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Knicks could be first team...

Cyder

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100% spot on.

As a Lakers fan, I have seen both extremes in the past 5 or so years. When Dr. Buss was alive, the Lakers were never without a plan which is why they had all of the success they had under his ownership. The difference between Dr. Buss and the Knicks owner is that Dr. Buss was smart enough to know what he didn't know, hired the right people and got out of their way.

Then Short Buss took over, thought he was the smartest guy in the room, actually got rid of some of the people his Dad had hired and his plan basically consisted of: "Free agents will line up to sign with us because we're the Lakers and Hollywood is here".

Now, with Jeanie, Magic and Pelinka, the Lakers have gone a good ways towards cleaning up the mess Short Buss left and actually seem to have a viable plan.

Dr Buss knew what he had in Jerry West and didn't let his ego (Jerry Jones, I'm looking at you) get in the way of a superior executive running the day to day and evaluating talent.
 

trojanfan12

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D'antoni had them playing well when Linsanity was running wild. The team didn't have much talent and Lin ended up injured which also hurt, but another example of Dolan siding with the wrong guy. He chose Melo over D'antoni.

Yeah, I actually don't put too much blame on Dolan for that one. I agree he sided with the wrong guy, but in the NBA, when there's a power struggle between a star player and a coach, the player is almost always going to win.

The smart move would have been to trade Melo for assets (at that time he would have brought a very nice return). Although, to be fair, the trade partners may have been limited because, if memory serves, Melo had a no trade clause.
 

trojanfan12

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Dr Buss knew what he had in Jerry West and didn't let his ego (Jerry Jones, I'm looking at you) get in the way of a superior executive running the day to day and evaluating talent.

Yep and Jeanie seems to be doing the same thing. Dr. Buss limited his own role to being the final say on big contracts and being "the closer" when negotiating with FA's including the Lakers own FA's.

Some owners (and I agree Jerry Jones is one) can't seem to stop themselves from treating their team like it's a fantasy league.
 

Cyder

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Yeah, I actually don't put too much blame on Dolan for that one. I agree he sided with the wrong guy, but in the NBA, when there's a power struggle between a star player and a coach, the player is almost always going to win.

The smart move would have been to trade Melo for assets (at that time he would have brought a very nice return). Although, to be fair, the trade partners may have been limited because, if memory serves, Melo had a no trade clause.

At the time Melo did not have the no trade clause, he got that from Phil when he resigned
 

trojanfan12

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At the time Melo did not have the no trade clause, he got that from Phil when he resigned

Then they definitely should have traded him and shame on Phil for that no trade clause.

Did he give it to him when the Lakers were trying to sign Melo and Kobe was doing the hard sell to get him to LA? If he did, that may be why. Would have looked pretty bad to lose Melo to the team Phil led to 5 rings. lol
 

Cyder

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Then they definitely should have traded him and shame on Phil for that no trade clause.

Did he give it to him when the Lakers were trying to sign Melo and Kobe was doing the hard sell to get him to LA? If he did, that may be why. Would have looked pretty bad to lose Melo to the team Phil led to 5 rings. lol

The word was Melo was Chicago was going hard after Melo but I never believed it. The entire time he was looking at other teams he was doing a documentary about it with MSG TV. I'm not completely sure how much input Dolan had on retaining Melo because he always loved Melo and over ruled Walsh to get him to begin with. Giving him a no trade was incredibly dumb and they're lucky they got OKC to take him off their hands
 

Pastafazul

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BS!!! these players were not washed up... WTF! they became BUMS here in NY, because they were not held accountable! wtf, rose leaves the team without notice, not even fined, playin him as soon as he came back cause of a libtard owner!... wtf, who the fack gets away with that?

dantoni LO F n L , yea OK!!! what did he wave his magic wand and turn harden into the best G in NBA?

this is just stupid, i should just post like you, and say the knicks had a bunch of studs on their roster, just had some bad luck!

and hardaway is a freekin ball hog....lol
 

Pastafazul

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Tlance, just out of my curiosity , how many coaches have you played for?
 

tlance

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Tlance, just out of my curiosity , how many coaches have you played for?

More than you.

Played for 3 at the high school level and coached with 6 more head coaches as a varsity assistant at various places. A couple great ones, a couple good ones and a few bad ones.
 

trojanfan12

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BS!!! these players were not washed up... WTF! they became BUMS here in NY, because they were not held accountable! wtf, rose leaves the team without notice, not even fined, playin him as soon as he came back cause of a libtard owner!... wtf, who the fack gets away with that?

It's hilarious that in an earlier post you questioned @tlance involvement in athletics because this post has me questioning whether or not you've ever seen a game.

Those players were washed up because Thibs overused them. Where most coaches trim their rotation in the playoffs to about 8-10 players, Thibs rotation shrunk to about 6 or 7 and that wasn't much of a drop from the regular season. He literally ran those players into the ground.

It was especially true for Noah because he doesn't have an off switch. So he wouldn't even take plays off during a game to get some rest like a lot of guys do who play heavy minutes.

dantoni LO F n L , yea OK!!! what did he wave his magic wand and turn harden into the best G in NBA?

th




this is just stupid, i should just post like you, and say the knicks had a bunch of studs on their roster, just had some bad luck!

Uh, that's pretty much exactly what you did. But instead of saying they had some bad luck, you said it was the coaches fault.
 

tlance

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Lol, just what I thought.

What is funny about that?

You assumed that I had 14 seasons of coaching high school basketball under my belt in addition to playing years?

Since I actually have current experience, I know that the coaching field has changed significantly since your glory days. It isn't nearly as simple as you want to make it, especially at the pro level.

But go ahead and keep making a fool of yourself if you want.
 

Pastafazul

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what's funny is is you post as if you have all the experience in the world when you really have none.

i have had many coaches, mostly in baseball at all levels. basketball, just 2, could have been more, but chose baseball.

the 2 basketball coaches i had beat the game into you . whether it be torture, nah just torture! and we won! everything we did on court was a set play. they had other coaches come in from all over to teach us defenses. thats where i come from!

clearly, you have no clue what its like to have had coaches, or be a coach who wants to win at all costs!

my high school basketball coach looked like lurch, 6'6 scar faced bastit, all american baseball & basketball at U of Nebraska, played some pro ball, he made bobby knight look like an f n puss.

make a fool of myself? haha, yea, i have done a lot of that in my life being a world champ as an amature, then as pro
 

tlance

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what's funny is is you post as if you have all the experience in the world when you really have none.

i have had many coaches, mostly in baseball at all levels. basketball, just 2, could have been more, but chose baseball.

the 2 basketball coaches i had beat the game into you . whether it be torture, nah just torture! and we won! everything we did on court was a set play. they had other coaches come in from all over to teach us defenses. thats where i come from!

clearly, you have no clue what its like to have had coaches, or be a coach who wants to win at all costs!

my high school basketball coach looked like lurch, 6'6 scar faced bastit, all american baseball & basketball at U of Nebraska, played some pro ball, he made bobby knight look like an f n puss.

make a fool of myself? haha, yea, i have done a lot of that in my life being a world champ as an amature, then as pro

So, let me get by this straight.

We are talking about basketball here. Not other sports.

I played for more coaches than you in high school and have worked with 6 head coaches since. 3 of these coaches play (played) national schedules and 2 have multiple state championships on their resume.

So, how does my response lead you to believe I have little experience? I have a lot more than you, at least in terms of basketball. It isn't close. Not even in the ballpark.

But, if you think your experience playing baseball 40 years ago somehow qualifies you as a basketball expert, then LOL. Your posts on this thread definitively prove otherwise.

Like I said earlier, old school methods have been proven less effective than current methods. There is a reason why exactly 0 NBA coaches coach the way your high school coach taught you. All the best today use more cooperative methods. They still hold players accountable, but not by brute force like you suggest.

You are wrong, it is just too bad you don't know enough to realize it.
 

Pastafazul

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whats the difference the sport, a coach coaches! again "tough love" is what is needed in the NBA today. PERIOD!
the best players in the game were brought up on tough love, the biggest impact in their lives were their moms, Y, because they gave them tough love, thats what they respect, its what they need! coaches in the NBA get walked all over cause they are puffs! POP, only coach left who knows how to truly handle his players!

tough love its what gets the players to buy in! HEART!
 

msgkings322

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whats the difference the sport, a coach coaches! again "tough love" is what is needed in the NBA today. PERIOD!
the best players in the game were brought up on tough love, the biggest impact in their lives were their moms, Y, because they gave them tough love, thats what they respect, its what they need! coaches in the NBA get walked all over cause they are puffs! POP, only coach left who knows how to truly handle his players!

tough love its what gets the players to buy in! HEART!

Yeah if Steve Kerr doesn't figure out how to use tough love he's never gonna win anything!
 

tlance

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whats the difference the sport, a coach coaches! again "tough love" is what is needed in the NBA today. PERIOD!
the best players in the game were brought up on tough love, the biggest impact in their lives were their moms, Y, because they gave them tough love, thats what they respect, its what they need! coaches in the NBA get walked all over cause they are puffs! POP, only coach left who knows how to truly handle his players!

tough love its what gets the players to buy in! HEART!

Pop is not the old school coach you think he is. Not even close.

Yes, he is tough on players. But he also treats them with respect as partners. Dictatorships don't work when coaching grown men. They honestly don't even work all that well with kids.
 

Pastafazul

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i get it, i will tell you this , if the coaches don't figure out away to take back the game from the players, the future does not look good for the NBA....

hey man, i think its great you give back to the kids, what level you coaching at now, and what do you stress most?
 

tlance

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i get it, i will tell you this , if the coaches don't figure out away to take back the game from the players, the future does not look good for the NBA....

hey man, i think its great you give back to the kids, what level you coaching at now, and what do you stress most?

High school Varsity boys.

My personal philosophy is a defensive emphasis. Demand high effort both physically and mentally on defense, but allow players freedom to make mistakes on offense.

Nothing worse than a player who is scared to make a mistake. Confidence is as important as actual skill in predicting performance, especially for kids. Coaches who jerk kids in and out of the lineup for offensive mistakes tend to have less confident players. I have seen that first hand with some of the not good coaches I have worked with and played for.

A coach can still have high standards without being authoritarian.
 
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