Just How Good Are Ty France and Mitch Haniger?

[PolarVortex]

Here is a ;list of the top 15 MLB players in a rather nerdy, uncelebrated stat I use to help me determine the fantasy value of players:

Runs scored + runs batted in - homeruns. (I call it 'Runs Produced' but it is really only half of a run produced.)

The current, as of this morning, top 15 players in this weirdo category:
Acuna -30
JD Martines - 26
Turner - 24
Haniger 23
Verdugo - 22
Marte - 21
Canha - 20
Eaton - 20
Lowrie - 20
Muncy - 19
N Lowe - 19
Wendle - 19
France - 19
Ohtani - 19

 

[NWinAZ]

Here is a ;list of the top 15 MLB players in a rather nerdy, uncelebrated stat I use to help me determine the fantasy value of players:

Runs scored + runs batted in - homeruns. (I call it 'Runs Produced' but it is really only half of a run produced.)

The current, as of this morning, top 15 players in this weirdo category:
Acuna -30
JD Martines - 26
Turner - 24
Haniger 23
Verdugo - 22
Marte - 21
Canha - 20
Eaton - 20
Lowrie - 20
Muncy - 19
N Lowe - 19
Wendle - 19
France - 19
Ohtani - 19

LOL I used that decades ago and I love seeing someone in this modern day of analytics use it today. To me it is the nuts and bolts of baseball.

It is great seeing a couple M's on the list.

I applaud you.

 

[PolarVortex]

Updated for Zona, because I'm such a nice guy.

JD Martinez 44
Acuna 39
Haniger 36
Vlad, Jr 36
Merrifield 36
Bryant 36
Turner 35
Story 35
Lowrie 35
Baez 34
Peralta 34
Ohtani 34
Bichette 34
Taylor 34
McMahon 34

 

[NWinAZ]

Updated for Zona, because I'm such a nice guy.

JD Martinez 44
Acuna 39
Haniger 36
Vlad, Jr 36
Merrifield 36
Bryant 36
Turner 35
Story 35
Lowrie 35
Baez 34
Peralta 34
Ohtani 34
Bichette 34
Taylor 34
McMahon 34

First off, thank you. Second, looking at the list Merrifield is a guy I always wanted. The other thing that stands out is Toronto has 2 youngsters on the list which to me is a team Mariners are looking to copy. It will be interesting to see if they build a playoff team with their young prospects leading the way though they actually opened the checkbook and added professional hitters to heliport the kids.

 

[PolarVortex]

First off, thank you. Second, looking at the list Merrifield is a guy I always wanted. The other thing that stands out is Toronto has 2 youngsters on the list which to me is a team Mariners are looking to copy. It will be interesting to see if they build a playoff team with their young prospects leading the way though they actually opened the checkbook and added professional hitters to heliport the kids.

I'm ready for Ty France to start hitting again. He's hit well at every level he has ever played. I still have faith in him.
Nice start at Tacoma for Kelenic. We'll be seeing him soon.
Kyle Lewis shaking off the rust and starting to hit. JP starting to hit.
Haniger
Kelenic
Lewis
Seager
France
Crawford.
We might get some mileage out of a top 6 like that.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'm ready for Ty France to start hitting again. He's hit well at every level he has ever played. I still have faith in him.
Nice start at Tacoma for Kelenic. We'll be seeing him soon.
Kyle Lewis shaking off the rust and starting to hit. JP starting to hit.
Haniger
Kelenic
Lewis
Seager
France
Crawford.
We might get some mileage out of a top 6 like that.

The big advantage of signing professional hitters to stretch out your lineup is taking pressure not only off rookies, but off your only 3 real hitters. I think the pressure of trying to carry the lineup is catching up with France and Haniger. Seager seems to be doing Seager.

 

[PolarVortex]

Bichette 85
Vlad, Jr 84
Chris Fucking Taylor 76
Acuna 76
Austin Meadows 76
Jesse Seriously? Winkler 73
JDM 73
Devers 73
Matt Olson 72
Mancini 71
Tatis, Jr 71
Ohtani 71
Merrifield 71
Kyle As If The Astros Didn't Have Enough
Wealth Of Offensive Players Already Tucker 71

 

[MarinersBestFan]

I understand the math on this stat.

A guy with a real high walk rate ( on base % ) and also a guy with a high batting avg that gets him on base alot also will benefit.
But it seems the thing out of his control ( being driven in and scoring ) is dependant upon the quality of the hitters batting behind him.

What is the logic to deduct his HR's ?

Just trying to understand here

 

[blstoker]

I understand the math on this stat.

A guy with a real high walk rate ( on base % ) and also a guy with a high batting avg that gets him on base alot also will benefit.
But it seems the thing out of his control ( being driven in and scoring ) is dependant upon the quality of the hitters batting behind him.

What is the logic to deduct his HR's ?

Just trying to understand here

Because runs produced are to calculate how many runs a player had a direct hand in, and HRs account for a run and a rbi for the hitter.

Example: When a guy hits a solo HR he scores 1 run for the team, but gets a run scored and an RBI on the stat sheet. IF HRs weren't removed then he'd be given 2 runs produced for 1 run scored by the team.

 

[NWinAZ]

Bichette 85
Vlad, Jr 84
Chris Fucking Taylor 76
Acuna 76
Austin Meadows 76
Jesse Seriously? Winkler 73
JDM 73
Devers 73
Matt Olson 72
Mancini 71
Tatis, Jr 71
Ohtani 71
Merrifield 71
Kyle As If The Astros Didn't Have Enough
Wealth Of Offensive Players Already Tucker 71

Again, my favorite stat. Why did you leave the Mariner players off the list??? LOL.

 

[PolarVortex]

Again, my favorite stat. Why did you leave the Mariner players off the list??? LOL.

You'll have to settle for Chris Taylor, although, if he was still a mariner, I doubt he'd be on the list.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I'm a huge Ty France fan and believe there is a compelling argument that he is the best pure hitter on the team.

Maybe the Moneyball book and movie has completely indoctrinated me, but I love guys like him who hit and get on base.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'm a huge Ty France fan and believe there is a compelling argument that he is the best pure hitter on the team.

Maybe the Moneyball book and movie has completely indoctrinated me, but I love guys like him who hit and get on base.

Just keep him away from 3B.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm a huge Ty France fan and believe there is a compelling argument that he is the best pure hitter on the team.

Maybe the Moneyball book and movie has completely indoctrinated me, but I love guys like him who hit and get on base.

But on an American League team that is just called a good DH, not a Moneyball player.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But on an American League team that is just called a good DH, not a Moneyball player.

I was mostly speaking to hit ability at the plate.

I've said this before, but it's not like he lacks the athleticism to play a position. They just need to find him a spot. Perhaps this is an old school line of thought but I feel like the DH position should be reserved for three types of players: (1) Players who can hit but you can't justify playing in the field (2) Vets who can still hit but you don't want to play in the field (see Nelson Cruz) and (3) Giving a position player a day off from fielding.

I don't really think France really fits into any of those categories.

 

[NWinAZ]

I was mostly speaking to hit ability at the plate.

I've said this before, but it's not like he lacks the athleticism to play a position. They just need to find him a spot. Perhaps this is an old school line of thought but I feel like the DH position should be reserved for three types of players: (1) Players who can hit but you can't justify playing in the field (2) Vets who can still hit but you don't want to play in the field (see Nelson Cruz) and (3) Giving a position player a day off from fielding.

I don't really think France really fits into any of those categories.

France hasn't impressed my at 2B because of his lack of range. He scares me at 3B because his arm is wild. But he has really come around at 1B and I have no problem sacrificing some power at the position for his bat.

You nailed the DH thought for me.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Just keep him away from 3B.

I actually don't think I've seen him play at 3B so nothing stands out there to me. If he can play there, he would be a good replacement for Kyle Seager.

I say "replacement for Kyle Seager," today and once he goes on a hot streak I'll go back to arguing we should keep him... Rooting for Kyle probably more than any other player on this team. I want him to perform well enough to be a piece going forward. I really hope he kills it in the second half.

 

[seahawksfan234]

France hasn't impressed my at 2B because of his lack of range. He scares me at 3B because his arm is wild. But he has really come around at 1B and I have no problem sacrificing some power at the position for his bat.

You nailed the DH thought for me.

This brings up the question of if we should move Ty France to first and then what do we do with Evan White?

 

[NWinAZ]

I actually don't think I've seen him play at 3B so nothing stands out there to me. If he can play there, he would be a good replacement for Kyle Seager.

Not if we want to save runs. He showed the other night with one out in the 9th of a one run game how he throws. 10 feet short for a 2 base error that led to the tying run scoring with the next batter.

This brings up the question of if we should move Ty France to first and then what do we do with Evan White?

Evan White can't live off glove alone. And with all these injuries he has had, not sure he is a long term solution anyways. France at 1B makes the most sense.

 

[wazzu31]

I was mostly speaking to hit ability at the plate.

I've said this before, but it's not like he lacks the athleticism to play a position. They just need to find him a spot. Perhaps this is an old school line of thought but I feel like the DH position should be reserved for three types of players: (1) Players who can hit but you can't justify playing in the field (2) Vets who can still hit but you don't want to play in the field (see Nelson Cruz) and (3) Giving a position player a day off from fielding.

I don't really think France really fits into any of those categories.

Your premise I partially agree with. DH can be an actual position if the right guy is playing it. It is much like a closer, you have to have the right mental ability to be an everyday DH must like a closer. But it does generally comes with age and experience. But I agree with Zona where I for one will not be comfortable going into next year with France being penciled in at 3B or 2B. 1st from what I have seen is serviceable but White is the 1B unless he suddenly retires. If Jerry is open to the idea of someone other than White playing 1B I would personally like to see them work with Lewis and Haniger to see if they can possibly play that position. And if those two don’t work out then they need to have JRod start playing there. It isn’t necessarily about leaving a spot for JRod as opposed to all three of them have proven they are a play away from being out for the year, especially Lewis. That way you have 4 guys rotating between RF, 1B, DH and a PH. I mean they are doing it with pitching now why try some new age stuff for defense.

I just liked that France didn’t go into a mental tailspin as the DH when he struggled. That is the Achilles heel of inexperienced players playing there. Edgar and Ortiz both have stated that was the hardest adjustment. As a position player you can still help the team wins game on defense if you go into a slump.