Just Sayin'

[Diego Roll Tide]

That's the whole point about scheduling. Alabama won't play any decent G5 teams. Can't give any of those middling teams any money. We'll schedule UTmartin instead.

Memphis needs the Alabamas. Alabama doesn’t need Memphis.

Get the fuck over it.

 

[WizardHawk]

I agree 100%...but I can't see anyone offering the kind of money that wouldn't be a significant reduction from what the G5 are getting now. The demand to see those G5s play each other just isn't there. But I think that demand would be better than what it is for some of these shitty bowl games involving G5s right now.

And let's be honest here, there are quite a few P5s that don't draw the eyeballs either...and they are also feasting on the P5 cash tit that is generated by the P5s that are big draws. Those big draws are willing to share the milk from their tits in order to have some cannon fodder.

(tldr - skip to last paragraph)
The power conferences (more or less with the G5's) took over college football in 1997. Before that time the NCAA was a full member institution with representatives from all divisions having equal votes. Bama's vote didn't count for more than some podunk DIII school. There was a movement for the power schools to leave the NCAA and form their own coalition. Everyone else caved into the restructure to keep that from happening. Everyone not a power school gave up their rights fully and willingly to keep the NCAA together. Remember, the NCAA owns the playoffs/championships for everything BUT FBS football. Up to that point there wasn't a playoff or anything to own. The bowl system ruled the financial landscape and polls were the goal.

In '97 the other members gave up a LOT to keep the power schools. The current structure of the NCAA is anything but level. FBS (including the G5's) have supermajority voting rights, meaning they can basically override anything DII and lower want and they took full control over the revenues for all levels. Now they broke things up into federations so the lower divisions could vote on their own things for themselves which is nice, but they basically have no say in the overall NCAA rules that all others live by. They also added a clause that if the NCAA ever managed a playoff for what is now FBS, that that federation would be in full control of it and take 100% of the revenue from it.

Why did everyone else cave in? Because they were worried the NCAA basketball tournaments would fall apart with the FBS teams leaving and that's the lions share of the NCAA revenues. The football schools wanted to go make more money and have control of their rules, but it's basketball that kept things the way they ended up. All of those lower divisions would be out a lot of money if those other championships were taken away from the NCAA pool. This also impacts the G5's and their basketball programs/monies.

They were further neutered again in '15 when the FBS threatened to leave without more concessions. Mind you, it was empty threats, but it worked. The P5's really can't afford to entirely break off. They need G5's to pad wins sure, they also need the NCAA for their basketball programs and the threats from the smaller schools to push congress to act were real and viable. Everyone caved again to maintain the status quo.

So for anyone that made it this far (lolz) it's a lot more complicated than simply can the G5's make up the money. I'd imagine they could make up most if not all and be in full control of their own policies, but the P5's have all the power and voting blocks. The G5's can't leave the NCAA all together and they'd need the P5's permission (essentially) to further subdivide FBS because they have complete control of that division at the NCAA level.

 

[Deep Creek]

but the P5's have all the power and voting blocks.

True, but let's not pretend that all P5s carry the same weight as others...especially when it comes to football. There are only a handful that can really demand things...especially when it comes to football. Fans are much more likely to tune it to view Oklahoma vs K-State than they are Texas Tech vs K-State. j/s

 

[WizardHawk]

True, but let's not pretend that all P5s carry the same weight as others...especially when it comes to football. There are only a handful that can really demand things...especially when it comes to football. Fans are much more likely to tune it to view Oklahoma vs K-State than they are Texas Tech vs K-State. j/s

When it comes to any talk of G5's having their own playoffs, or otherwise moving off the teat of the P5 machine, it's about raw voting blocks and each sides interest in change or the status quo. As long as the P5's are getting richer off this system, there is zero chance they would vote to let the G5's have their own and those G5's have zero leverage.

The only chance the system ever changes is after the fallout of the big money when the cable companies and ESPN finally crash. Whenever that will be. The money is the ONLY thing that can bring change.

 

[Deep Creek]

When it comes to any talk of G5's having their own playoffs, or otherwise moving off the teat of the P5 machine, it's about raw voting blocks and each sides interest in change or the status quo. As long as the P5's are getting richer off this system, there is zero chance they would vote to let the G5's have their own and those G5's have zero leverage.

The only chance the system ever changes is after the fallout of the big money when the cable companies and ESPN finally crash. Whenever that will be. The money is the ONLY thing that can bring change.

I agree with all that.

What I totally disagree with is those that pretend that ALL P5s are equal. They ain't. Not even close. The biggies' voice is a hell of a lot louder. If they say "jump", the other P5s just have to say "how high?"

Anyone that thinks all P5s are the same is living in lala land.

 

[WizardHawk]

I agree with all that.

What I totally disagree with is those that pretend that ALL P5s are equal. They ain't. Not even close. The biggies' voice is a hell of a lot louder. If they say "jump", the other P5s just have to say "how high?"

Anyone that thinks all P5s are the same is living in lala land.

Wait, you don't think Rutgers has as much pull as Ohio State?

 

[Deep Creek]

Wait, you don't think Rutgers has as much pull as Ohio State?

Some think they do.

 

[NU_FTW]

Some think they do.

What P5 program believes they are more than they are?

 

[bocomo007]

this was a shit thread

 

[Deep Creek]

What P5 program believes they are more than they are?

Not programs/teams. Fans. Programs/schools know who brings home the bacon.

 

[NU_FTW]

Not programs/teams. Fans. Programs/schools know who brings home the bacon.

Well it isnt hard when you look at the teams that make the most money and teams who are 100% funded by their own athletic program

i think you are talking about schools like oregon who thinks they are a someone hmm?

 

[Rolltide94]

That's the whole point about scheduling. Alabama won't play any decent G5 teams. Can't give any of those middling teams any money. We'll schedule UTmartin instead.

This will problem surprise you, due to your Memphis fandom being all new and shiny like a penny, but Memphis and Alabama have played 8 times, y'all actually one once back in 1987. The only reason we quit was because quite frankly y'all were starting to smell like fish...two season over 7 wins in the 35 years before your first 10 win season in 2014...that hardly makes Memphis a decent G5 program.

This has been the best 5 year run in the history of Memphis football, I'll believe it's going to continue when it actually continues.

 

[Rolltide94]

Did I ever say that Memphis should be ranked higher? They should not. They had the best season in their history. They beat just as many good teams as Baylor or Clemson. Are they better than Baylor or Clemson? Probably not. Will Baylor Schedule them? No.

If they had beaten Temple, they would still be in the same boat. I'm saying that there is no chance for a team outside the P5 to ever make the CFP.

If you are looking for a team that if they went 12-0 could make the playoffs, look at Fresno State. Since the CFP era began the have played 2 P5 teams every year, in 2017 they scheduled Washington and Alabama the year after they met in the CFP Semi-final. 2014 it was Nebraska/USC, 2015 it was Utah/Ole Miss...and the have been a perennial Mountain West contender. Their future schedule has two P5's every season, USC twice, Texas A&M, Arizona State.

Y'all don't have a season in the next five with two P5's scheduled...and the P5's you have are Mississippi State twice and Arkansas 3 times...fuck off with the nobody will schedule us bullshit. C'mon down to Tuscaloosa, we might even kick your ass for free, you wouldn't even have to pay us.

Obviously some of it is beyond your control, your conference also has to perform, but I can assure you that playing Arkansas State, Purdue, UTSA and UT Martin is not going to get it done in 2020, not unless the AAC get 3 teams in the top 15....which is not likely to happen, as the best team any other AAC contender has scheduled OOC next year went 6-6 this year.

 

[Angry red]

Memphis was robbed of a chance to go undefeated at Temple by a very controversial call. Would there be any clamor to include them in the CFP had they won the game at Temple and were 13-0?

I think there would have been clamor, but no real argument to include them.

My point is this: No matter how good a G5 team is, they will never be included in the CFP.

They should change college football D-1 to three tiers and let the teams in G5 play for a championship.

Thoughts?

Just sayin' is a super gay phrase and a way of making an argument without owning it.

Didn't read. I'm proud of that.

 

[Deep Creek]

Well it isnt hard when you look at the teams that make the most money and teams who are 100% funded by their own athletic program

i think you are talking about schools like oregon who thinks they are a someone hmm?

Not only do those teams you describe make the most money/fund their own programs, they are also the reasons the networks are willing to fork over the cash that benefits the rest of their conference brethren.

Some Oregon fans may be as delusional as you describe. If they think they are a "national draw" they can continue to live in that fantasy. I think most of them know what they truly are. Schools like them and Okie Lite that have a Pickens/Knight type sugar daddy can fund their programs but still aren't needle movers per se.