I'm going to be honest about Seattle

[flyerhawk]

. There is the difference. BB and Scar find linemen that can play. If we were talking DB that'd be a whole different story.

And this is the entire point. Tom Cable was given discretion on who he wanted on the OL. While I'm sure he would have preferred that he had more high round picks, it's not like he didn't have any.

James Carpenter was lackluster with the Seahawks and left because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. He went off to the Jets to be adequate player there. Sweezy got paid a ridiculous amount of money to suck with the Bucs. Okung couldn't stay healthy. Giacomini was probably the only one I really miss at all and he was infuriating with the needless discipline penalties.

When it is all said and done, either Tom Cable drafted the wrong guys, wasn't able to coach the guys or PC/JS forced him to do things he didn't want to do. You want to go with option 3 because that suits your purposes. But that doesn't mean it is true.

 

[Racer8825]

And this is the entire point. Tom Cable was given discretion on who he wanted on the OL. While I'm sure he would have preferred that he had more high round picks, it's not like he didn't have any.

James Carpenter was lackluster with the Seahawks and left because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. He went off to the Jets to be adequate player there. Sweezy got paid a ridiculous amount of money to suck with the Bucs. Okung couldn't stay healthy. Giacomini was probably the only one I really miss at all and he was infuriating with the needless discipline penalties.

When it is all said and done, either Tom Cable drafted the wrong guys, wasn't able to coach the guys or PC/JS forced him to do things he didn't want to do. You want to go with option 3 because that suits your purposes. But that doesn't mean it is true.

Careful he might start calling you sensitive too even though you've been able to back your points up just like I've been able to.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Chiefs OL Drafting since 2010

1st: 1
2nd: 3
3rd: 2
4th: 1
5th: 0
6th: 4
7th: 0

Eric Fisher

Jeff Allen, Mitch Morse, Rodney Hudson

Donald Stephenson, Jon Asamaoh

Parker Ehinger

Tardif, Fulton, Kush, McKenzie

That's not a bad haul, especially when you factor in comp picks. A couple of these guys like Allen and Asamoah played their best ball with the Chiefs. Only true busts are probably Kush and Stephenson.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Sounds to me like it's working out pretty well for you.

Not bad in terms of cap, that's for sure. They've done a pretty admirable job with the OL even if it has never been elite, imo. Now some other positions they've gotten real weird and that's why they are where they are with the cap. They could've been in real bad shape if they overpaid every halfway decent OL to perform for them like I have mentioned, however.

Back to the point however, Seattle shouldn't be overpaying guys like Sweazey or however you spell his name.

 

[Racer8825]

Not bad in terms of cap, that's for sure. They've done a pretty admirable job with the OL even if it has never been elite, imo. Now some other positions they've gotten real weird and that's why they are where they are with the cap. They could've been in real bad shape if they overpaid every halfway decent OL to perform for them like I have mentioned, however.

Yeah you don't need a stout OL to be successful you just need right coach to get the very best out of them. I've mentioned this numerous times now.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Chiefs OL Drafting since 2010

1st: 1
2nd: 3
3rd: 2
4th: 1
5th: 0
6th: 4
7th: 0

Eric Fisher

Jeff Allen, Mitch Morse, Rodney Hudson

Donald Stephenson, Jon Asamaoh

Parker Ehinger

Tardif, Fulton, Kush, McKenzie

That's not a bad haul, especially when you factor in comp picks. A couple of these guys like Allen and Asamoah played their best ball with the Chiefs. Only true busts are probably Kush and Stephenson.

By my count, that's 2 OT's, 4 Centers, 4 Guards

*They did trade a 5th for Cam Erving to be a Swing OT for some weird reason

 

[JMR]

I think it's waaaaay too early to cut the cord with Ifedi yet. His disposition and physical tools are what are wanted. Probably just needs to have things slow down for him.

I think after year 3 if he shows no improvement, he'll run a chance of being gone by final roster cuts of '19. I am not suggesting he's in jeopardy of losing a roster spot in this year's camp. He really needs to make a leap this year, IMO.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

And this is the entire point. Tom Cable was given discretion on who he wanted on the OL. While I'm sure he would have preferred that he had more high round picks, it's not like he didn't have any.

James Carpenter was lackluster with the Seahawks and left because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. He went off to the Jets to be adequate player there. Sweezy got paid a ridiculous amount of money to suck with the Bucs. Okung couldn't stay healthy. Giacomini was probably the only one I really miss at all and he was infuriating with the needless discipline penalties.

When it is all said and done, either Tom Cable drafted the wrong guys, wasn't able to coach the guys or PC/JS forced him to do things he didn't want to do. You want to go with option 3 because that suits your purposes. But that doesn't mean it is true.

PC and JS are overall responsible. Stop blaming Cable is my point. None of know for sure how much influence he was allowed?

Hindsight would say most fans would like to have all the players you listed back. Collectively they are better then what Seattle has had for the past few seasons. They also had some longevity.

Cable is no Scar. But then again no one is. Let's wait and see how Cable protects Carr and how the Raider running game is this season. at the same time we can watch the new regime in Seattle.

 

[JMR]

Tom Cable was given complete control of the line for 7 years. It got worse and worse under his tenure.

It also became clear at the end that he was in charge of the whole running game as well, which has been a complete eyesore the past 2 seasons. I absolutely think Alex Collins not being anything worth noting in Seattle and then immediately making an impact in Balt is an indictment on everything Cable was doing with the Hawks.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Careful he might start calling you sensitive too even though you've been able to back your points up just like I've been able to.

Need a tissue?

 

[Racer8825]

Need a tissue?

No I'm good. Thank you.

 

[chf]

I think after year 3 if he shows no improvement, he'll run a chance of being gone by final roster cuts of '19. I am not suggesting he's in jeopardy of losing a roster spot in this year's camp. He really needs to make a leap this year, IMO.

That's fair. No improvement (or regression) this season, then yeah, you have to start to think... bust.

 

[chf]

Hindsight would say most fans would like to have all the players you listed back. Collectively they are better then what Seattle has had for the past few seasons. They also had some longevity.

C'mon now. If you worship at the altar of Beli, you HAVE to understand about not overpaying for veterans who become FA's.

In 'hindsight' do we want Carpenter and Breno and Sweezy back AT WHAT THEY GOT PAID IN FA?

No fucking way. Every day, including Sunday.

Because we would have lost a couple of Bennett, Avril, Sherman, Wagner, Thomas a couple of seasons sooner.

 

[Jikkle]

Wilson makes it tougher to critique the offensive line because his style of play puts a lot of pressure on the offensive line.

Yea we oh and ah when he scrambles for 10 seconds and hits a 50+ yarder but for the offensive line it's a nightmare to block for a QB that you don't know exactly where he'll be and how long he'll hold on to the ball for.

Naturally, I'm not suggesting Wilson is to blame for the offensive line's shoddy play because it's just not a good group offensive linemen but a QB with a quick release and that lets it rip at the end of his drop would make the offensive line look better.

 

[cdumler7]

Wilson makes it tougher to critique the offensive line because his style of play puts a lot of pressure on the offensive line.

Yea we oh and ah when he scrambles for 10 seconds and hits a 50+ yarder but for the offensive line it's a nightmare to block for a QB that you don't know exactly where he'll be and how long he'll hold on to the ball for.

Naturally, I'm not suggesting Wilson is to blame for the offensive line's shoddy play because it's just not a good group offensive linemen but a QB with a quick release and that lets it rip at the end of his drop would make the offensive line look better.

Both pieces definitely have to work in sync. Brady and Manning are two of the best at making their OL look good when in reality the quality is probably closer to subpar. I've watched plenty of Seattle games though where players were pretty much untouched as they went straight for Wilson. I would put more blame on the OL than I ever would Wilson and his scrambling.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

C'mon now. If you worship at the altar of Beli, you HAVE to understand about not overpaying for veterans who become FA's.

In 'hindsight' do we want Carpenter and Breno and Sweezy back AT WHAT THEY GOT PAID IN FA?

No fucking way. Every day, including Sunday.

Because we would have lost a couple of Bennett, Avril, Sherman, Wagner, Thomas a couple of seasons sooner.

And there in lies my point. Money was spent on the D. Seattle tried to use a band aid to fix the Oline. There needs to be less of a discrepancy between both sides of the ball.
Between injuries, loss of players thru FA/attrition and less then adequate drafting Cable was given a shit sandwich and expected to make a chateaubriand.

 

[Racer8825]

C'mon now. If you worship at the altar of Beli, you HAVE to understand about not overpaying for veterans who become FA's.

In 'hindsight' do we want Carpenter and Breno and Sweezy back AT WHAT THEY GOT PAID IN FA?

No fucking way. Every day, including Sunday.

Because we would have lost a couple of Bennett, Avril, Sherman, Wagner, Thomas a couple of seasons sooner.

I just don't think he gets it.

 

[JMR]

Wilson makes it tougher to critique the offensive line because his style of play puts a lot of pressure on the offensive line.

Yea we oh and ah when he scrambles for 10 seconds and hits a 50+ yarder but for the offensive line it's a nightmare to block for a QB that you don't know exactly where he'll be and how long he'll hold on to the ball for.

Naturally, I'm not suggesting Wilson is to blame for the offensive line's shoddy play because it's just not a good group offensive linemen but a QB with a quick release and that lets it rip at the end of his drop would make the offensive line look better.

Ok, I can agree with that to an extent, but that doesnt begin to explain the troubles with the running game the past 2 seasons. And it's nothing to do with Marshawn Lynch, either. Plenty of teams out there are capable running offenses without having a bubble HOFer carrying the ball. Seattle's running attack was historically bad last season, and that is not the least bit blamed on RW's scrambling.

 

[flyerhawk]

PC and JS are overall responsible. Stop blaming Cable is my point. None of know for sure how much influence he was allowed?

Well all we can do is go on what Pete Carroll has said for the entire time that Cable has been there. Perhaps he was lying the whole time and he told Cable what to do. Seems to fly in the face of how he operates but anything is possible.

Hindsight would say most fans would like to have all the players you listed back. Collectively they are better then what Seattle has had for the past few seasons. They also had some longevity.

Sure. I'm sure we would love to keep everyone that has value.

Cable is no Scar. But then again no one is. Let's wait and see how Cable protects Carr and how the Raider running game is this season. at the same time we can watch the new regime in Seattle.

The Raiders had one of the best OLs in football 2 years ago. It was really good last year. If it sucks next year then I would say that Cable failed. But that isn't likely to happen. He isn't incompetent.

Yes we will see what the new regime will do this year. It is an unknown. As is the new OC. Which is why I listed them in my post as question marks.

Happy to see that you are being more even in your comments now.

 

[chf]

And there in lies my point. Money was spent on the D. Seattle tried to use a band aid to fix the Oline. There needs to be less of a discrepancy between both sides of the ball.
Between injuries, loss of players thru FA/attrition and less then adequate drafting Cable was given a shit sandwich and expected to make a chateaubriand.

Exactly what I argued in countless threads on the Seattle boards. They made a decision on what was special about that team, and what gave them the best chance of continuing their success. In the short term that was the D.

In the long term, with Wilson, the answer was going to be different.

What Seattle is doing now is the transition from one era to another.

The only real difference in our take on it, is how 'rocky' that transition is going to be.

I'm choosing to be optimistic. For some reason, you have a huge need to excoriate anyone similarly optimistic.