Let's get this whole time thing straight!

[Stymietee]

Just in case I'm a bit confused about the way some posters view things, in NFL machinations, how much time does a high 1st round QB get to prove himself vs later round QB picks? Should that time (in game starts) be equal?...........is it ever? Not including those rare times when there's a Brady coming through as a lower pick, what's considered a fair amount of time for them?

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe Im a bit biased, but one would generally think the higher a player was picked, and the more resources expended on him, the less time logically that player should need to produce. Hence he SHOULD get less "Chances" to prove he was worth the heavy investment.

On the flip side, a player drafter lower and later in the draft is generally expected to need more time, hence more chances to prove his worth.

 

[skinsdad62]

1st year is learning , 2nd year is appliying lessons learned 3rd year is when you should take off as a 1st rounder

a 4th rounder you are usually looking at the same time span however that person is generally as a BU

i just dont see us having a nfl caliber starting qb yet however KC seems furthest along but what is that relly saying ?

 

[Sharkinva]

1st year is learning , 2nd year is appliying lessons learned 3rd year is when you should take off as a 1st rounder

a 4th rounder you are usually looking at the same time span however that person is generally as a BU

i just dont see us having a nfl caliber starting qb yet however KC seems furthest along but what is that relly saying ?

Well I would think that considering that Kirk has actually PLAYED in half as many games as he who shall not be named, and yet looks further along in the actual QBing portions of the written test.... it kind of says alot and makes on wonder where Cousins might be if given the kind of unilateral support for extended periods of times that others have enjoyed at the position.

 

[Stymietee]

Well I would think that considering that Kirk has actually PLAYED in half as many games as he who shall not be named, and yet looks further along in the actual QBing portions of the written test.... it kind of says alot and makes on wonder where Cousins might be if given the kind of unilateral support for extended periods of times that others have enjoyed at the position.

In real terms that judgment (looks further along) could have been made on the day that they were drafted.

 

[Sharkinva]

In real terms that judgment (looks further along) could have been made on the day that they were drafted.

Again it would depend on what you were judging on. If you were judging on ability to QB the team, I agree. I happen to think the job was determined based on other criteria though. And until recently I dont think actual ability to PLAY the position was criteria #1.

 

[Sportster 72]

1st year is learning , 2nd year is appliying lessons learned 3rd year is when you should take off as a 1st rounder

a 4th rounder you are usually looking at the same time span however that person is generally as a BU

i just dont see us having a nfl caliber starting qb yet however KC seems furthest along but what is that relly saying ?

That is the million dollar question dad "what is it really saying?" All three have issues. Do we continue the QB carousel? I don't think that helps anything. Your question is the million dollar question and one we may not know until the off season.

Cousins just had his 12th career start, Griffin has had 35 starts, Colt McCoy has had 25 career starts. So Cousins has half as many as McCoy and 1/3 as many as Griffin. Anyone or everyone can read whatever they want into those numbers.
If I was a betting man I on SM finding a veteran QB and drafting one next year also. I am not saying a 1st rounder. If he picks up a vet he might draft someone he can work with. I don't think Griffin can stay because I don't think there will ever be peace and quiet as long as he is here. Not blaming it on him, I am blaming it on his very high draft position and what was given to get him.

 

[Stymietee]

Maybe Im a bit biased, but one would generally think the higher a player was picked, and the more resources expended on him, the less time logically that player should need to produce. Hence he SHOULD get less "Chances" to prove he was worth the heavy investment.

On the flip side, a player drafter lower and later in the draft is generally expected to need more time, hence more chances to prove his worth.

That of course is not NFL think, it is in fact public thought and fairly recent public thought at that. There are teams that have had years of success sticking with the tried and true. Too many others wasting resources by attempting to apply public where it doesn't belong.

 

[Stymietee]

Again it would depend on what you were judging on. If you were judging on ability to QB the team, I agree. I happen to think the job was determined based on other criteria though. And until recently I dont think actual ability to PLAY the position was criteria #1.

Well in the case of our guys, KC came to the team having learned to operate in a pocket, with some knowledge about reading defenses, had much better footwork, filmwork and had used a playbook. Griffin could run and throw. Trememdous difference!

 

[skinsdad62]

Well in the case of our guys, KC came to the team having learned to operate in a pocket, with some knowledge about reading defenses, had much better footwork, filmwork and had used a playbook. Griffin could run and throw. Trememdous difference!

the difference is duly noted however his inability to grasp simple concepts is on him

and i wonder how much focusing on his "brand " got in the way of learning ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Well in the case of our guys, KC came to the team having learned to operate in a pocket, with some knowledge about reading defenses, had much better footwork, filmwork and had used a playbook. Griffin could run and throw. Trememdous difference!

Again I will simply say that had Kirk been given the level of support that he who shall not be named has gotten over the years, I think we would have seen a greater level of improvement than we have seen. Practice reps are one thing, but I would say that game speed can not really be replicated.

 

[j_y19]

There is no set time. It all depends on the issues that each is trying to over come and how (and if) they are progressing. That's the issue with Robert. His issues were basic. He didn't know how to read a defense. He couldn't execute basic drop backs consistently. He held onto the ball too long waiting for a wide open receiver, and he lacked pocket presence in feeling pressure and moving to an opening. QB 101 stuff and yet after 35 starts, he showed no real progress in improving in any of these areas.

KC's issues are much less, but just as damaging. He forces throws when under duress. He will not get 35 starts to show improvement. At best, he gets the rest of this year. But I even doubt that. IF by game 10 or so he is still tossing the ball to the other team at a twice a game clip, Gruden will have to turn to Colt if for no other reason than to see if Colt can be that temporary QB for the next year or two while his replacement is groomed.

 

[gkekoa]

I would say there isn't a set time a person gets to prove themselves. I would say it is based on growth at the position.

RG3 regressed year after year.
This is KC first year being given a shot.

 

[ehb5]

Considering the early pick is most likely more talented physically he should get more chances I think. A first round qb probably needs at least 2 seasons. A 4th round qb? Depends. If he's playing ok then maybe he'd get 2 seasons. The problem is he's so much less likely to put it together and be successful. Therefore it's a lot more likely to be wasting time on the late round qb. And most importantly, when a qb shows you who he is (this applies to both first rounders and 7th rounders) you should accept that. Aka both rg3 and cousins have been in the league 4 years and are shit. Let's accept we should move on.

 

[gkekoa]

Considering the early pick is most likely more talented physically he should get more chances I think. A first round qb probably needs at least 2 seasons. A 4th round qb? Depends. If he's playing ok then maybe he'd get 2 seasons. The problem is he's so much less likely to put it together and be successful. Therefore it's a lot more likely to be wasting time on the late round qb. And most importantly, when a qb shows you who he is (this applies to both first rounders and 7th rounders) you should accept that. Aka both rg3 and cousins have been in the league 4 years and are shit. Let's accept we should move on.

Do you believe a 4th round backup gets the same coaching as the first round project? I think the 4th rounder should probably get a "fair" shot.

 

[ehb5]

Do you believe a 4th round backup gets the same coaching as the first round project? I think the 4th rounder should probably get a "fair" shot.

I believe he's gotten plenty of coaching and chances over the past 4 years. He's not good, sorry.

 

[j_y19]

I believe he's gotten plenty of coaching and chances over the past 4 years. He's not good, sorry.

That's just not true. The starter gets all the reps once the season starts. They are not sitting down in a film room every week analyzing the reps the backup gets on the scout squad. He may continue to get coaching on fundamentals during the season, but that's about it.

 

[Sportster 72]

Whether he is good or not I can' answer but he certainly hasn't received the same coaching Griffin since they came into the league. That would be true whether it is NFL, college or high school. I am not privy to NFL practices but I have seen and participated in many high school and seen many college practices. Backups watch or run the scout team.

 

[ehb5]

That's just not true. The starter gets all the reps once the season starts. They are not sitting down in a film room every week analyzing the reps the backup gets on the scout squad. He may continue to get coaching on fundamentals during the season, but that's about it.

I'm sure he's managed to go over some film at some point in his career. Not to mention he's been horrible when he's played and it's his 4th season. He's a 4th round pick (aka not expected to be more than a backup), has started a handful of games and been historically prone to interceptions. Meanwhile other qbs in the nfl have learned as backups soo.

 

[Stymietee]

Again the hypocrisy continues.......how often have we heard that the higher selected player should have done this or that in order to improve his game instead of running his mouth, paying attention to his brand or issuing blog posts everywhere? While I agree with all of this, shouldn't the backup who by virtue of his status, have more time himself to work on his craft to a point where he becomes a master reader of defenses, less prone to turnovers because of that and an immediate threat to the starter even if the starter was a superstar?

Maybe it's a generational mindset for me vs. todays players.....but When I played sports and didn't start (which was very rare) my first thought was to go to the coach and ask why? After finding out what was perceived to be a weakness, guess what I worked on? So I'll ask you guys...........Why does it seem that there are fewer and fewer players pushing for starting status and such a fall off between starter and backup in sports today?