Justin Wilson Moved To Bullpen

[magnumo]

Scroll to the bottom at this link.

Major-league offense still going down in 2011 - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

I'm kinda surprised by this move, regardless of the explanation. I thought Wilson was doing reasonably well as a starter, except for his control issues. On the other hand, I'm surprised that he's touching 99 as a reliever. Never knew he had that in him.

 

[thecrow124]

Scroll to the bottom at this link.

Major-league offense still going down in 2011 - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

I'm kinda surprised by this move, regardless of the explanation. I thought Wilson was doing reasonably well as a starter, except for his control issues. On the other hand, I'm surprised that he's touching 99 as a reliever. Never knew he had that in him.

He has been in the pen for a couple weeks now and the increase in velo has come with a decrease in wildness. It seems that the natural movement of his pitches was exponentially increased by the reduced speed.
I think they also said that the move might not be permanent, but if he goes back to the rotation, I think as a pitching coach I would tell him to just let his fastball rip, I am personally not convinced that the force to throw a 94 MPH fastball is much different than the force required to throw a 99 mph fastball.
Lastly, I think this and the Morris move were both made to ensure that both could be viable major league relievers before next season. Morris because if he can't he would have to be removed from the 40 man and for Wilson he has to be added to the 40 man.

 

[element1286]

He's touching 99 as a reliever on whose gun?

Either way, I don't think this move means Wilson has to be a reliever long term, although I think he would be very good in that role. Morris on the other hand seems like a long term move, IMO.

 

[thecrow124]

He's touching 99 as a reliever on whose gun?

Either way, I don't think this move means Wilson has to be a reliever long term, although I think he would be very good in that role. Morris on the other hand seems like a long term move, IMO.

I am not sure whose gun, I read a story on PP about it a week or so ago. Jen Langosch also mentioned him hitting 99 in one of her stories.

 

[magnumo]

Maholm to DL

Huntington indicated that Wilson's move to the pen might not be permanent, and I hope that's accurate.

By putting Maholm on the DL, the Pirates likely will move to an all RH rotation. I've heard previous comments by the club about not being concerned which hand a guy throws with, as long as he can get hitters from both sides out. Unfortunately, that sounds like talk from a team who doesn't have any viable LH starters..... in a home park which decidedly favors LH starters.

Other than rooting for all Pirates, I've never been that high on Maholm. Similarly to Zach Duke, he pitched very well when he first came up..... but then it seems that the league's hitters figured him out. Yes, Maholm pitches well at times, but it seems that he needs to have everything working to be effective.

I had been hoping that Maholm would start this season off well, such that he could be traded for something of value. Although he DID pitch well for the most part, the situation developed in such a way as to prevent him from being traded. The Pirates had their unexpectedly good first half, which obviously made it harder to trade a member of a starting rotation at the heart of their surge. Then, Maholm's luck wasn't good enough to show up as wins from his good pitching. Say what you will, but many major league front offices place major value on wins and losses for a starter.

At any rate, I had been hoping against hope that Owens or Wilson would step up and prove to be a viable replacement for Maholm, as I thought his departure prior to his option year was inevitable. But neither of them stepping up is an unwelcome step backward.

Finally, it seems that this announcement of Maholm going on the DL came out of nowhere. That has me wondering about the legitimacy of his "strain." On the other hand, it would seem foolish for the Bucs to disable a guy if they were trying to trade him. We shall see.

Pittsburgh Pirates place Paul Maholm on disabled list - ESPN

 

[Illinest]

Wilson isn't going to be a starter. Neither will Lincoln or Owens or Marte or Locke. Well...Locke might still have a shot.

Go back and look at how Maholm, Duke, and Gorzelleny rolled through the high minors and then look at how these other guys are struggling.

 

[magnumo]

Wilson isn't going to be a starter. Neither will Lincoln or Owens or Marte or Locke. Well...Locke might still have a shot.

Go back and look at how Maholm, Duke, and Gorzelleny rolled through the high minors and then look at how these other guys are struggling.

Hmmm..... if that's the case, then I see deep trouble for this team going forward. When do you think the steady stream of major league talent is going to start showing up?

I define "steady stream of major league talent" as players who can fill holes created by trades, injuries, or just bad players..... perform above replacement value, and stay on the major league roster on their own merits. Clearly that hasn't happened in 2011, with the possible exception of Presley..... and we can't be sure about him until he returns from that hand injury and continues to perform well.

Alvarez is the obvious elephant in the room. If and when he starts to perform (anywhere close to expectations), that will be a major talent coming out of the farm system. But your post seems to indicate that you don't see much other potential help.

 

[element1286]

Wilson isn't going to be a starter. Neither will Lincoln or Owens or Marte or Locke. Well...Locke might still have a shot.

Go back and look at how Maholm, Duke, and Gorzelleny rolled through the high minors and then look at how these other guys are struggling.

(Hits per 9/BB's per 9/K's per 9)

Maholm at AAA - 10.1/5.3/3.0
Duke at AAA - 9.0/5.5/1.9
Gorzo at AAA - 6.1/8.4/2.4

Owens at AAA - 10.3/5.7/2.6
Lincoln at AAA - 9.1/7.4/1.9
Wilson at AAA - 8.7/6.8/4.7

How you can characterize Maholm/Duke/Gorzo as breezing through the high minors and the other three as struggling is ridiculous.

 

[Illinest]

Maholm allowed less hits, less walks, and struck out more batters than Owens.
Duke allowed less hits, a lot less walks, and struck out the same number.
Gorzelleny allowed less hits/walks combined, but Wilson IS at least striking more guys out.

And all the guys I listed made the majors when they were 22 or 23. Owens is the only one of that group that has a chance to do the same - and with the way he's pitching this year I don't know if that's gonna happen.

If you want to quibble over my use of the word 'rolled' then I'll just drop it, but my group had a clear performance advantage over your group.

And for Magnumo - the steady stream of ML talent isn't gonna show up for another 2-4 years. The class of overslots that included Cain and Van Rosenberg, plus Taillon, etc...
Elements' group of pitchers are the schlubs that we're gonna have to field in the meantime. I think they'd all profile better out of the bullpen and I'd like to think that we can sign a real starter in FA soon.

 

[element1286]

Fair enough, they made it sooner, but there is still nothing to suggest Lincoln and Owens can't be starters in the majors. Wilson not so much, he looks like a pen guy in the long run, and probably a good one.

 

[magnumo]

Wait a second.....

(Hits per 9/BB's per 9/K's per 9)

Maholm at AAA - 10.1/5.3/3.0
Duke at AAA - 9.0/5.5/1.9
Gorzo at AAA - 6.1/8.4/2.4

Owens at AAA - 10.3/5.7/2.6
Lincoln at AAA - 9.1/7.4/1.9
Wilson at AAA - 8.7/6.8/4.7

How you can characterize Maholm/Duke/Gorzo as breezing through the high minors and the other three as struggling is ridiculous.

Hey, element. I didn't check your numbers, but don't you have either the numbers or the labels reversed (between K's and BB's)? If so.....

- Owens' numbers are slightly better than Maholm's..... with a slightly higher K rate and a slightly lower WHIP.

- Lincoln's and Duke's numbers are similar, with Lincoln's 1.9 higher K rate probably more than offsetting Duke's 0.1 advantage in WHIP.

- Gorzelanny remains the clear winner over Wilson.

 

[element1286]

You're right, Mags, the two labels are switched.