Looking forward, on defense . . .

[redskinsfan]

It sucked to lose today, but, all in all, we had a great season given all the circumstances we weathered from the get-go. Having said that, here's a few things that we need to do on defense. Please add to the list with your own suggestions.

We need to fire Joe Barry. It was pretty clear that the only reason we got him was because we couldn't get anyone else. I know others have praised him for some of what he's done. And there have been some good things on his part. But this guy is basically a dope. We got beat today by a gimmicky, dink-and-dunk offense, which Rodgers used to pick up anywhere between four to seven yards a clip for a long stretch of the game. Mike McCarthy did a good job of acknowledging protection issues early on and then resorted to basically a near-horizontal passing game. This was nothing different than the offense Spurrier put out there when our o-line couldn't block for Pat Ramsey. If you recall, all we did was throw screens to people like Rod Gardner. The difference between Barry and those other defenses we faced when Spurrier was around was that the opposing d-coors told their defenders to begin sitting on the routes and then basically shut us down. Somehow, Barry couldn't figure that out today, which is a season-long issue with him in failing to make adjustments (e.g., refusing to blitz when opposing QBs have all day to throw). The guy has a low football IQ and, I bet if you measured it, a low general IQ as well.

We need some homegrown defensive linemen like Chris Baker, and that will probably come through the draft. Knighton looks too fat to be effective on way too many plays and I don't know how others like Paea are going to play when they come back. If Knighton is going to come back, he'd better do so on a cheap, cap-friendly contract.

Trent Murphy is a huge bust, at least as an OLB. The guy can't muster a pass rush worth a crap and is just okay on the run. Maybe he can fill in as an ILB, but he was a huge waste as a second round pick. McCloughan acknowledged that by selecting Preston Smith in the second round this past season.

We need more corners. With Culliver coming back (assuming he's healthy) and Breeland, I think we've got a good starting pair of CBs. Add to that Kyshoen Jarrett (who I'm assuming will return), and we're pretty set at that position. But we can't continue to rely on people like Will Blackmon for depth. We need to see what we can do to solidify that position with more depth in the draft.

We also need more safeties. D-Hall is nice, but he's getting older. I'm not sure on the status of Duke Ihenacho, but safety is a definite position of need.

 

[chillerdab]

While I'm not big fan of Barry, I think it's important to consider the hand he was dealt as the year unfolded:

Gallette, out from the get go
Nacho, out from the get go.
Hall out, almost immediately.
Culliver, out.
Paea, out.
Robinson, out.
Riley, out.

He resorted to coaching up a converted wr, and basically starting a shitload of grocery baggers in the secondary.

I agree with you: Rodgers had too much time to pass to mediocre targets today. No blitzes whatsoever.

I'd like to see what happens if we load up on defense - a draft pick at each line of defense is a must - DE or DT, pass rushing LB, Safety, plus get the above mentioned back, plus have everybody compete for jobs before firing Barry and starting over.

 

[j_y19]

It sucked to lose today, but, all in all, we had a great season given all the circumstances we weathered from the get-go. Having said that, here's a few things that we need to do on defense. Please add to the list with your own suggestions.

We need to fire Joe Barry. It was pretty clear that the only reason we got him was because we couldn't get anyone else. I know others have praised him for some of what he's done. And there have been some good things on his part. But this guy is basically a dope. We got beat today by a gimmicky, dink-and-dunk offense, which Rodgers used to pick up anywhere between four to seven yards a clip for a long stretch of the game. Mike McCarthy did a good job of acknowledging protection issues early on and then resorted to basically a near-horizontal passing game. This was nothing different than the offense Spurrier put out there when our o-line couldn't block for Pat Ramsey. If you recall, all we did was throw screens to people like Rod Gardner. The difference between Barry and those other defenses we faced when Spurrier was around was that the opposing d-coors told their defenders to begin sitting on the routes and then basically shut us down. Somehow, Barry couldn't figure that out today, which is a season-long issue with him in failing to make adjustments (e.g., refusing to blitz when opposing QBs have all day to throw). The guy has a low football IQ and, I bet if you measured it, a low general IQ as well.

We need some homegrown defensive linemen like Chris Baker, and that will probably come through the draft. Knighton looks too fat to be effective on way too many plays and I don't know how others like Paea are going to play when they come back. If Knighton is going to come back, he'd better do so on a cheap, cap-friendly contract.

Trent Murphy is a huge bust, at least as an OLB. The guy can't muster a pass rush worth a crap and is just okay on the run. Maybe he can fill in as an ILB, but he was a huge waste as a second round pick. McCloughan acknowledged that by selecting Preston Smith in the second round this past season.

We need more corners. With Culliver coming back (assuming he's healthy) and Breeland, I think we've got a good starting pair of CBs. Add to that Kyshoen Jarrett (who I'm assuming will return), and we're pretty set at that position. But we can't continue to rely on people like Will Blackmon for depth. We need to see what we can do to solidify that position with more depth in the draft.

We also need more safeties. D-Hall is nice, but he's getting older. I'm not sure on the status of Duke Ihenacho, but safety is a definite position of need.

The last thing we want to do is fire any coaches. We need consistency from our coaching staff and schemes. What killed the defense today was Rodgers going to the no Huddle. We couldn't substitute and our big guys up front got gassed. Consequently we had no pass rush in the second half. You also realize who we were playing in our secondary, right? We had one starter that just started playing the position 18 weeks ago. We had a nickel CB that just joined the team 4 days ago. You need to take some time and look at the bigger picture. We had a very good year and should be proud of the team and the coaching staff, they all over achieved this year and brought some respectability back to this franchise.

 

[deanpet21]

I agree on what you said redskinsfan but I just disagree with the firing of Barry. With all the injuries he did a good job. He doesn't like to blitz and I do disagree with that but he deserves another year. I put this game on the dline should of gotten more pressure on that banged up packer oline.

Whether is FA or the draft the defense will be a big priority this offseason.

 

[redskin4209]

Well I understand your frustration. Early on the Pack had no running game so they depended on a lot of gimmick plays to supplement there running game. The dink and dunk stuff was ideal. Both teams were really one dimensional early on. Look I think many of us here knew about the Def. That JB def, rush 4 and play zone behind it, very seldom does JB blitz. Rodger eyes lit up, just was the dismal Pack OFF needed a Skins def. I don't think they will fire JB, so we just have to live with it and try to draft plays to fit his scheme. However I do like an aggressive approach. I thought KC would win this game b/c we had several ideal advantages on the Offensive side. We had a chance early to really jump start our Off but you know how that went.

 

[redskinsfan]

The last thing we want to do is fire any coaches. We need consistency from our coaching staff and schemes. What killed the defense today was Rodgers going to the no Huddle. We couldn't substitute and our big guys up front got gassed. Consequently we had no pass rush in the second half. You also realize who we were playing in our secondary, right? We had one starter that just started playing the position 18 weeks ago. We had a nickel CB that just joined the team 4 days ago. You need to take some time and look at the bigger picture. We had a very good year and should be proud of the team and the coaching staff, they all over achieved this year and brought some respectability back to this franchise.

I'd normally agree, but I'd say that doing so with Barry is a very notable exception. The guy really has a low IQ. Going to a no-huddle really shouldn't matter if you don't have the personnel to run it. Look at what happened with Chip Kelly. After a while, his up-tempo offense sputtered because he simply lacked talent to run it. With Barry, he's just an idiot who embraces a defensive strategy and sticks by it no matter what the situation or circumstances. Whether it's his refusal to blitz when an opposing QB has all day to throw, his insistence on keeping certain CBs on one side of the field that leave others like Will Blackmon or Quinton Dunbar on WRs like Odell Beckham, or what happened today, the guy lacks one key thing most coaches do, and that's the ability to adjust to what's happening on the field.

 

[deanpet21]

I thought we had a chance to hire Wade Phillips as our DC but we settled for Barry. I do not like the non blitzing mentality. I feel your pain redskinsfan but Barry is going to get another year as DC.

 

[redskinsfan]

I thought we had a chance to hire Wade Phillips as our DC but we settled for Barry. I do not like the non blitzing mentality. I feel your pain redskinsfan but Barry is going to get another year as DC.

I agree he's staying. I just don't like it. And it's not just the non-blitzing thing. It's the fact that he is too wedded to any one defensive philosophy. You have to tweak it or maybe dump the whole depending on what's going on in a particular game. He just doesn't want to -- or can't do -- that.

 

[skinz2winz]

Once I heard he was Rod Marinelli's son in law, I knew we were screwed! Lol!!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I'd normally agree, but I'd say that doing so with Barry is a very notable exception. The guy really has a low IQ. Going to a no-huddle really shouldn't matter if you don't have the personnel to run it. Look at what happened with Chip Kelly. After a while, his up-tempo offense sputtered because he simply lacked talent to run it. With Barry, he's just an idiot who embraces a defensive strategy and sticks by it no matter what the situation or circumstances. Whether it's his refusal to blitz when an opposing QB has all day to throw, his insistence on keeping certain CBs on one side of the field that leave others like Will Blackmon or Quinton Dunbar on WRs like Odell Beckham, or what happened today, the guy lacks one key thing most coaches do, and that's the ability to adjust to what's happening on the field.

No way that you can compare a no huddle offense run by Rodgers with one run by Bradford or Sanchez. They are light years apart. Even with some of the Packers injury problems Rodgers can still figure out ways to beat teams.

No need to fire coaches at this pt (that is the old Snyder approach). A lot of this will be addressed by returning injured players, experience gained this season & off season acquisitions. No need for knee jerk reactions.

 

[redskinsfan]

No way that you can compare a no huddle offense run by Rodgers with one run by Bradford or Sanchez. They are light years apart. Even with some of the Packers injury problems Rodgers can still figure out ways to beat teams.

No need to fire coaches at this pt (that is the old Snyder approach). A lot of this will be addressed by returning injured players, experience gained this season & off season acquisitions. No need for knee jerk reactions.

That's not the only factor here. And if Rodgers could somehow find a way to beat teams, why did he got 4-6 (and should've been 3-7) down the stretch? And why did most people pick us to win?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

That's not the only factor here. And if Rodgers could somehow find a way to beat teams, why did he got 4-6 (and should've been 3-7) down the stretch? And why did most people pick us to win?

I was worried going into this game mainly because of the playoff experience factor. Regardless of the Packers results down the stretch (some of against very good teams) the playoffs are just a different game, and past experience is a huge factor. This may work to the Redskins benefit in the next few years.

 

[redskinsfan]

I was worried going into this game mainly because of the playoff experience factor. Regardless of the Packers results down the stretch (some of against very good teams) the playoffs are just a different game, and past experience is a huge factor. This may work to the Redskins benefit in the next few years.

I agree with you on the playoff experience point. But trends are more important, especially the stark contrast between the trends coming into this game. A good analogy would be the time when Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson for the heavyweight championship. No one would argue that Douglas was better than Tyson. But, at the time they fought, Tyson had a lot going on outside of the ring that affected his psyche in it. Douglas capitalized on that and got his 15 minutes of fame that fight.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I agree with you on the playoff experience point. But trends are more important, especially the stark contrast between the trends coming into this game. A good analogy would be the time when Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson for the heavyweight championship. No one would argue that Douglas was better than Tyson. But, at the time they fought, Tyson had a lot going on outside of the ring that affected his psyche in it. Douglas capitalized on that and got his 15 minutes of fame that fight.

That can be true at times in the NFL but not always. Look at some of the current teams. The Chiefs are the hottest team in the NFL now, and the Pats are somewhat sputtering. Does that make the Chiefs a lock this weekend? Absolutely not. The Seahawks were perhaps the NFC's hottest team down the stretch. Look at them. They were lucky to get the win yesterday and certainly are not a lock against the Panthers.

I would say talent and playoff experience are much more important than trends. Also - again you have to consider the quality of the Redskins recent opponents. The Packers are still not SB favorites, but they are certainly better than this years version of the Eagles or Cowboys.

 

[Sportster 72]

That's not the only factor here. And if Rodgers could somehow find a way to beat teams, why did he got 4-6 (and should've been 3-7) down the stretch? And why did most people pick us to win?

I am positive someone on here had a thread title fools gold.

If it makes you feel any better I don't think anyone here is saying Barry is the worlds greatest DC. He didn't get out coached, he got out flanked. Familiarity is gold in the NFL. Change coaches every year and you have to learn a new system every year. That is a recipe for the last 20 years.

 

[redskinsfan]

I am positive someone on here had a thread title fools gold.

If it makes you feel any better I don't think anyone here is saying Barry is the worlds greatest DC. He didn't get out coached, he got out flanked. Familiarity is gold in the NFL. Change coaches every year and you have to learn a new system every year. That is a recipe for the last 20 years.

I'll agree that familiarity and continuity is always a great general rule to follow. However, there are instances where you know someone isn't cutting the mustard early. Spurrier is just one example of that. Barry, no doubt, will serve a second season. Let's hope we can provide him the personnel to work in his soft, zone, and no-blitzing scheme. Otherwise, we're going to let opposing QBs too much time to throw and/or pick us apart playing small ball.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I'll agree that familiarity and continuity is always a great general rule to follow. However, there are instances where you know someone isn't cutting the mustard early. Spurrier is just one example of that. Barry, no doubt, will serve a second season. Let's hope we can provide him the personnel to work in his soft, zone, and no-blitzing scheme. Otherwise, we're going to let opposing QBs too much time to throw and/or pick us apart playing small ball.

Wow - so apparently every QB is on par with Rodgers & BTW most of their success was due to the running game & that was not scheme related - it was bad tackling & bad play. You do realize that Rodgers only had slightly more than 200 yds - rt? Not exactly a monster game.

BTW - using your Spurrier example - if the Skins can replace Barry with the equivalent of Joe Gibbs as head coach then fine - do it. However - that ain't happening.

 

[redskinsfan]

Wow - so apparently every QB is on par with Rodgers & BTW most of their success was due to the running game & that was not scheme related - it was bad tackling & bad play. You do realize that Rodgers only had slightly more than 200 yds - rt? Not exactly a monster game.

BTW - using your Spurrier example - if the Skins can replace Barry with the equivalent of Joe Gibbs as head coach then fine - do it. However - that ain't happening.

Huh?! Every QB is on par with Rodgers?

And with Spurrier, I think the comparison is close to Barry. Not exactly the same, but close nonetheless. That's what will get him another season. But if the talent remains the same and he keeps his current gameplan in place, we'll be horrid again.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Huh?! Every QB is on par with Rodgers?

And with Spurrier, I think the comparison is close to Barry. Not exactly the same, but close nonetheless. That's what will get him another season. But if the talent remains the same and he keeps his current gameplan in place, we'll be horrid again.

Horrid again - huh? Wow - so losing in the playoffs for a team that many picked to be 0-16 is horrid? LOL. Or is giving up an eye popping 210 yds of passing to Rodgers being horrid? And again - please continue to ignore the insane amt of injuries & young starters since apparently that doesn't matter.

Again if there is an D coordinator out there on par with Joe Gibbs as a head coach (which is the reason why Spurrier was replaced) please identify him & in that case you may convince me. Waiting......

 

[redskinsfan]

Horrid again - huh? Wow - so losing in the playoffs for a team that many picked to be 0-16 is horrid? LOL. Or is giving up an eye popping 210 yds of passing to Rodgers being horrid? And again - please continue to ignore the insane amt of injuries & young starters since apparently that doesn't matter.

Again if there is an D coordinator out there on par with Joe Gibbs as a head coach (which is the reason why Spurrier was replaced) please identify him & in that case you may convince me. Waiting......

You apparently are continuing to miss what I'm saying. I've already, as I've done countless times, admitted to the lack of personnel, via injuries or otherwise. My point is that Barry could've done better with them with a better gameplan in the GB game. Please note narrow focus of my point --> i.e., the game yesterday. As for other d-coors, I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure I could find one that would be better than Barry. I knew we were in trouble when Vic Fangio picked the Bears over us.