

And that goes down through all teams to some degree, although the more removed from a playoff contending team the less effect.

Still, we can go even further and state that at the start of the season - every game matters for the playoffs, since all teams are equal. Sure we know 90% of them really have no chance, but that's the fact no matter what national championship format takes place and what the fuck can you do - hand out participation trophies?

Not sure what the point is really. All the games matter.