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"Legal" Illegal Tampering

Discussion in 'New England Patriots' started by BigKen, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. BigKen

    BigKen Well-Known Member

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    There was a great conversation on BST last night about what will happen by March 2, 2020.

    The largest contingent of people at the NFL Combine every year is NOT players or coaches or scouts. It's player agents. This is why BB said that Brady's place with the Patriots will be settled before March 10.

    Players, coaches and everyone else will be back home by March 2. Agents for free agents will have a fairly good idea what the players are worth and the rookies will have a general idea of where they will be going in the draft. Ever wonder how the NFL knows who to have sitting at those tables at the draft?

    They said that Don Yee will be at the Combine and will be talking to at least 8 teams that are interested in Brady. Brady will know what's going to be offered and can present the Patriots with those supposed numbers. The patriots can make an offer and then it'll be up to TB and Yee to work it out.

    The NFL knows and accepts this type of negotiating and "tampering" because it moves the process at light speed when the Free Agent Opening Day starts. They said that some contracts are done with a handshake at the Combine and teams know who they have tied up and who other teams outbid them for.

    Basically, we should know whether or not the Patriots will be in the hyunt or not by March 5th.
     



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  2. cdumler7

    cdumler7 Well-Known Member

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    It truly is the unspoken rule that the Combine is fair game for anything. Teams publicly won't announce anything but at the Combine when it comes to FA most information coming out is pretty spot on of where things go moving forward. The draft it is the complete opposite as teams use it as a way to try and confuse other teams of what they will be doing using the media to make it seem like they love one player then draft another. The rule of thumb is anything coming out of Senior Bowl week is usually pretty spot on when it comes to the draft then everything from the Combine leading up to the draft is information teams want to leak out to the general public and other teams.
     
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  3. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    Let me see if I have this correct... The unspoken rule is to cheat a rule? Also, if it's an unspoken rule, why are we discussing it?

    Cheating is cheating. The only thing it means when "everyone id doing it" is EVERYONE IS FUCKING CHEATING.
     
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  4. cdumler7

    cdumler7 Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree. The league should just make it clear that it is ok and move on. No one is going to fault them for making such a decision. Kind of like when they allowed the "legal tampering period" a few days before FA started. It was already happening anyway so why not just make it clear instead of trying to look like you are above board when everyone knows your not.
     
  5. BigKen

    BigKen Well-Known Member

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    The easiest way to explain it is this:

    Everyone farts.

    Some smell, some don't.

    No one wants to be in an elevator with anyone who has stinky farts.

    No one talks about farting in public.

    Sound about right??
     
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  6. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone farts as a byproduct of eating. We must eat to survive and accept that farts are a consequence. There might be some blame for a smelly fart based on choosing a specific diet, but that's the extent of it.

    Every team can survive and many even thrive without tampering.
     
  7. cdumler7

    cdumler7 Well-Known Member

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    Can you definitively name one team that doesn't tamper?
     
  8. Shoeshine Boy

    Shoeshine Boy Humble & Lovable

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    The whole thing is so silly and so easily remedied.
     
  9. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    I can't name one person who "definitively" didn't murder. I'm pretty sure my wife hasn't, and am almost positive my kids haven't, I can't say "definitively".

    Why do you rationalize cheating? It happens, yes. It's not the end of the world? Yes. It's okay because everybody does it? No.
     
  10. cdumler7

    cdumler7 Well-Known Member

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    When have I said cheating is ok? I just said the league turns a blind eye to the whole ordeal and my thought is if they want this to continue they should just legalize it anyway instead of trying to appear above reproach. When every one already knows it goes on then either put a stop to it from happening with harsh punishments or make it legal. Don't be in this place of limbo. The league has done this in a lot of areas though and they have tried to play both sides leading to just more issues. Kind of like the issue with kneeling during the anthem. They should have just put their foot down one way or the other instead of trying to make every one happen. They ended up making no one happy. The NBA for example made a hard fast rule on the issue and it was done with.
     
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  11. Yankee Traveler

    Yankee Traveler Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes, I'll have chili and eggs, the next day when my assistant PM walks out of his office, I'll go in and rip one and close the door behind me.


    Then send him an email, "How do you like me now"?
     
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  12. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say you said it was ok. I said you were rationalizing it. You have stated "everybody does it", which is rationalizing... but my biggest point isn't specific to you. I'm discussing the topic and am polarizing your words a bit for the discussion.
     
  13. cdumler7

    cdumler7 Well-Known Member

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    Well you definitely like to polarize my words quite often on here but ok. And no saying "everybody does it" doesn't mean I'm rationalizing it. Again that is why I've said they need to either change the rule or actually enforce it. They have let things go too far. I'm pointing to the fact that because they have let teams get away with it for so long that it has reached this pinnacle point of something has to be done because it is looking really bad on the NFL for allowing this to happen and everybody know it does.

    I mean I'll just give a real life version of this. My kid last night lied about brushing her teeth. It was easy to see she hadn't with the toothpaste still on the toothbrush. Every kid lies at some point. Does that mean me as a parent I'm trying to rationalize it and let her continue down that path? Heck no. She got called out on it, apologized for it, and we talked about how she can make better decisions moving ahead. Same for the NFL of seeing teams are playing fast and loose with the rules it is either time for them to step up or move the line of what is allowed. They should know though moving the line just means teams then try to push it further and see what they can get away with (The Patriots understand that all too well).
     
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  14. BigKen

    BigKen Well-Known Member

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    Already there are rumors that 'agents' are contacting different teams to see who might be interested. The league can't stop it because they would have to have proof. No judge is going to give the NFL access to an agents' phone records or to a teams' phone records. Neither will give them up.

    So there are several things wrong. First, the end of any season should be the day after the Super Bowl, not a month and a half later. Even the Monday the week after the Super Bowl would be okay and give everyone a week to breathe. Teams could refuse to take calls and report any agent that tried. Second, allow free agents to orally agree with a team and enforce any oral agreement. The biggest problem is that the NFL has rules and dates in place that it has zero chance of enforcing. Like CD7 says, get rid of them or make them in such a way that they can be enforced.

    The Combine.......ahhh, the NFL's version of the Chicago Monday Meat Auction. So Team A has the first pick. It goes to the Combine and sees Joe Quarterback work out and decides he's their guy. What's the harm in approaching the kid's agent and working out a deal? Other than word gets out and the billion dollar TV draft takes a step back from the signings of the first 8-10 players before the Draft. Solution: Have the draft one week after the Combine instead of two months.

    The NFL is its own worst enemy.
     
  15. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    You make me laugh as you continue to rationalize. Merely saying you are not rationalizing doesn't mean you are not, it means you are denying it and probably in denial. I had nearly an identical experience with my daughter and handled it almost identically. The mission is to not have them defensive about a normal action so they can learn the consequences of that action. Grown executives have past the period where they need to learn the consequences of lying. They are cheating, know there won't be consequences so they choose to do it.

    But there are consequences, like harm to another team and building a genuine dis-trust of processes connected with the NFL.
     
  16. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    If anyone wonders what is the harm of tampering when everybody does it, here it is.

    1. Teams holding the expiring contract have sole right to negotiate with their own players
    2. If players are secretly negotiating with others teams they have a more clear understanding of their value and the upper hand in negotiations
    3. Teams lose the upper hand, players get the upper hand

    So this all seems fair, why should teams have the upper hand?
    1. The players union agreed to give teams the upper hand in exchange for other concessions that benefit all players.
    2. Ultimately a few players benefiting from getting the upper hand can get better contracts which pulls a larger share from the pool of money established by the salary cap
    3. Less money available to most players means at least some players are harmed by the tampering process
    4. Model teams try to negotiate with managing the salary cap and individual salaries responsibly, and are hindered by tampering, and can be forced to pay higher salaries to some and possibly lose substantial depth by have less money available for everybody else.
    It blows my mind that there is a perception that players are screwed because their contracts aren't guaranteed even though with few exceptions, the majority of the salary cap is distributed. The reality is this: when one player is a casualty of the system, another benefits.... and the union agreed to those circumstances. The comical part is: those who are screwed are already multi, multi-millionaires and need not have anyone feeling bad for their circumstance.
     
  17. Southieinnc

    Southieinnc Ravens will miss his ass!

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    Brings to memory Michael Vicks wife complaining about "having to live on" a million bucks while he is in jail.......
     
  18. nefansince75

    nefansince75 Well-Known Member

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    or the numerous "need to put food on the table" type quotes. I think it was Latrell Sprewell with that nugget, but many have used similar lines.All they need to say is "I deserve better" and we would all understand.
     
  19. BigKen

    BigKen Well-Known Member

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    Great discussion this morning on WEEI. Dale Arnold and Rich Keith were talking about the rumor that broke yesterday afternoon. The Raiders, it's being rumored, have prepared a Guaranteed 2 year, $70M offer for Brady and are willing to push it to 3 years $105M.

    That brought out the "tampering" discussion and Arnold was blunt. He said that every agent that has a FA player has already contacted every GM and coach to gauge their interest. The league knows it and the union knows it and the players and their agents know it. Next week, it will be "Go for the throat" week at the Combine. Every NFL GM, Coach and half of the owners will be in Indianapolis and by the time the Combine is over, most of the teams and players will have committed with a handshake. Even Antonio Brown has announced that he will be at the Combine selling himself to any team that will listen.

    Arnold said that he's been around professional sports for almost forty years and the NFL Tamoering Rule has become the most ignored rule in professional sports. "If a team waits until the legal time to approach a player, the cupboard will be bare."

    A very interesting point was made. If the Patriots and Brady are not negotiating behind closed doors in a cave in the Canadian tundra, then Brady returning to the patriots will not happen. Once other teams line up and start offering multiple years and huge guaranteed money, the Patriots are out. Other teams are already moving because they know they can't wait and ignore their own FA QBs in hopes of digning Brady and miss out on both.

    The perfect example was Tennessee. If they decide to go all-in on Brady and ignore Tannehill, and they miss, where do they go from there?

    Brady is the first domino. Once he's tipped over, the rest will topple at light speed as teams scramble and throw money at every remaining QB.
     
  20. Shoeshine Boy

    Shoeshine Boy Humble & Lovable

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    Antonio Brown is irrelevant to a tampering discussion. He’s not under contract.

    I think Brees‘ decision whether to retire or not is the first domino.