Martinez Trade Tumor

[CaptHowdy00]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/puckpr...kings-getting-ton-interest-alec-martinez/amp/

 

[davnlaguna]

Hyenas looking for easy prey.
I’ll give you a young echl goalie and a cap dump for Marty and you 1st round pick

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I move Muffo before I move Martinez. Not nearly as mistake prone, an unwritten leader in the room.

Sure he is a litter older but he is a solid around defender. At $4 million, he's an easy hit on even the Kings bloated cap number, not to mention he is the only LH defender who can play the right side. Nothing Martinez really does jumps out at you, but his overall play is good.

An interesting thing I have read more and more, and it seems is the "trendy" thing to do, is to label guys over 30 these days as washed up. That makes no sense to me, because there are examples out the ass of 30+ players, even some in the mid 30s range, who are still dependable.

It's exactly like how the whole analytics thing took the league by storm around 2010 and all of a sudden it was the in thing to do and eventually lost steam 5-6 years later, with the Kings' offense proving it doesn't matter how much you have the puck, what matters is how much you score when you have the puck. These days it's "OMG dude is over 30!". Ridiculous.

Obviously the closer to 35 they reach their play tends to decline or all of a sudden falls off a cliff when they hit that mid 30s mark, but there are more examples of 30-35 year old players, including defenseman, playing better than some tenured "kids" at age 27-30.

 

[Kings4OT]

Dd, Martinez are my 1-2...trade any other d

 

[Kings4OT]

On that note, dd has been pretty horrible this season....like his head not in it at all. Out of position, wrong guy ect...I give him a pass as he is very good but something is off mentally with him right now...its pretty glaring to me but maybe I'm wrong. Next season 11m is a lot

 

[Kings4OT]

I think tt has played much better then Pearson this season, but I wouldn't mind him and muffin as a package for nylander(cant stand him thinking he is an 8m player) but Pearson might be a great partner for him

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Dd, Martinez are my 1-2...trade any other d

Kind of where I am at, Doughty is obviously the de facto D1 but after him there are a few tiers of talent. The second tier would include Martinez/Muzzin and the third tier would be Phaneuf/Forbort/Fantenberg/LaDue. Some guys can't be traded for financial reasons (Phaneuf), and I don't think any of LaDue, Forbort or Fantenberg would garner a whole lot of interest.

So that boils down to Martinez and Muffo as the only real defenders worth having conversations about and to me that begins and ends with Muzzin. I personally think Martinez is the more overall complete defender but Muzzin has that perception around the league that is higher than it probably should be. Thus I say capitalize on that and move Muzzin and hype him up to be everything the other GM thinks he is.

Looking at the defense, it seems like eons ago when it consisted of Doughty, Mitchell, Scuderi, Regher, Voynov, Greene, Martinez, Muzzin, etc. Far cry from how solid and terrifying that defense was these days.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I think tt has played much better then Pearson this season, but I wouldn't mind him and muffin as a package for nylander(cant stand him thinking he is an 8m player) but Pearson might be a great partner for him

I too agree Toffoli has played better than Pearson but that's also like putting dog shit in one hand, cat shit in the other and asking which one is better. Neither guy has impressed me, but Toffoli seems to have put in more effort this season where as Pearson is simply nowhere to be found.

I'm not sure how he regressed as badly as he has, even last season not scoring he was responsible for just about everyone else getting goals and points by doing a lot of the dirty work, taking a beating and going to the crease. I honestly haven't really noticed him out there at all in any game this season which is alarming. Defensemen are the ones who should be invisible there, champ.

I'm all for moving either one of them honestly, but Pearson is likely targeted because he is slightly younger (by 4 months or so) but the bigger thing is he has a lesser cap hit ($4.6 million vs $3.75 million) and is under contract for an additional year (2019-20 vs 2020-21). Better wheels and a more complete player but Toffoli is more of the natural sniper of the two as we know.

My patience has run out on Toffoli, I wanted him moved last summer. When he isn't scoring he really isn't contributing much else but this season I see a higher compete level in him compared to Pearson. I'm hoping that translates into goals. If not, move him before his stock plummets even more than it already has.

I gave Pearson a pass last season because of what I mentioned above even though he didn't score and he was coming off a 24 goal season in 2016-17. People hit slumps and he was in between that not quite a youngin not quite a vet area.

This season however, no pass - either shape up or ship out, that time has passed and this team depends on players like him and Pearson but at some point you have to cut bait.

On that note:

Kings, Hurricanes hot for Nylander

 

[LoCal Kings]

What if the Kings could pull off a coup de gras and get both Nylander and Pesce (or maybe Justin Faulk)? I realize its a far-fetched, but the pieces and salary cap could work for all teams:

Toronto gets: Muffy (or Marty) + Voynov + Pearson
Carolina gets: Toffoli + Vilardi
LA gets: Nylander and Pesce (maybe Faulk instead)

Kings would still have enough room to bring up a player from Ontario for another Forward position after signing Nylander for $7M. Even before the season started, I thought the Jennings winning Kings needed another R-shot D-man. If its clear Ladue isn't a #2, and/or Strand/Walker, then Pesce or Faulk would work good there.

Toronto may look to dump Pearson by season's end, but they wold get a really good 2nd pairing in Muffy/Marty and Voynov for giving up Nylander.

Carolina gets Toffoli guaranteed for 2 yrs, and control over the Vilardi. Vilardi would be the huge gamble here. The Kings are high on him, despite the injuries. But you know Carolina is desperate for more forwards, especially a potential #1 or #2 Centerman.

....... my post AYSO Saturday morning pipe dream.....

 

[lasportzphan]

The next generation of players did not step up (perhaps asking too much) and this organization finds itself in a pickle. Tough to shed dough in the NHL. This thing is teetering on a dumpster fire.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

So much to say, and nothing to really say at the same time. This team played a hard style, and these injuries to everyone seem to reflect that. I would love to see Quick retire a King, so he's probably one of the few I could live with not being as productive (Even though when he's healthy, he looked like a beast still. He's just injured more often than not these days). I also appreciate him coming off the Conn Smythe and not asking for Lundqvist money when he totally could have (Call me a Quick Fanboy, it doesn't matter to me).

I think this is the team, and you just sort of enjoy the twilight years of guys who brought so much joy over the past years. Some of their values will be more around the trade deadline, so you'd probably move a guy or two (or three... Muzzin, Pearson, Toffoli) at that point, but most work will be done in the summer/during the draft. Shut Vilardi down for the year, since he's made of glass (Dude is 19...and this is what? His 3rd back issue?).

Definitely vote for Muzzin out over Martinez, and I have been on he move Muzzin train forever. Dude it like Jack MF Johnson to me. Skilled, but his defensive liability just outweighs his upside.

Debated rehashing this argument, but everyone and their Mom got mad at me for saying you couldn't pay a guy $10mil/year. Kopitar is a great two-way player, but he got paid for the team's success, and that cap hit is just massive, only to be joined next year by Doughty. Hoping that if this team tanks, then we inject a lot of youth over the next 2-3 years, and these two guys can be big parts of the next wave. But hopefully that's not too far down the road, where they are past their primes.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

The next generation of players did not step up (perhaps asking too much) and this organization finds itself in a pickle. Tough to shed dough in the NHL. This thing is teetering on a dumpster fire.

Certain types of character guys are always needed within an organization to keep teammates honest and put them in a position where they have to make that leap. Greene, Stoll, Richards, Mitchell, Scuderi, Regehr, Fraser were those types of guys. They helped the current core get to becoming the core.

It was their job now to bring along the guys like Pearson, Toffoli, Kempe, etc. and IMO have failed miserably. This falls on all of Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Quick, Doughty, Martinez and Muzzin. Collectively as a whole I believe they are partially responsible for the lack of sucess for the younger guys.

Richards for example was notorious for calling his own teammates out in game. I remember once when the Flyer bench was mic'd up and you clearly heard him say to a teammate "if you're not going to try, just go back to the locker room and dress out. We will win the game without you". It's that type of accountability (maybe not in that way) that I think this team lost when all those other guys retired or left. They simply do not exist on this current roster and it shows. Phanuef is the closest to that I can see but one voice is not enough.

And I agree, we will know real soon here what's going to happen. I am anticipating a fire sale after the Thanksgiving break because this team cannot compete with what they have currently.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

It’s time to glow this thing up. Keep Kopitar, DD, Brown, Carter. Everyone else is available.
Unfortunately no one is going to want Dion Phanuef because of his contract. The only thing I can think of is that the Kings take on some of it.
I also, think that all trades should be for picks, call up the youngsters.

 

[LoCal Kings]

It was their job now to bring along the guys like Pearson, Toffoli, Kempe, etc. and IMO have failed miserably. This falls on all of Kopitar, Brown, Carter, Quick, Doughty, Martinez and Muzzin. Collectively as a whole I believe they are partially responsible for the lack of sucess for the younger guys

As much as I hate to say it, the above statement seems crystal clear. They are all great players, winners. But just haven't brought it out of the younger guys as needed.

Richards for example was notorious for calling his own teammates out in game. I remember once when the Flyer bench was mic'd up and you clearly heard him say to a teammate "if you're not going to try, just go back to the locker room and dress out. We will win the game without you". It's that type of accountability (maybe not in that way) that I think this team lost when all those other guys retired or left. They simply do not exist on this current roster and it shows. Phanuef is the closest to that I can see but one voice is not enough.

I think it would be a real close vote between the top 2 reasons leading to Kings' decline: Voynov or Richards. A lot of the bad trades and giving up draft picks were a result of losing those 2 guys prematurely. Maybe Richards was little longer in the tooth compared to Voynov, but as mentioned above, his voice/leadership was more important than his play.

.....The drawing of the lottery is only ~5 months away......

 

[Kings4OT]

Voynov hands down was the biggest blow.... How many guys did we trade for or rotate through trying to replace him. I disagree on Richard's and think he was gone a year later then he should have been.... Yes he was a great leader for the cup runs but that was going away quickly ....hard to lead in that way when you Have the issues he had at that time.

 

[Kings4OT]

Schenn waived by the ducks....he was solid clearing the net ....but a few years later...nah

 

[LoCal Kings]

Question:
If Dec. 1st is the deadline for players to be under contract or else loose the entire '18-'19 season (Nylander), does that also apply to Voynov??? I know the Kings still own his rights for this entire season, but he doesn't have a contract.

Wonder if the NHL will conveniently push back their investigation / ruling on Voynov until after Dec. 1st.

 

[davnlaguna]

Question:
If Dec. 1st is the deadline for players to be under contract or else loose the entire '18-'19 season (Nylander), does that also apply to Voynov??? I know the Kings still own his rights for this entire season, but he doesn't have a contract.

Wonder if the NHL will conveniently push back their investigation / ruling on Voynov until after Dec. 1st.

Don’t think it applies.
December 1 is group 2 free agents only. I think that means RFAs
It is the owner’s way of having leverage. Sign or lose the year

 

[LoCal Kings]

Thanks for info.
Now I remember one of those years when Niedermayer sat out the first couple months before ultimately returning to Ducks.

 

[Kings4OT]

DD has been horrible.