John (Mr Ed) Elway, what a......

[sonnyblack65]

Was Elway the greatest? No.

Was Elway one of the greats? Definitely one of the top 10 modern era, though some might discount that due to his atrocious SB stats, in fact Elway is experiencing what he suffered as a player, great regular season and a spiral down into the postseason, culminating in disasterous Super Bowl performances.

Did I like Elway as a fan? No. Hated him, one of the ultimate diva QBs. I will qualify that by allowing it was a genetic disorder.

I think he is better as a GM, it will be interesting to see how this latest episode plays out for him, and the Bronchos.

Every AFC QB would have atrocious no#s vs the NFC those first 3 SB;s esp vs SF who's D was only giving up like 7 points a game. He still took Denver to 5 SB's and there is only 1 other QB that has done that. Rodgers needs to get to another few to be mentioned in top 10 and Peyton is in top 10

 

[GNG]

Every AFC QB would have atrocious no#s vs the NFC those first 3 SB;s esp vs SF who's D was only giving up like 7 points a game. He still took Denver to 5 SB's and there is only 1 other QB that has done that. Rodgers needs to get to another few to be mentioned in top 10 and Peyton is in top 10

So in your opinion Jim Kelly is in the top 10 after taking Buffalo to four straight Super Bowls.

 

[sonnyblack65]

So in your opinion Jim Kelly is in the top 10 after taking Buffalo to four straight Super Bowls.

If he won 2 of those yes 0 wins no. Its just not just about Lombardis but also group of work. Marino is in my top 10 with 0 Lombardi's and Peyton is below avg in playoffs but games won, td's, yards, div titles, td/int ratio etc factor in

 

[flaraider]

Every AFC QB would have atrocious no#s vs the NFC those first 3 SB;s esp vs SF who's D was only giving up like 7 points a game. He still took Denver to 5 SB's and there is only 1 other QB that has done that. Rodgers needs to get to another few to be mentioned in top 10 and Peyton is in top 10

Drawing that fine line between good and greatness, Elway had the best measurables, but got beat by guys with less physical talent, I think it is debatable.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Personally, I have no interest in all-time rankings. There is obviously no reliable way of ranking how great players were or are. To say that Elway was merely an "average" player, however, strikes me as exceedingly ignorant.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Drawing that fine line between good and greatness, Elway had the best measurables, but got beat by guys with less physical talent, I think it is debatable.

Sure its debateable. Most including myself have Montana as Goat and if Brady had won those 2 other SB's and better no#s all the way around, I think most would have him. Older people will have the Otto Grahams, Bart Stars, Johnny U so its all subjective. Elway did make some great comebacks, hell of an arm and very mobile

 

[wingsauce7]

Every SB winning team has multiple great players.

I'll ask again, who did Denver have with Elway during their first 3 Superbowls?

 

[GNG]

If he won 2 of those yes 0 wins no. Its just not just about Lombardis but also group of work. Marino is in my top 10 with 0 Lombardi's and Peyton is below avg in playoffs but games won, td's, yards, div titles, td/int ratio etc factor in

Marino went to one Super Bowl but never won any yet he is in your top 10 and Kelly went to four. You have a strange rating system for QB's.

 

[GNG]

Personally, I have no interest in all-time rankings. There is obviously no reliable way of ranking how great players were or are. To say that Elway was merely an "average" player, however, strikes me as exceedingly ignorant.

Elway was a top 10 QB in my book.

 

[GNG]

Sure its debateable. Most including myself have Montana as Goat and if Brady had won those 2 other SB's and better no#s all the way around, I think most would have him. Older people will have the Otto Grahams, Bart Stars, Johnny U so its all subjective. Elway did make some great comebacks, hell of an arm and very mobile

Great teams win Super Bowls but great QB's have great stats according to many.

 

[Ricky Roma]

As I stated, I believe Elway to be both a legit HOF QB and an overrated/overhyped player as well. There's no doubt as to his talent, his ability and achievements in the NFL, and every team would be lucky to have a guy like him. However, the problem I have with Elway is that a lot of his legend is media driven.

He was one of the first true superstars in the NFL of the ESPN era. Granted he was a can't-miss prospect. Second were the 'comeback' stats that originated out of some Bronco PR office.....a lot of those comebacks were because Elway put them down by his poor play, or the massive advantage Denver gets at Mile High. Funny thing is, for a long time he was regarded as the 'all time leader' in comebacks when in fact, Dan Marino held the record all along. Another aspect is that 'Elway took those Broncos to 3 Super Bowls alone' in the 1980's. By the mid 1980's, the AFC was a joke, so....somebody had to go. It's no surprise that Denver got pounded worse with each trip, and there is zero chance if Denver was in the NFC, they make any Super Bowl runs.

He had some faults - lack of touch for the longest time, forcing balls through triple coverage, par pre-snap reads, but I'd still take a guy like him in a second for my team.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Marino went to one Super Bowl but never won any yet he is in your top 10 and Kelly went to four. You have a strange rating system for QB's.

Marino was a better QB than Kelly and so was Elway. The championships put Elway in top 5 for me and Marino with 0 still in top 10. You put Marino in with Thurman Thomas, Andree Reed, Tasker,Bruce Smith etc and he prob beats Giants. I went to the first 3 Bills SB's and watched first hand. I love Jim Kelly but top 30 QB's

 

[TDs3nOut]

Elway was a top 10 QB in my book.

I know that many agree with that. That's why I don't get why so many fans call him "overrated" or even "average". Guess it's because of those blowout losses in the SB to NYG, Washington, and SF, while overlooking how Elway played in order to even lead his team to those SBs.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Every SB winning team has multiple great players.

I'll ask again, who did Denver have with Elway during their first 3 Superbowls?

He obviously had enough talent that when Denver's defense was ranked in the top 10 from 1986-1989, they went to the Super Bowl. The one year they went 8-8, the defense was ranked 22. I stress that he had enough talent to get this done....in the AFC, when that conference was a joke at the time.

 

[TDs3nOut]

As I stated, I believe Elway to be both a legit HOF QB and an overrated/overhyped player as well. There's no doubt as to his talent, his ability and achievements in the NFL, and every team would be lucky to have a guy like him. However, the problem I have with Elway is that a lot of his legend is media driven.

He was one of the first true superstars in the NFL of the ESPN era. Granted he was a can't-miss prospect. Second were the 'comeback' stats that originated out of some Bronco PR office.....a lot of those comebacks were because Elway put them down by his poor play, or the massive advantage Denver gets at Mile High. Funny thing is, for a long time he was regarded as the 'all time leader' in comebacks when in fact, Dan Marino held the record all along. Another aspect is that 'Elway took those Broncos to 3 Super Bowls alone' in the 1980's. By the mid 1980's, the AFC was a joke, so....somebody had to go. It's no surprise that Denver got pounded worse with each trip, and there is zero chance if Denver was in the NFC, they make any Super Bowl runs.

He had some faults - lack of touch for the longest time, forcing balls through triple coverage, par pre-snap reads, but I'd still take a guy like him in a second for my team.

You raise some fair points.

 

[wingsauce7]

Mile High Stadium has no greater advantage for Denver than Seattle at home, GB playing home in the cold or domed teams playing outdoors teams.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Mile High Stadium has no greater advantage for Denver than Seattle at home, GB playing home in the cold or domed teams playing outdoors teams.

The altitude, where opposing players are not as adjusted as the home team, most certainly makes it an advantage for Denver - an advantage no other team can claim.

 

[cdumler7]

The altitude, where opposing players are not as adjusted as the home team, most certainly makes it an advantage for Denver - an advantage no other team can claim.

Stupidest argument...We could do this for a lot of stadiums across the NFL of what advantage they have compared to others. Green Bay offers the coldest stadium in the NFL, Chicago has the windiest stadium, and so on. We have a certain advantage that works to our favor...so what so do a lot of teams.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Stupidest argument...We could do this for a lot of stadiums across the NFL of what advantage they have compared to others. Green Bay offers the coldest stadium in the NFL, Chicago has the windiest stadium, and so on. We have a certain advantage that works to our favor...so what so do a lot of teams.

Where did I say that other teams had no home field advantage? I simply stated that Denver had an absolute unique home field advantage, the altitude, that no other team has. It's a fact. That, and that old mile high was a loud, cold environment, etc. etc. It obviously made for a much better home field advantage than most every other team in the NFL.

 

[cdumler7]

Where did I say that other teams had no home field advantage? I simply stated that Denver had an absolute unique home field advantage, the altitude, that no other team has. It's a fact. That, and that old mile high was a loud, cold environment, etc. etc. It obviously made for a much better home field advantage than most every other team in the NFL.

Like you said though other stadiums have a unique home field advantage for them as well so what is the big deal of the Broncos having Altitude? Heck they have interviewed players in the past that have said it wasn't completely overblown how much the altitude effects them. Don't get me wrong I love the Broncos home field advantage but you seem to be acting like we have this huge advantage over any other team that has home field in the NFL and to me that is just not the case. Heck I would trade the Broncos home field for that of Seattle right now. The stadium design is incredible.