Lots of juicy stuff here (MLB Trade Rumors post about the Giants)

[msgkings322]

San Francisco Giants Rumors - MLB Trade Rumors

San Francisco Giants trade and free agent rumors from MLBTradeRumors.com.

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[LHG]

If the Giants ink Burnes, they are just doubling down on last year’s strategy, except with longer term deals and doubling the loss of draft picks (it also virtually guarantees no Sasaki with 2m of international bonus pool money forfeited).
I really hope this works well because the farm is going to go to pot unless they get really shrewd with what few picks they have in 2025 and low money for international amateur signings.

 

[filosofy29]

If the Giants ink Burnes, they are just doubling down on last year’s strategy, except with longer term deals and doubling the loss of draft picks (it also virtually guarantees no Sasaki with 2m of international bonus pool money forfeited).
I really hope this works well because the farm is going to go to pot unless they get really shrewd with what few picks they have in 2025 and low money for international amateur signings.

I don’t like losing picks, but I’m ok with it for a pitcher of Burnes pedigree. I think coming to Oracle will help any loss in SO that he gets (as apparently he still doesn’t get hit hard on balls in play). That said, unless a Japanese pitcher genuinely wants to come here, I think it’s safe to assume that LA has cornered the market on them unfortunately.

All in all, I do agree with you, but if we do forfeit picks, I prefer Posey’s way of doing it vs FZ’s.

 

[LHG]

I don’t like losing picks, but I’m ok with it for a pitcher of Burnes pedigree. I think coming to Oracle will help any loss in SO that he gets (as apparently he still doesn’t get hit hard on balls in play). That said, unless a Japanese pitcher genuinely wants to come here, I think it’s safe to assume that LA has cornered the market on them unfortunately.

All in all, I do agree with you, but if we do forfeit picks, I prefer Posey’s way of doing it vs FZ’s.

I like Burnes and think he’d be good here, but the Giants are taking a mediocre team and , essentially, adding a shortstop, hoping his defensive deficiencies last year were just a blip and that his slightly above average bat will not regress. Burnes would replace Snell.
Meanwhile, the farm has been getting better but didn’t get stocked real well in last year’s draft. This year’s draft could further cripple restocking the farm.
Not trying to argue with you, just pointing out that this feels, to me, not too different than FZ’s philosophy. But the offseason is young, we’ll see how it plays out. And to counter my points, signing Adames and not Burnes is dumb. If you are going in on free agency at the risk of the farm, don’t stop half way. That would be even more FZ

 

[calsnowskier]

I like Burnes and think he’d be good here, but the Giants are taking a mediocre team and , essentially, adding a shortstop, hoping his defensive deficiencies last year were just a blip and that his slightly above average bat will not regress. Burnes would replace Snell.
Meanwhile, the farm has been getting better but didn’t get stocked real well in last year’s draft. This year’s draft could further cripple restocking the farm.
Not trying to argue with you, just pointing out that this feels, to me, not too different than FZ’s philosophy. But the offseason is young, we’ll see how it plays out. And to counter my points, signing Adames and not Burnes is dumb. If you are going in on free agency at the risk of the farm, don’t stop half way. That would be even more FZ

I agree 95%.

The difference is that FZ punted on the draft for a couple of 1-year contracts. It his nice little parting gift to the organization on his way out the door. Adames is a long contract, so we at least have inventory for a prolonged time period in exchange for the punted pick he cost us.

And before claim Chappy, he was extended by Posey. He was a 1-year deal by FZ as well.

 

[LHG]

I agree 95%.

The difference is that FZ punted on the draft for a couple of 1-year contracts. It his nice little parting gift to the organization on his way out the door. Adames is a long contract, so we at least have inventory for a prolonged time period in exchange for the punted pick he cost us.

And before claim Chappy, he was extended by Posey. He was a 1-year deal by FZ as well.

I’m not necessarily against the short term deals he made. It was good that a few of them walked. Some of the “longer” term deals tanked. The bigger problems, I see, with FZ was the inability to get the higher tier free agents and the inconsistency in building up the farm. It got better but seemed a half measure.
Part of the problem was that the owners weren’t fully committed, I believe, in one form of roster building and I think I’ve expressed concern that may hamper Posey’s construction as well.
I am just not convinced building a long term contender happens through free agency and once a team goes that route, it is awfully hard to rebuild a farm outside of tanking. FZ partially tied Posey’s hands with his short term QO signings but Posey had a chance to go full in on the draft for 2025. Not sure Adames makes that much of a difference in making a contender. So we have to get Burnes or some equivalent now. I see no other choice.

 

[calsnowskier]

I’m not necessarily against the short term deals he made. It was good that a few of them walked. Some of the “longer” term deals tanked. The bigger problems, I see, with FZ was the inability to get the higher tier free agents and the inconsistency in building up the farm. It got better but seemed a half measure.
Part of the problem was that the owners weren’t fully committed, I believe, in one form of roster building and I think I’ve expressed concern that may hamper Posey’s construction as well.
I am just not convinced building a long term contender happens through free agency and once a team goes that route, it is awfully hard to rebuild a farm outside of tanking. FZ partially tied Posey’s hands with his short term QO signings but Posey had a chance to go full in on the draft for 2025. Not sure Adames makes that much of a difference in making a contender. So we have to get Burnes or some equivalent now. I see no other choice.

Signing a player to a long term deal nullifies the loss of a pick, imho. I have posted my concerns with the Adames deal, but at the end of the day, I am more pro-signing than anti-signing. If we can’t win, at least put a product on the field that is worth watching. Adames pushes that needle in the proper direction.

I have also stated numerous times (this is a die-hill for me) that BUILDING through FA is not the right way to go. You accentuate through FA. You fine tune through FA. But you BUILD through the farm. The Giants have 1, MAYBE 2 players on the farm who look like they can be built around (Eldridge, Whisenhunt, MAYBE Arias can join this group). That is barren as all hell. Not to say the cupboard is completely empty, right now we pretty much just a lot of dry goods, no filets or salmon patties. And punting 2nd rounders and international $$ makes it harder to get those main course ingredients.

 

[LHG]

Signing a player to a long term deal nullifies the loss of a pick, imho. I have posted my concerns with the Adames deal, but at the end of the day, I am more pro-signing than anti-signing. If we can’t win, at least put a product on the field that is worth watching. Adames pushes that needle in the proper direction.

I have also stated numerous times (this is a die-hill for me) that BUILDING through FA is not the right way to go. You accentuate through FA. You fine tune through FA. But you BUILD through the farm. The Giants have 1, MAYBE 2 players on the farm who look like they can be built around (Eldridge, Whisenhunt, MAYBE Arias can join this group). That is barren as all hell. Not to say the cupboard is completely empty, right now we pretty much just a lot of dry goods, no filets or salmon patties. And punting 2nd rounders and international $$ makes it harder to get those main course ingredients.

I think the three of us generally agree with each other. The problem I see with long term FAs signed to entertain on a mediocre team is that the farm gets worse and the pressure increases in subsequent years to keep picking up more free agents. By the way this method comes up empty, the farm is completely barren and a new FO has to be brought in. If the ownership doesn’t change their perspective, it probably won’t matter who is in charge of operations.
Of course, I am rooting for myself to be wrong and this method builds a contender not just for 2025 but the next decade.

 

[tzill]

If the Giants ink Burnes, they are just doubling down on last year’s strategy, except with longer term deals and doubling the loss of draft picks (it also virtually guarantees no Sasaki with 2m of international bonus pool money forfeited).
I really hope this works well because the farm is going to go to pot unless they get really shrewd with what few picks they have in 2025 and low money for international amateur signings.

If the choice is Burnes vs a shot at Sasaki…I’ll take Burnes. They are also signing the #1 intl amateur

 

[sf1giantfan]

I see Posey was put in a bad situation. Almost a no win situation, either try to make us better right away or let our home grown guys slowly take over. I prefer the second approach but knew it couldn’t be that way. It would have meant we would be in 4th place or last. And everyone would be blaming Posey for that decision. And you guys are right, we couldn’t just sign Adames and that’s it. We want more if we are going in that direction.

I was somewhat more interested in the Japanese pitchers but if we waited long enough for them to reject us and go to the dodgers instead, then we wouldn’t have a shot at Burnes.

I just hope it works out to at least give us a winning record but prefer some playoff games more.

 

[msgkings322]

Don't forget another supposed upgrade in 2025 is having a new center fielder. Ramos all year (if he's the real deal), Fitz all year, young pitchers with another year of growth (Harrison, Hicks, Birdsong). Add Burnes and Adames and no reason that team can't get a wild card spot with the usual luck involved in that.

Not winning the division of course.

 

[calsnowskier]

Don't forget another supposed upgrade in 2025 is having a new center fielder. Ramos all year (if he's the real deal), Fitz all year, young pitchers with another year of growth (Harrison, Hicks, Birdsong). Add Burnes and Adames and no reason that team can't get a wild card spot with the usual luck involved in that.

Not winning the division of course.

The doggies team plane could go down in a bloody, burning mess, killing the entire team and front office…

Of course, I am just an optimist, so the likelihood of that isn’t very high…

 

[msgkings322]

The doggies team plane could go down in a bloody, burning mess, killing the entire team and front office…

Of course, I am just an optimist, so the likelihood of that isn’t very high…

 

[calsnowskier]

I can criticize myself all I want. Though, to be honest, calling myself an optimist isn’t all that harsh, imho…