Mariners Fix Problems For 2020 With Firings...

[NWinAZ]

Mariners fire two coaches from MLB coaching staff and reassign pitching coach Paul Davis
Sep. 30, 2019 at 3:26 pm Updated Sep. 30, 2019 at 5:05 pm
By
Ryan Divish
Seattle Times staff reporter


With the season now over, the Mariners, according to multiple Major League Baseball sources, will make some changes to their big-league coaching staff after finishing 68-94 in 2019.

Third-base/outfield coach Chris Prieto and bullpen coach Jim Brower will not be retained for next season, while pitching coach Paul Davis will be reassigned to a new role in the organization. The Mariners also let go video coordinator Jimmy Hartley and assistant video coordinator Craig Manning.

The Mariners hired Davis last offseason from the St. Louis Cardinals, where he was serving as the Cardinals’ manager of pitching analytics in 2018 and worked as pitching coordinator in the years prior. The Mariners believed his knowledge of analytics and pitching mechanics and his usage of new technologies made him a unique fit. But all of that couldn’t overcome the talent deficiencies and revolving door of pitchers being shuffled on and off the roster.

Seattle’s pitching staff finished with a 4.99 ERA, which was the eighth highest in all of MLB and sixth highest in the American League. Mariners pitchers allowed 260 homers, which was the fourth most in MLB. The staff’s 1,239 strikeouts were the second lowest in all of MLB.

Given Davis’ background, he’ll likely assume a role similar to what he was doing in St. Louis.

Brower joined the Mariners for the 2018 season, serving as an assistant coach who focused on pitching. He was promoted to bullpen coach this season when Brian De Lunas was transitioned to the director of pitching development and strategies.

Prieto had been with the Mariners organization since 2013. He managed the now defunct Pulaski Mariners to an Appalachian League title. He was promoted to the big-league staff in 2014 as the team’s quality assurance coach. In 2017, he served as the team’s special projects coach and was promoted to first-base coach in 2018. He moved over to third-base coach this season with Manny Acta serving as bench coach.

The Mariners have candidates within the organization to fill some of these roles. Pete Woodworth, who was Class AA Arkansas’ pitching coach this season, spent the last three weeks of the MLB season with the Mariners and figures to be a top candidate for pitching coach. Lance Painter, the longtime pitching coach at Class AAA Tacoma, had been a candidate in previous years, but he was let go after Tacoma’s season. As for the third-base coaching job, the Mariners could promote major-league field coordinator Jared Sandberg. Tony Arnerich, the Mariners’ catching coordinator, and Carson Vitale, the minor-league field coordinator, also are popular with the front office.

 

[cezero]

i smell a playoff berth in 2020.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Cause firing the 2 video guys was the true downfall of the season

 

[wazzu31]

They had an OF coach this year? Why wasn’t he fired when they hit their first losing streak? None of these move the needle as they aren’t prominent roles like say a manager or a coach, no offense Davis, that actually coaches the position. Davis was the equivalent of the instructor at a driving range.

 

[mcnabb7542]

So Davis is hired last year cause of his knowledge of "analytics and pitching mechanics" lasts one season and is canned?

Maybe, and this is a thin maybe, the manager and the GM should stop suck starting this whole analytics thing since both of them have no clue how the damn thing works!


Or this is a bunch of guys ( the let go guys) that saw a bunch of stupid managerial decisions this year and said, " this team is doomed so let me exit out of here on my own!"

 

[SeattleCoug]

Only can have so many scapegoats you would think

 

[Duders]

Makes me question WTF this rebuild thing is all about. You would think if they hire an analytics guy (Davis) for this season Jerry would get the "right" guy for that job. Just hope ownership holds "someone" responsible for decisions made. Whose watching the hen house?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Report is Seattle also fired one of their concession stand guys! We are on the right track now! If not playoffs next year, we're a lock for 2021!

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

Assessing the step back: The Mariners’ 2019 season had a little good, but mostly bad and ugly

 

[wazzu31]

Only can have so many scapegoats you would think

Which is really weird since generally the manager doesn’t last when they fire every one last season then fire a pitching or hitting coach the following season

 

[Duders]

Which is really weird since generally the manager doesn’t last when they fire every one last season then fire a pitching or hitting coach the following season

But he's Jerry's buddy...you don't fire your buddy.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Which is really weird since generally the manager doesn’t last when they fire every one last season then fire a pitching or hitting coach the following season

Right, it would be nice if things were somewhat normal in Marinerland, in terms of a functioning franchise for once. Probably too tall of an ask though

 

[wazzu31]

But he's Jerry's buddy...you don't fire your buddy.

Well that’s also kind of business 101, you don’t ever hire someone you cannot fire.

 

[seahawksfan234]

So Davis is hired last year cause of his knowledge of "analytics and pitching mechanics" lasts one season and is canned?

Maybe, and this is a thin maybe, the manager and the GM should stop suck starting this whole analytics thing since both of them have no clue how the damn thing works!


Or this is a bunch of guys ( the let go guys) that saw a bunch of stupid managerial decisions this year and said, " this team is doomed so let me exit out of here on my own!"

I was curious about this hiring as well. One thing I read in The Athletic that was pretty telling - and not surprising - is the following:

"According to a source, Davis, the head coach at now-defunct Dana College from 1995-99 and a former psychology professor, struggled to form relationships with pitchers at a level at which he had never coached. That was probably always going to be a momentous task. Analytics are a wonderful tool, but the heart of the job is connecting and establishing trust with people."

 

[wazzu31]

I was curious about this hiring as well. One thing I read in The Athletic that was pretty telling - and not surprising - is the following:

"According to a source, Davis, the head coach at now-defunct Dana College from 1995-99 and a former psychology professor, struggled to form relationships with pitchers at a level at which he had never coached. That was probably always going to be a momentous task. Analytics are a wonderful tool, but the heart of the job is connecting and establishing trust with people."

Kind of why he never sniffed that job at a professional level. Being a roving instructor who’s job was to help other pitching coaches in the organization doesn’t make one a viable pitching coach. Kind of like the chick who they hired then is or was suing them. Being good at one thing doesn’t mean you can be good at a made up position. It’s like making the long time bat boy the hitting coach. Is great at one aspect and probably good enough to let them know what they are doing wrong. But nowhere near qualified to develop a relationship enough to work with them on how to get better by his/her point of view.

I think we all could tell Jerry how shitty of a job he is doing and tell him not to make certain trades, but don’t have the experience or relationships to do it better.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Kind of why he never sniffed that job at a professional level. Being a roving instructor who’s job was to help other pitching coaches in the organization doesn’t make one a viable pitching coach. Kind of like the chick who they hired then is or was suing them. Being good at one thing doesn’t mean you can be good at a made up position. It’s like making the long time bat boy the hitting coach. Is great at one aspect and probably good enough to let them know what they are doing wrong. But nowhere near qualified to develop a relationship enough to work with them on how to get better by his/her point of view.

I think we all could tell Jerry how shitty of a job he is doing and tell him not to make certain trades, but don’t have the experience or relationships to do it better.

I agree. The dude is probably brilliant and would likely make a great advisor, but that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be a pitching coach. If you go out to the mound to a struggling pitcher, I don't think it's prudent to start rattling off obscure statistics to someone who is likely quite rattled and frustrated.

Many scouts may know more about baseball than their superiors, but that doesn't qualify them to be a coach/manager/GM. Being the smartest person in the room doesn't mean you're going to be decent at your job.

This is pure speculation on my behalf, but I have to imagine that for a lot of players it could be difficult to take advice from someone who has never thrown a pitch in their life. Especially when they have difficulty building a relationship with you.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree. The dude is probably brilliant and would likely make a great advisor, but that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be a pitching coach. If you go out to the mound to a struggling pitcher, I don't think it's prudent to start rattling off obscure statistics to someone who is likely quite rattled and frustrated.

Many scouts may know more about baseball than their superiors, but that doesn't qualify them to be a coach/manager/GM. Being the smartest person in the room doesn't mean you're going to be decent at your job.

This is pure speculation on my behalf, but I have to imagine that for a lot of players it could be difficult to take advice from someone who has never thrown a pitch in their life. Especially when they have difficulty building a relationship with you.

Without question. It is kind of psychological though too. Generally speaking people with a higher IQ are also more socially awkward and can’t relate to people as well. Which is kind of important, when you are a coach.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Without question. It is kind of psychological though too. Generally speaking people with a higher IQ are also more socially awkward and can’t relate to people as well. Which is kind of important, when you are a coach.

I think another aspect of it is that higher IQ individuals can come off as pompous/condescending/know-it-alls if you can't relate to the person you're speaking with.

One of my best friends is absolutely brilliant yet people hate him because he comes off as a dick because he knows he's smarter than the person he's speaking with and doesn't hide it well. My friends who have met him have routinely asked why I'm friends with him because they think he's an asshole.

I can also relate that to a certain extent. Another good friend of mine always thinks I'm talking down to her and makes fun of me when I use overly complicated language to express something that can be said with far less syllables. I just like being precise, but I suppose that can come off as trying to show off or something.

 

[wazzu31]

I think another aspect of it is that higher IQ individuals can come off as pompous/condescending/know-it-alls if you can't relate to the person you're speaking with.

One of my best friends is absolutely brilliant yet people hate him because he comes off as a dick because he knows he's smarter than the person he's speaking with and doesn't hide it well. My friends who have met him have routinely asked why I'm friends with him because they think he's an asshole.

I can also relate that to a certain extent. Another good friend of mine always thinks I'm talking down to her and makes fun of me when I use overly complicated language to express something that can be said with far less syllables. I just like being precise, but I suppose that can come off as trying to show off or something.

The condescending part I totally agree with, but another issue I think psychologically is Jerry’s big problem, as well as most analytic people in sports is they are too smart for their own good. It’s not their fault that their numbers or philosophy isn’t working. It’s on the same spectrum for athletes who were at the top of their profession such as Ted Williams. Williams was the greatest hitter in history but everything we are discussing with higher IQ individuals is how everyone said he was managing.