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Kansas City Chiefs Ongoing Thread

Clayton

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I think Clyde Edwards Helaire can do everything a Devonta Freeman and a Devin Singletary can do. For him to get value at the NFL level, the big question will be whether or not he can stay healthy. If the Chiefs get five years out of him and then enter the 'franchise tag' game then they are riding out a good chunk of Mahomes' prime. Brian Westbrook had 6 productive years with the Eagles so I think thats the mark you really want to hit (or surpass) with this type of pick.

I haven't looked at the other players too closely. Willie Gay has a 98% Sparq score. He is just a big a freak as a guy like Myles Jack. Thats kind of my ballpark guess for him. Not sure how much of a headcase he is but the talent is there.

Lucas Niang is your typical Andy Reid olineman. Looks like a tackle, probably going to swing inside as a Guard. Upside for more and if so then he could end up being the best pick.
 

Clayton

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The gist I've gotten from Niang is that he was on his way to being a 1st round pick until he got injured. He seems to have elite hip movement and his ability to get to spots quickly is impressive.

The issue in his game, other than the medical red flag, is that he doesn't seem to have the footwork and/or functional strength to keep players from moving him back. So he doesn't give up sacks or pressures but he gets moved back pretty easily imo.

If his issue is footwork then if it gets fixed then he could totally be the Chiefs starting LT in a couple of years. If its more about his functional strength then he probably has all of the same limitations as Eric Fisher and would probably just be an okay starting OT. My 'common sense' radar does make me think that the intention with this pick is to replace Fisher at some point. Andy Reid likes tackles that can swing inside but Niang legitimately looks like a Tackle prospect.
 

Fountain City Blues

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Mostly ok with this draft outside the weirdness of drafting a RB in the 1st round. Willie Gay seems like the odds on favorite to be most transformational player for this Chiefs team in 2020, however. Snead may be pressed into duty much sooner than anyone would like to have a day 3 DB in there. Doubly not great we'll see some teams with a pulse the first couple months while Breeland is suspended/limbo, maybe the most important part of the schedule as it stands today.

CEH, position value aside, is a good fit for this offense and team. Niang is, as far as I can tell, a pretty solid OL prospect for the 3rd round. Maybe he ends up at OG or OT longterm. If not starting somewhere on the line this year, should be a viable swing player for the upcoming season.

If Willie Gay is the real deal it's transformational in how the Chiefs can defend sideline to sideline. The 49ers aren't going away. The Ravens likely aren't either. Maybe Herbert pans out. Colts could be good if Rivers isn't completely washed. Chiefs will have their hands full, like any team should, trying to repeat. Mahomes pulling wins out of his ass isn't exactly much of a plan. Less comebacks, more start to finish dominance.
 

Clayton

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Mostly ok with this draft outside the weirdness of drafting a RB in the 1st round. Willie Gay seems like the odds on favorite to be most transformational player for this Chiefs team in 2020, however. Snead may be pressed into duty much sooner than anyone would like to have a day 3 DB in there. Doubly not great we'll see some teams with a pulse the first couple months while Breeland is suspended/limbo, maybe the most important part of the schedule as it stands today.

CEH, position value aside, is a good fit for this offense and team. Niang is, as far as I can tell, a pretty solid OL prospect for the 3rd round. Maybe he ends up at OG or OT longterm. If not starting somewhere on the line this year, should be a viable swing player for the upcoming season.

If Willie Gay is the real deal it's transformational in how the Chiefs can defend sideline to sideline. The 49ers aren't going away. The Ravens likely aren't either. Maybe Herbert pans out. Colts could be good if Rivers isn't completely washed. Chiefs will have their hands full, like any team should, trying to repeat. Mahomes pulling wins out of his ass isn't exactly much of a plan. Less comebacks, more start to finish dominance.
I feel like CEH is mostly a product of this draft. Chiefs had no ammo to trade up and no one wanted to trade back. CB was easily the most reached for position in the draft. I think in a normal draft the Chiefs would have traded back. I do think RB was going to be one of their top 2 picks regardless. Chiefs need to be able to do what they did in the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really hasn't been able to stay healthy/productive in his career.

I personally think CEH and Gay both have roughly the same value. They fit on their units as a splash player but they're only going to be productive if the trenches hold up. That said, Gay has a level of upside that only a dozen or so players have in the draft and if he hits then he'll probably be seen in the same light as Chris Jones.

That said, CEH pretty much has to be the transformative player. I don't want to see Mahomes getting hurt running the football
 

ChiefsLakers67

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I feel like CEH is mostly a product of this draft. Chiefs had no ammo to trade up and no one wanted to trade back. CB was easily the most reached for position in the draft. I think in a normal draft the Chiefs would have traded back. I do think RB was going to be one of their top 2 picks regardless. Chiefs need to be able to do what they did in the Super Bowl and Damien Williams really hasn't been able to stay healthy/productive in his career.

I personally think CEH and Gay both have roughly the same value. They fit on their units as a splash player but they're only going to be productive if the trenches hold up. That said, Gay has a level of upside that only a dozen or so players have in the draft and if he hits then he'll probably be seen in the same light as Chris Jones.

That said, CEH pretty much has to be the transformative player. I don't want to see Mahomes getting hurt running the football

the review on Gay so far have been positive. we'll see if he turns into the 2nd coming of Derrick Thomas, though...
 

BigKen

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So where are all of the Chiefs fans? No game thread for the Chargers and not one comment.

The Chargers' coach is brain dead and his horrible time management and OC play calling were the two things that allowed Butker to save the Chiefs for the second week in a row.

The Chiefs have that SB Virus that teams seem to get after slipping on a ring.
 

Fountain City Blues

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So where are all of the Chiefs fans? No game thread for the Chargers and not one comment.

The Chargers' coach is brain dead and his horrible time management and OC play calling were the two things that allowed Butker to save the Chiefs for the second week in a row.

The Chiefs have that SB Virus that teams seem to get after slipping on a ring.
Just not that many of us on the Hoop.

But the defense leaves some things to be desired suspension/injuries or not.

Offense got beat up which will happen sometimes against talented defenses, but Schwartz struggling as badly as he did when we're used to him pitching shutouts is a bit concerning. I have a feeling the Chargers allow 20 PPG or under when the season is over. That defense is legit.
 

Fountain City Blues

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Few observations from the game:

1) Secondary needs Ward back
2) Sneed should not give his job back up to Breeland, he has been very impressive for a day 3 rookie
3) Nevertheless the Chiefs need Breeland back, the depth at CB is paper thin and BoPete Keyes and Antonio Hamilton are not serious CB's that should be playing
4) Clark is highly unreliable be it health or inconsistency in his play
5) Danna looks like a useful rotational guy, not a legit starter; could improve, but that's where his level of play is at right now
6) Pennell is gonna be needed to help lock down inside runs
7) Niemann is borderline unplayable against the run, I am sorry; he is a mistackle machine and free Willie Gay
8) Thornhill does not look 100%, missed an easy INT on the first Herbert TD.
9) Schwartz got owned badly, hoping it's just he went up against Bosa/Ingram and friends; we need him to keep pitching shutouts
10) Hardman has remarkably little chemistry with Mahomes
11) OL made it pretty much impossible for the offense to play their brand of football; styles make fights, but the OL didn't put up much of a fight against the Charger front really
12) Would like to see more downfield routes for CEH, he looks pretty good
 
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Clayton

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So where are all of the Chiefs fans? No game thread for the Chargers and not one comment.

The Chargers' coach is brain dead and his horrible time management and OC play calling were the two things that allowed Butker to save the Chiefs for the second week in a row.

The Chiefs have that SB Virus that teams seem to get after slipping on a ring.
Chiefs had this type of game last year against the Lions although in ways it was worse. Not sure it has anything to do with the SB unless it keeps happening. As far as I can tell, the team that loses the SB is the team that always gets hit harder.

Few observations from the game:

1) Secondary needs Ward back
2) Sneed should not give his job back up to Breeland, he has been very impressive for a day 3 rookie
3) Nevertheless the Chiefs need Breeland back, the depth at CB is paper thin and BoPete Keyes and Antonio Hamilton are not serious CB's that should be playing
4) Clark is highly unreliable be it health or inconsistency in his play
5) Danna looks like a useful rotational guy, not a legit starter; could improve, but that's where his level of play is at right now
6) Pennell is gonna be needed to help lock down inside runs
7) Niemann is borderline unplayable against the run, I am sorry; he is a mistackle machine and free Willie Gay
8) Thornhill does not look 100%, missed an easy INT on the first Herbert TD.
9) Schwartz got owned badly, hoping it's just he went up against Bosa/Ingram and friends; we need him to keep pitching shutouts
10) Hardman has remarkably little chemistry with Mahomes
11) OL made it pretty much impossible for the offense to play their brand of football; styles make fights, but the OL didn't put up much of a fight against the Charger front really
12) Would like to see more downfield routes for CEH, he looks pretty good
I'll add that the Chiefs just generally looked sluggish on offense. Some drops and some penalties that can't really happen if you want to be a team that is a high flying offense. Chargers held the Chiefs to 31 and 24 last year and they had some injuries. Chiefs aren't going to blow the doors off that defense. Schwartz giving up 2 sacks so far this year when he was basically a wall for the entire 2019 season is a little alarming but lets see how this plays out.

Herbert's good game was more of a function of the Chiefs not being a good defense imo. Herbert did have a couple of big throws and you see the upside but its hard to look at the names on many of the Chiefs jerseys and think they'll be able to do much against something like the Ravens offense. If the Chiefs come out as sluggish against the Ravens as they did against the Chargers then they'll be down something like 17-0 and not 7-0.

The next four games are against teams that will probably be playoff teams: Ravens, Patriots, Raiders, Bills. Its weird putting the Raiders into this conversation but with the Broncos hitting every single injury bug in the book its probably not hard seeing LV go 4-2 or maybe even 5-1 in the division. This is the tough stretch of the schedule for the Chiefs. The road to the #1 seed won't be won here but it absolutely can be lost. I'm kinda worried that someone like Bellichick is going to notice all of the bums the Chiefs have on defense and create a blueprint.
 

Clayton

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I'd also like to note that footballoutsiders has the Ravens as clearly the best team after 2 weeks and KC as the 10th best team after two weeks. The Ravens only being 3 point favorites is a massive amount of respect for Mahomes and Andy Reid.

Kpassagnon has been the starter so far on the dline. I was watching a Brett Kollman preview of the Super Bowl last year and he specifically isolated a couple of players as 'not fitting the Chiefs defense when it came to run defense' and Kpassagnon was one of them. Against the Chargers the Chiefs basically run Nnadi and a bunch of DEs with Chris Jones being that hybrid guy that plays in the traditional Spags defenses. Against the Ravens, I suspect they are going to look more like they did against the Titans and Niners in the Super Bowl with a bigger set of dlinemen. Who is healthy, though? Not even sure relying on Frank Clark right now is even a thing which means that Danna, Kpassagnon, and Taco Charlton? are supposed to be setting the edge. Okafur and Saunders seem like they'd have a role if they were healthy.

I wouldn't be terribly stunned if this group is blown out here against the run and the media wonders if the Chiefs aren't the Chiefs then the team gets healthy and looks better in the 2nd half of the season. Although the Chiefs did beat the Ravens last year when the Chiefs D was figuring itself out so anything is possible. I'm giving Spags the benefit of the doubt that he at least has good concepts. I feel like he has proven that. I'm just not sure how many injuries the defense can sustain.
 

Clayton

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I'm just here saying that Spagnuolo is doing a great job. Honey Badger and Frank Clark played like All Pros against the Patriots. Hoyer was still able to make a lot of good plays against the Chiefs. Its just that his (and Edelman's) bad plays were so bad that it didn't matter. I feel like Thornhill is one step away from being an All Pro level player, too. He'll be curious to watch as the season progresses.

Chiefs weren't very good with 3rd down offense against the Patriots. Mahomes was able to get his stats but the Patriots were really good at mixing things up on defense enough to give Mahomes issues. Pats didn't blitz much so that when they did it worked. Thats something Mahomes is probably going to see from now on.

Footballoutsiders has the Chiefs as the worst special teams in football after 4 weeks. KC is also 28th in 1st quarter scoring. There is still a lot for this team to work on but for having 2 fairly pedestrian offensive games, the Chiefs are 4-0. Its hard to complain.
 
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Tomhusker

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A Pats fan on their team board is complaining that the refs are protecting Mahomes, and it's not fair.

How fucking ironic.
 

Clayton

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I think its fair to say that the Chiefs defense is great when it goes up against one-dimensional offenses but it breaks down entirely when going up against balanced offenses.

Its weird to see the Patriots choose to attack the Raiders with the run and the Chiefs chose the pass and didnt run it. Ive seen a lot online criticizing the offense but its the defense that lost that game, though. The Chiefs needed to score points because the Raiders had no issues on the other end. Raiders were able to match the Chiefs blow by blow and they had fewer penalties and made a couple more plays.

If the Broncos tank for a QB, this division could be a bloodbath moving forward.
 

CaptainStubing

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I think its fair to say that the Chiefs defense is great when it goes up against one-dimensional offenses but it breaks down entirely when going up against balanced offenses.

Its weird to see the Patriots choose to attack the Raiders with the run and the Chiefs chose the pass and didnt run it. Ive seen a lot online criticizing the offense but its the defense that lost that game. Raiders were able to match the Chiefs blow by blow and they had fewer penalties and made a couple more plays.

If the Broncos tank for a QB, this division could be a bloodbath moving forward.

Chiefs got dominated in the trenches. Raiders only had to rush 4 all day and ran the ball at will which slowed down the chiefs pass rush. Raiders played their A game. Chiefs played their C game. That equals a loss
 

Clayton

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Chiefs got dominated in the trenches. Raiders only had to rush 4 all day and ran the ball at will which slowed down the chiefs pass rush. Raiders played their A game. Chiefs played their C game. That equals a loss
It was more than the trenches. Chiefs secondary got roasted. Raiders skill players are better than Chiefs secondary players and they could run the ball, too. Chiefs also had some major penalties. I do think its fair to say they played their 'C' game but they played at that same level against the Patriots and Chargers imo.
 

Clayton

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Is Andy Reid a ghost whisperer when it comes to the oline? Chiefs offense has every excuse to fail with these oline injuries but they ran a good gameplan against the Bills. Still a sloppy game in terms of penalties and their field position was garbage but the offense and defense looked good overall.
 

Clayton

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The Broncos remind me a lot of the Spagnuolo/Bradford Rams. Chiefs really struggled on offense but they still blew out the Broncos.
 

Clayton

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Panthers have a good offense and took some pretty big risks. Bridgewater is probably going to have a really good career for them but the Chiefs d held in the third quarter and eventually at the end. Thankfully Kuechly retired because otherwise Chiefs probably don't win that one.
 

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Panthers have a good offense and took some pretty big risks. Bridgewater is probably going to have a really good career for them but the Chiefs d held in the third quarter and eventually at the end. Thankfully Kuechly retired because otherwise Chiefs probably don't win that one.

The Panthers played about as well as they can and almost came away with the victory.

Chiefs could not run the ball and Mahomes was a little too focused on Tyreek, especially in the first half, and that's what led to field goal attempts instead of TD's.

he was 9 of 18 throwing to Tyreek.

he was 21 of 27 throwing to everyone else.

i'm sure Andy will have a talk with him but i noticed several times he would just focus directly on Tyreek as the 1st option and even if he wasn't open he would throw to him.

defense did not look good but imo they've only had 2 bad games this season (this one and the raiders) so i expect them to bounce back.
 

Clayton

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The Panthers played about as well as they can and almost came away with the victory.

Chiefs could not run the ball and Mahomes was a little too focused on Tyreek, especially in the first half, and that's what led to field goal attempts instead of TD's.

he was 9 of 18 throwing to Tyreek.

he was 21 of 27 throwing to everyone else.

i'm sure Andy will have a talk with him but i noticed several times he would just focus directly on Tyreek as the 1st option and even if he wasn't open he would throw to him.

defense did not look good but imo they've only had 2 bad games this season (this one and the raiders) so i expect them to bounce back.
I think part of the reason the defense looked bad is that the Panthers made some plays. The fake punt was big for them. Dirty Dan is a weak point on the defense and has been for years. He does make splash plays but IIRC the Panthers went after him.

The Bell signing is the biggest nothingburger news story of the year, though. He needs to step up or else he wont even be on the roster come playoff time.
 
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