look at this staff

[skinsdad62]

How NOT To Build A Competent NFL Coaching Staff; The Mike Shanahan Way

this is a huge issue here

we have an o/line coach who over 16 seasons avg's 38 sacks allowed

burns is the worst at his position in the NFL

the qb coach hasnt corrected much on either qb

the d/line coach hasnt developed any pass rushers

the lb coach is awful

and haslett is a yes man , we had a shot at zimmer and we got this clown

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Good article Skinsdad. Not sure how accurate all of it is, but it appears to be credible.

This part of the review of Haslett just blew me away:

The reason why he’s here is pretty simple. Mike Shanahan did interview guys like Romeo Crennel and Mike Zimmer during that offseason. The problem was, Mike wouldn’t grant his defensive coordinators autonomy over their defenses. Mike Shanahan wanted the right to hire the defensive assistants (like, let’s say, Jacob Burney and Bob Slowik, both loyal Shanahan hands), and he also wanted the right to tell the coordinators what defense to run.

Because Crennel and Zimmer aren’t dumb, they both balked. Jim Haslett, however, having been exiled to the UFL for two seasons, gladly acquiesced to Mike’s request, despite the fact that he hadn’t coordinated a 3-4 defense in years. But he had a job again, so who needs integrity.


Again - Mike Shanahan does not give a crap about any of us. He would like success for the Skins but only if it helps build his ego & is done his way. This really pisses me off - this type of qualified like/love for the organization. While we suffer through 3 out of 4 horrible years, this egomaniac just laughs at us & tries to do whatever he can to boost his ego and his bank acct. IMO they cannot get rid of him soon enough.

 

[Sharkinva]

All I will say is this... we can scream up and down we need a new coach. But do we really think a new coach is the answer right now. I dont trust Snyder to not screw this up with cap space and alot of holes to fill. I dont expect us to hire a real GM, thus I dont think firing Shanahan right now is actually the best thing.

 

[Krusheasy]

Ok, I'll play devils advocate ...

this is a huge issue here - it comes off as throwing the coaches under the bus for players not executing to me. Heads will role at the end of the season, but there is enough blame to go around.

we have an o/line coach who over 16 seasons avg's 38 sacks allowed - This is funny coming from the person who has supported the OL performance all season. We all recognize we're not working with elite talent on the OL.

burns is the worst at his position in the NFL - i think its too simplistic & a cop out to blame the coach for ALL the mistakes. Burns ST looked pretty good in the playoffs last year. Again, it goes back to talent. We lost the ST captain to FA & half of the ST roster are on IR.

the qb coach hasnt corrected much on either qb - you can lead a horse to water, but ... McNabb was going to be McNabb, Rex is going to be Rex. Only so much coaching can improve a players decision making & ability to execute.

the d/line coach hasnt developed any pass rushers - the impact of losing of Adam Carriker can not be stressed enough. I believe he was ready to have an elite year before his injury. Chris Baker looked great yesterday though.

the lb coach is awful - no argument here. However, London Fletcher is practically the coach.

and haslett is a yes man , we had a shot at zimmer and we got this clown - Making Haslett the scapegoat is just the easy thing to do. The defense has to have one of the WORST starting field position in the league. Considering the amount of production he has got out of the talent he is working with proves to me not as bad as everyone thinks. The defense played a huge role in that 7 game win streak last season. Take out Meriweather & Hall ... & Haslett has NO secondary. NONE.


HTTR24/7 is a good source for information ... but those guys are all aboard the fire Shanahan train & you can hear the bias in their writing. Sure ... injuries & cap fine are excuses, but coaches are only as good as the players they have to work with.

 

[skinsdad62]

All I will say is this... we can scream up and down we need a new coach. But do we really think a new coach is the answer right now. I dont trust Snyder to not screw this up with cap space and alot of holes to fill. I dont expect us to hire a real GM, thus I dont think firing Shanahan right now is actually the best thing.

look at the end of the year he needs to go . not this instant , but he needs to go

as for snyder we dont know . history isnt on his side , but perhaps he has learned

 

[SoCalWizFan]

All I will say is this... we can scream up and down we need a new coach. But do we really think a new coach is the answer right now. I dont trust Snyder to not screw this up with cap space and alot of holes to fill. I dont expect us to hire a real GM, thus I dont think firing Shanahan right now is actually the best thing.

Please tell me exactly what Snyder has done wrong in the last 2-3 years (don't tell me about things like limo rides for RG3 - who cares). You keep saying you don't expect them to hire a "real GM". What exactly is your basis for this statement? I believe that Snyder knows that his every move is being watched right now & - contrary to what you believe - is concerned about it if for no other reason than it will hurt his bottom line.

So - would you rather they retain Shanahan (& by default all of his crappy asst coaches)? What a nightmare.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Krush,

Are you serious - defending Haslett & Burns? Sure - talent is part of the problem but in no way tells the whole story. Again - Haslett has not been a good defensive coach ANYWHERE - why defend this guy? You appear to be the president of the Mike Shanahan fan club & apparently believe that he can do no wrong. Yep - let's bring him back & when it goes wrong next season we can all say "that it is all because of Snyder & RG3 & just wait until next year". Frustrating.

 

[skinsdad62]

Ok, I'll play devils advocate ...

this is a huge issue here - it comes off as throwing the coaches under the bus for players not executing to me. Heads will role at the end of the season, but there is enough blame to go around.

we have an o/line coach who over 16 seasons avg's 38 sacks allowed - This is funny coming from the person who has supported the OL performance all season. We all recognize we're not working with elite talent on the OL.

burns is the worst at his position in the NFL - i think its too simplistic & a cop out to blame the coach for ALL the mistakes. Burns ST looked pretty good in the playoffs last year. Again, it goes back to talent. We lost the ST captain to FA & half of the ST roster are on IR.

the qb coach hasnt corrected much on either qb - you can lead a horse to water, but ... McNabb was going to be McNabb, Rex is going to be Rex. Only so much coaching can improve a players decision making & ability to execute.

the d/line coach hasnt developed any pass rushers - the impact of losing of Adam Carriker can not be stressed enough. I believe he was ready to have an elite year before his injury. Chris Baker looked great yesterday though.

the lb coach is awful - no argument here. However, London Fletcher is practically the coach.

and haslett is a yes man , we had a shot at zimmer and we got this clown - Making Haslett the scapegoat is just the easy thing to do. The defense has to have one of the WORST starting field position in the league. Considering the amount of production he has got out of the talent he is working with proves to me not as bad as everyone thinks. The defense played a huge role in that 7 game win streak last season. Take out Meriweather & Hall ... & Haslett has NO secondary. NONE.


HTTR24/7 is a good source for information ... but those guys and all aboard the fire Shanahan train & you can hear the bias in their writing. Sure ... injuries & cap fine are excuses, but coaches are only as good as the players they have to work with.

1) that was the 1st time i saw the stats . and at the time of my defense we hadnt given up 25 sacks in 5 games . and tell me didnt MOST people disagree with me on my theory ? i am pretty sure i had a few rounds on what stats mean

2) I dont believe Burns was with us last season and short of Loax who are we missing ?

3) the article states that KC has the same flaws as he did at MSU . is he uncoachable ?

4) the d/line has been pedestrian even with carriker and his career year .jenkins is a guy with lots of potential but we have seen little from him .

5) no issue

6) haslett has consistently and defenses ranked in the late 20's . his use of some of our players is clearly questionable

7) perhaps that blog is on the fire shanahan train , i cant say that they arent but does that discount the facts that have been brought up ?

anyway good devils advocate role play

 

[Krusheasy]

2) I dont believe Burns was with us last season and short of Loax who are we missing ?

Richard Carwford, Adam Carriker, Nick Sunberg, Brian Kehl, Keenan Robinson, Stephen Bowen, Leonard Hankerson, Phillip Thomas & Chris Thompson all would have had an impact on special teams and defense.

Here is my "Keep Mike" post
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/4150467-post64.html

I just think we're at a crossroads. Times are tuff and people want to give up and start over, fire everyone, rinse & repeat. However, IMO, if we can push through this horrific season we'll reap the rewards of sticking with this staff next season.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Richard Carwford, Adam Carriker, Nick Sunberg, Brian Kehl, Keenan Robinson, Stephen Bowen, Leonard Hankerson, Phillip Thomas & Chris Thompson all would have had an impact on special teams and defense.

Here is my "Keep Mike" post
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/4150467-post64.html

I just think we're at a crossroads. Times are tuff and people want to give up and start over, fire everyone, rinse & repeat. However, IMO, if we can push through this horrific season we'll reap the rewards of sticking with this staff next season.

So - getting rid of a coach after 4 seasons - with 3 of them being outright awful - somehow makes this a panic move? How long do they have to retain coaches (no matter how bad they do) - 8 years? 10 years? If Shanahan stays & they do poorly because of special circumstances (e.g. multiple injuries) does that give him a pass for yet another season?

Why do you believe that Mike Shanahan is the only answer for this team? If he built a good foundation (which he has done to a certain degree) - why can't someone else take over & do well? I don't buy this idea that a change in coaches automatically means starting over again & taking 2-4 years. Turnarounds are relatively common in the NFL & with some additions to the Skins roster don't see why it is not possible even with different coaches.

 

[Sharkinva]

Please tell me exactly what Snyder has done wrong in the last 2-3 years (don't tell me about things like limo rides for RG3 - who cares). You keep saying you don't expect them to hire a "real GM". What exactly is your basis for this statement? I believe that Snyder knows that his every move is being watched right now & - contrary to what you believe - is concerned about it if for no other reason than it will hurt his bottom line.

So - would you rather they retain Shanahan (& by default all of his crappy asst coaches)? What a nightmare.

The fact that he has never actually hired a real GM. He has hired yes men who will nod and say OK when he wants to go on free agent spending sprees. If you dont see the concept of firing Shanahan and Dan Snyder having as much as $40 million in cap space to play with as a potential disaster of epic proportions, you havent followed this team too well. I agree some of the assistants need to go, Haslett (debatable) Burns for sure.

But yes I would rather retain Shanahan than hire the next Spurrior/Zorn type and watch this team go on another spending spree which is what I fully expect because Snyder has only shown restraint when he has been forced into doing it.

 

[j_y19]

So - getting rid of a coach after 4 seasons - with 3 of them being outright awful - somehow makes this a panic move? How long do they have to retain coaches (no matter how bad they do) - 8 years? 10 years? If Shanahan stays & they do poorly because of special circumstances (e.g. multiple injuries) does that give him a pass for yet another season?

Why do you believe that Mike Shanahan is the only answer for this team? If he built a good foundation (which he has done to a certain degree) - why can't someone else take over & do well? I don't buy this idea that a change in coaches automatically means starting over again & taking 2-4 years. Turnarounds are relatively common in the NFL & with some additions to the Skins roster don't see why it is not possible even with different coaches.

It doesn't automatically mean that it will take 2-4 years, but history says it does. For every KC, there are 5, well, Washingtons. Now the good news for any coach coming here is that we have a good nucleus on offense that just needs to upgrade in the OL. Defense needs a complete overhaul.

 

[Krusheasy]

So - getting rid of a coach after 4 seasons - with 3 of them being outright awful - somehow makes this a panic move? How long do they have to retain coaches (no matter how bad they do) - 8 years? 10 years? If Shanahan stays & they do poorly because of special circumstances (e.g. multiple injuries) does that give him a pass for yet another season?

Why do you believe that Mike Shanahan is the only answer for this team? If he built a good foundation (which he has done to a certain degree) - why can't someone else take over & do well? I don't buy this idea that a change in coaches automatically means starting over again & taking 2-4 years. Turnarounds are relatively common in the NFL & with some additions to the Skins roster don't see why it is not possible even with different coaches.

I might be more open to considering replacing Mike & his staff if the franchise had a GM in place with an obvious better choice to replace him at head coach waiting in the wings. But neither of those are true. I don't want to see another desperation Jim Zorn hiring.

And replacing the staff a year removed from winning the division combined with the franchise player recovering from surgery does scream panic move to me. I'd like to see Mike extended one year, with a buyout option. So, unless Mike gets the team performing up to expectation next year, his 5th year would be his final season.

 

[Sharkinva]

So - getting rid of a coach after 4 seasons - with 3 of them being outright awful - somehow makes this a panic move? How long do they have to retain coaches (no matter how bad they do) - 8 years? 10 years? If Shanahan stays & they do poorly because of special circumstances (e.g. multiple injuries) does that give him a pass for yet another season?

Why do you believe that Mike Shanahan is the only answer for this team? If he built a good foundation (which he has done to a certain degree) - why can't someone else take over & do well? I don't buy this idea that a change in coaches automatically means starting over again & taking 2-4 years. Turnarounds are relatively common in the NFL & with some additions to the Skins roster don't see why it is not possible even with different coaches.

Because in our particular case, the person picking the coach is more about making headlines than making smart choices with the coach he picks. Snyder has never shown an ability to do things right. He either brings in a good coach but hand cuffs him with a mess brought in with the previous bad coach and a poor cap and draft situation. Or a shitty coach with good draft position that he will attempt to squander away on the headliner move. Its what he does and who he is. I expect a new coach, I expect new OC and DC, but an actual GM.... I think you got a better chance of finding Jimmy Hoffa then Snyder hiring a GM and just stepping back.

 

[skinsdad62]

Richard Carwford, Adam Carriker, Nick Sunberg, Brian Kehl, Keenan Robinson, Stephen Bowen, Leonard Hankerson, Phillip Thomas & Chris Thompson all would have had an impact on special teams and defense.

Here is my "Keep Mike" post
http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/4150467-post64.html

I just think we're at a crossroads. Times are tuff and people want to give up and start over, fire everyone, rinse & repeat. However, IMO, if we can push through this horrific season we'll reap the rewards of sticking with this staff next season.

if you would have asked me this question 6 weeks ago i would have said keep him

but i dont see how he can stay and keep this staff

i am not sure he would dump this staff

 

[skinsdad62]

Because in our particular case, the person picking the coach is more about making headlines than making smart choices with the coach he picks. Snyder has never shown an ability to do things right. He either brings in a good coach but hand cuffs him with a mess brought in with the previous bad coach and a poor cap and draft situation. Or a shitty coach with good draft position that he will attempt to squander away on the headliner move. Its what he does and who he is. I expect a new coach, I expect new OC and DC, but an actual GM.... I think you got a better chance of finding Jimmy Hoffa then Snyder hiring a GM and just stepping back.

well smith is in fact on the sideline so who knows ?

but your points are ell taken