Jones to start at RCB?!?

[returnofjakedog]

Looks like Tre Flowers is out and Sidney Jones is in at right CB!

Report: Sidney Jones set to play right cornerback against 49ers

As the Seattle Seahawks have stumbled to a 1-2 start to begin the 2021 NFL season, the scapegoat on a struggling defense for many fans has been right cornerback Tre Flowers. A 2018 draftee who...

www.fieldgulls.com

 

[Podunkparte]

Well he wasn't very good, at least to start the game, but it wasn't any worse than Flowers, so there's that!

 

[Screamin12th]

Well he wasn't very good, at least to start the game, but it wasn't any worse than Flowers, so there's that!

at least he was in peoples face other than his one mistake on the long TD. I think that might have a lot to do with Adams though as he just let him go and stuck out his hand pointing at him hoping Jones would fall off the inside guy. Thats a lot of pressure to put on someone that has yet to play much. Adams should have stayed with him. Also i believe after the play Adams knew it also as he didn't say much. The inside guy was farther in than Adams and would have had to cover a hell of a lot more ground to get onto that guy that Adams just let run past him.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

at least he was in peoples face other than his one mistake on the long TD. I think that might have a lot to do with Adams though as he just let him go and stuck out his hand pointing at him hoping Jones would fall off the inside guy. Thats a lot of pressure to put on someone that has yet to play much. Adams should have stayed with him. Also i believe after the play Adams knew it also as he didn't say much. The inside guy was farther in than Adams and would have had to cover a hell of a lot more ground to get onto that guy that Adams just let run past him.

Adams was in the right position and focusing on the zone he's in and flat/cross routes (and to ensure Lance doesn't take off which he can do).... he ASSUMED Jones was on him (which Jones should've been). He probably saw Lance's eyes track that direction and turned to watch the play... at that point the receiver was so far down the fuckin' field there's no way Jamal Adams is going to catch him, so he was screaming at Jones that he basically f'd up. I have no idea what was said.

Jones is young, and he's learning, but he did screw up... and Adams is pretty vocal to his D... always has been. That's what we traded for so I can't fault Adams for that. By the time Adams pointed nobody was catching/running him down. Not even DK.

Football is a well oiled machine.... plays are happening so quickly there's very little 'should've/would've/could've'. When receivers run wrong routes it results often in interceptions/sacks, etc. Same thing happened here. Adams is letting him know, "Ya f'd up... it's okay, don't do it next time. Go back and make sure you understand what we're doing out here."

 

[Screamin12th]

Adams was in the right position and focusing on the zone he's in and flat/cross routes (and to ensure Lance doesn't take off which he can do).... he ASSUMED Jones was on him (which Jones should've been). He probably saw Lance's eyes track that direction and turned to watch the play... at that point the receiver was so far down the fuckin' field there's no way Jamal Adams is going to catch him, so he was screaming at Jones that he basically f'd up. I have no idea what was said.

Jones is young, and he's learning, but he did screw up... and Adams is pretty vocal to his D... always has been. That's what we traded for so I can't fault Adams for that. By the time Adams pointed nobody was catching/running him down. Not even DK.

Football is a well oiled machine.... plays are happening so quickly there's very little 'should've/would've/could've'. When receivers run wrong routes it results often in interceptions/sacks, etc. Same thing happened here. Adams is letting him know, "Ya f'd up... it's okay, don't do it next time. Go back and make sure you understand what we're doing out here."

I was saying look at the play, Jones was so far inside that if he would have had to wheel out to the WR it would have forced him to cover more ground than Adams would have had to, had he just ran with him. I don't care how it was designed that's putting a lot of pressure on a player that might not understand all the calls yet. I play straight up right there and if I am dropping my guy like Adams did I signal it a lot sooner not when he is all ready running past me and Jones is following his read to the center and i doubt he ever saw Adams drop his guy till it was to late. Adams would have gave up the long pass anyway but maybe he tackles him.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I was saying look at the play, Jones was so far inside that if he would have had to wheel out to the WR it would have forced him to cover more ground than Adams would have had to, had he just ran with him. I don't care how it was designed that's putting a lot of pressure on a player that might not understand all the calls yet. I play straight up right there and if I am dropping my guy like Adams did I signal it a lot sooner not when he is all ready running past me and Jones is following his read to the center and i doubt he ever saw Adams drop his guy till it was to late. Adams would have gave up the long pass anyway but maybe he tackles him.

Baffling for sure.... and that's Norton's defense for ya....

 

[SonnyCID]

I thought he was really good. Gave up the early score and blew that coverage. But overall was physical and had a decent day.

 

[Screamin12th]

I thought he was really good. Gave up the early score and blew that coverage. But overall was physical and had a decent day.

Played better than flowers had thats for sure. At least he was on the TV screen on passes to his man lol. Would have liked to see Jimmy G play more as it would have been more of a test on the DB's. Also might have got another INT or 2 lol.

 

[Screamin12th]

Baffling for sure.... and that's Norton's defense for ya....

Why was Adams sitting down there anyway? there was no RB to cover to his side and he was so far outside, the two inside guys ran inside cutting patterns and Adams just sits down when there is no one to cover or guard in his area? nah I think someone made a mistake, Adams would have had ZERO purpose out there way out on the edge. You might as well just play 10 men if you are going to remove one of them like that. Nah Adams messed up but we will see if they blame Jones. If That is how it's designed then it's more than awful as you are basically playing 10 on 11 then.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Why was Adams sitting down there anyway? there was no RB to cover to his side and he was so far outside, the two inside guys ran inside cutting patterns and Adams just sits down when there is no one to cover or guard in his area? nah I think someone made a mistake, Adams would have had ZERO purpose out there way out on the edge. You might as well just play 10 men if you are going to remove one of them like that. Nah Adams messed up but we will see if they blame Jones. If That is how it's designed then it's more than awful as you are basically playing 10 on 11 then.

You don't know the routes the guys are going to run.... Adams was in zone where he was in the event Samuel cuts to a short out route or Kittle kept dragging across (which he was doing). Look at the clip again, Jones clearly was manning his initial guy when Seattle was running a zone which is why THREE Seattle players were basically 'covering' Jones' guy when Lance threw the ball. Diggs was already covering the zone Jones' guy was running to. All Jones had to do was drop straight back after initially tracking with Samuel... and he was not on the 'inside' when the play started, he was never supposed to man his guy to begin with.

The goal was Jones to drop back with Samuel and then maintain the post/high zone on the right in the event.... Samuel did exactly that (at which point yah if the throw is there ya gotta defend it). There's tons of zone plays where a defender is not covering anyone... the point of that is if you have pass pressure (which we don't) you can trap QBs into not seeing the zone and force picks. I have ZERO clue why Seattle was doing that... Seattle was doing fine with man coverage, but it is what it is.

Secondary NFL players before have said (inc. Sherman) that zone is complex and very diff. from "Just stay on this guy." If you abandon your zone holes develop. Nnamdi Asomugha was one of the best man coverage corners in the league with Oakland, went to Philly and they put him in a zone, and he and the secondary ROUTINELY got torched (for the same reasons). He wanted to man, but by doing so would leave WIDE open 'holes'.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

And last point, this is exactly what happened. Jones kept tracking his guy and that guy was running STRAIGHT into another zone (Diggs and someone else was underneath).... again it can be difficult for young or non-elite QBs to read. EVENTUALLY zones fall apart or VERY good QBs can pick them apart and identify em'.... It's a piece of cake to know, "Okay, my guy is being covered by this guy. If my guy can beat him great." You can't really 'beat' zone coverage until the QB sees or the WR finally identifies the zone and moves off it and breaks off the route. It's why zone is most effective with a decent base pass rush.

I guess Norton was thinking (lol) let's switch to zone because Lance is inexperienced and we can prob. confuse him and get an INT or fluster him with odd looks.

Zone for obvious reasons is harder to run than man. Seattle almost exclusively ran it with the LOB... difference was basically the entire secondary knew how to play it and the linebackers did as well... AND the front 4 was good.... that's why most teams couldn't do a fuckin' thing... nobody was out of place, it's a confusing look, and Seattle was so athletic the range of their zone was insane. Tampa did the same with the cover 2.... their pass rush was so fuckin' ridiculous and Brooks was so good, that trying to decipher whether they were cover 2 or 3 was difficult for a lot of QBs/offenses.

 

[Anointed One]

After watching Jones start - i'm convinced it's our scheme that allows DB's to be vulnerable...

 

[returnofjakedog]

After watching Jones start - i'm convinced it's our scheme that allows DB's to be vulnerable...

The pass rush is integral. Get consistent pressure and the DBs suddenly look a lot better. But if they can't get pressure and you play a zone, they will get picked apart by any QB worth his contract.

PC is very inflexible on changing his pass defense schemes. We don't have a prime Sherman shutting down an entire side of the field, or a S with the range and instincts of a peak Earl Thomas.

Jones struggled yesterday (yes, the blown Samuels' TD was his fault) but he had some good moments. At the least he should be an improvement over Flowers going forward.

 

[Screamin12th]

Jones was a improvement over Flowers, and I still don't think he was at fault. The left side only had a TE as the 49ers were in 21 personnel ( 2 RB 1 TE ) both RB released to the left, one stayed in to block left side while the FB went into the flat. Because there were no WR on that side the CB pushed inside before the snap and now is set to play zone on THAT side. The DE on that side now has to pay attention and drop into a zone if the RB release. That does not mean the other side of the defense is in Zone. At the Snap Both Wagner and Brooks attack the LoS with Brooks Dropping into mid coverage once the QB commits and Bobby sticking man to man with Kittle This signals Man to man with the fact they BOTH attacked the LoS first. Deebo in the slot Fakes like he is going to Block Adams putting his hands up in a blocking position. Adams who then reacts to possible play coming to his side thinking Deebo is a blocker calls for a switch Very Late, Deebo baited him. But by the time he calls for this switch the outside WR is all ready 10+ yards down field and Jones is running with him. Blair Crashes hard into the middle zone ( in zone he would NOT do this as this is Brooks area ) and would have instead played deep center shading over to the Side the WR's were on.

This offensive play looks to be designed to confuse the coverage and to trick overly aggressive players into making a mistake. Adams assumed someone was coming because Deebo faked him out with a "fake block" this then triggers Adams to signal the switch so he can now get around the blocker and create havoc on anything coming his way. Nothing and no one was heading into his zone and he was left on a island NEAR the Los with 15 yards between him and the next closes offensive player, The 49ers removed him completely from the play by setting him up. Instead of running after the play Adams immediately points at Jones the Second and i mean the SECOND it is released.

Seahawks players and coaches have stated many times over the years they would and do run zone on one side and man to man on the other depending on the formation and personnel and of course the defensive play call. Seattle's coaches got out coached on that play and the 49ers took advantage of stuff they had seen on tape, like any good coach would do. This is why they wont tell anyone what happened other than it was a mistake. It was a flawed design and got exposed as such.

 

[Mariners_44]

When the other team needs 5yds why do we continue to give receivers 10yds from our corners? It's easy pickens every third down, I dont care if you have Neon Deion on the corner, this massively soft coverage doesnt give us a chance.

 

[Screamin12th]

When the other team needs 5yds why do we continue to give receivers 10yds from our corners? It's easy pickens every third down, I dont care if you have Neon Deion on the corner, this massively soft coverage doesnt give us a chance.

Who knows, we been asking this same question for a couple years now. To be honest it's been around even when we had the LoB together. Browner played like that all the time so did Maxwell, they just didn't do it as much as now.

Just not sticky enough to play hip to hip I am sure.

 

[Screamin12th]

I am excited to see if Tre Brown can add a little something to this group, even if it's only slightly better it is still better. Who knows he also might give our Return game a shot in the arm.

***After I posted that I had to add an edit as it made me think of something. Why do our gunners SUCK ASS!?!?
God I miss Ricardo Lockette some times.