I Knew It

[Eddie_Shack]

Recent Red Wings say '97 team would beat '02 version - NHL - Sporting News

But two guys who played on that team say that wasn’t even the best version of the modern Red Wings, who won the Stanley Cup in 1997, 1998, 2002 and 2007. “I would say 2002 was deeper, maybe had more talent,” says Shanahan. “But ’97 was just meaner, tougher, might have kicked the (expletive) out of ’02.”

I guess I don't remember them winning in '07, but I'll take their word for it.

1946-47 Toronto Maple Leafs - NHL's 10 Greatest Teams - 125th Anniversary - Sporting News


I agree with Shanny though, the '96-'97 Red Wings were one of the best playoff teams I've ever seen in my life. Joey Freaking Kocur was scoring goals. That team had the best overall mix of depth, high end skill, defense, clutch scoring, grit, and toughness out of any Cup winner in the last 20 years (IMO).

The Ducks had a lot of those same attributes, but I would take Fetisov and Murphy as 3-4 defensemen over Beauchimen and... uhhh... Sean O'Donnel? Or something. The Ducks had a great top six that year, but Detroit had more depth up front. Also, Fedorov, Yzerman, Shanahan > Selanne, Getzlaf, Perry.

The '02 Wings had some tremendous names and skill, and could stack up against any team, EVER, on the talent front. But '97 was a finely tuned, densely packed wrecking ball of destruction. Yzerman, Shanahan, the Grind Line, and Lidstrom were all younger and hungrier. Bowman was a bigger dick with a sharper edge, and let's not forget Konstantinov. Was he a filthy player? Yup. But he was also one of the best, most complete players of his era. Shanahan once said "Before I came to the Red Wings, I used to think Vlad was a borderline dirty player. Now that I've played WITH him, I KNOW he's a dirty player". He was one sneaky SOB, but incredibly smart and talented.


What do you guys think of SN's list? And who would you take in a seven game series, the '97 Wings or the '02 Wings?

 

[awaz]

i hate the '97 wings

 

[The Croz Man Cometh]

The 92-93 Pens were a hell of a lot better than the 91-92 that they have listed. They just didn't win the cup that year. So, I vote this list sucks and could have been better.

NHL.com did a playoff format years ago to see who was the best team ever, and if memory serves correct, it was the 83-84 Oilers vs 92-93 Pens, and the 76-77 Habs vs 01-02 Wings (Not sure about the Wings) with the Habs winning over the Oilers.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

The 92-93 Pens were a hell of a lot better than the 91-92 that they have listed. They just didn't win the cup that year. So, I vote this list sucks and could have been better.

NHL.com did a playoff format years ago to see who was the best team ever, and if memory serves correct, it was the 83-84 Oilers vs 92-93 Pens, and the 76-77 Habs vs 01-02 Wings (Not sure about the Wings) with the Habs winning over the Oilers.

How did they figure it? Was it a statistical formula, or did players/media vote?

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Hard not to pick that '76-'77 Habs team as number 1 when you put their regular season and PO performance together.

I probably would go with the '02 Wings team because the article doesn't seem to be only about the POs. POs only, it probably goes to '97, but when you factor in the regular season, '02 was much better.

 

[beantownmaniac]

71-72 Bruins>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All

 

[Automattic]

For me it's so close (97 vs 02) that it depends on the mood I'm in.

One thing I would like to mention is that Lucky Luc never gets enough credit.

 

[The Croz Man Cometh]

How did they figure it? Was it a statistical formula, or did players/media vote?

I can't remember what site it was that did it, but NHL.com used said site to do up a simulated series to play out the best team. It was pretty cool to follow. It was over the course of a few weeks.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Still don't understand the love for the 2001-02 Red Wings over the 1996-97 Red Wings, 1997-98 Red Wings, 2000-01 Avalanche, 2006-07 Ducks, 1998-99 Stars, or Robinson's 1999-2000 Devils. Mitch Albom writes one article...


And Eddie, I like Fetisov and Murphy (especially), too, but Beauchemin and O'Donnell were split between Niedermayer and Pronger (and Beauchemin was a beast), so the only defensive vulnerability came during the four minutes of DiPenta and Huskins being out at the same time. Say what you want about the top six, but the Ducks rolled their third line (Moen, Pahlsson, Niedermayer) as hard as their first and second, and they were scoring too.

Oh... and Giguere over Vernon all day. :p


1952 Red Wings, 1960 Canadiens, 1970 Bruins, 1975 Flyers, 1977 Canadiens, 1987 Oilers, 1997 Red Wings, 2001 Avalanche, 2007 Ducks, and the mother-fucking 2005 London Knights. That's my ten.

 

[quoipourquoi]

One thing I would like to mention is that Lucky Luc never gets enough credit.

Fucking A, he doesn't. With 10 guys loaded for bear, you can't be surprised when, statistically, some don't bring home more than a few chickens.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Hard not to pick that '76-'77 Habs team as number 1 when you put their regular season and PO performance together.

I probably would go with the '02 Wings team because the article doesn't seem to be only about the POs. POs only, it probably goes to '97, but when you factor in the regular season, '02 was much better.

This..... The 76 77 Habs went 60-8 12 in the regular season and 12-2 in the playoffs. They led the league in goals scored and least goals allowed. IMO they were the best team of all time. Scoring, great defense and goaltending. They get my vote.

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Homer Pick, but I'd feel confident putting the 99-00 Devils against anybody. Keep in mind the Devils were 2nd in the league in scoring that season, not the dump and chase/trap Devils. The A-Line (Sykora,Arnott,Elias) was the best in hockey for 2 years, Add Gomez and Mogilny to the mix, along with Holik, Madden and the underrated for years Pandolfo playing the shutdown roles. Then you have 2 HOF Dmen (Stevens/Nieds), Daneyko and Raflaski rounding out the top 4 and Brodeur in his prime.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

This..... The 76 77 Habs went 60-8 12 in the regular season and 12-2 in the playoffs. They led the league in goals scored and least goals allowed. IMO they were the best team of all time. Scoring, great defense and goaltending. They get my vote.

Absolutely Boss. What a team. The original big three on defense dominated from the blueline like no other group has ever done.

 

[Automattic]

Fucking A, he doesn't. With 10 guys loaded for bear, you can't be surprised when, statistically, some don't bring home more than a few chickens.

I'm talking out of all the storylines surrounding Detroit that summer, such as Bowman leaving, Lidstrom's Conn Smythe, The Dominator, Larionov's heroics, Brett Hull hogging the camera, Dan Cloutier's demise....

 

[quoipourquoi]

I'm talking out of all the storylines surrounding Detroit that summer, such as Bowman leaving, Lidstrom's Conn Smythe, The Dominator, Larionov's heroics, Brett Hull hogging the camera, Dan Cloutier's demise....

I remember one of his goals from Game 3 against the Avs- Wings are down 1-0, need one to tie it - the puck hits Roy, bounces up, Greg de Vries swipes at it to get it out of harms way, and the damn thing hits Luc Robitaille's skate and goes in to tie the game. Wings win in overtime. Lucky bastard. :p

 

[Automattic]

I remember one of his goals from Game 3 against the Avs- Wings are down 1-0, need one to tie it - the puck hits Roy, bounces up, Greg de Vries swipes at it to get it out of harms way, and the damn thing hits Luc Robitaille's skate and goes in to tie the game. Wings win in overtime. Lucky bastard. :p

...and I hope that kind of luck is on the stick of Modano this year...

 

[Eddie_Shack]

And Eddie, I like Fetisov and Murphy (especially), too, but Beauchemin and O'Donnell were split between Niedermayer and Pronger (and Beauchemin was a beast), so the only defensive vulnerability came during the four minutes of DiPenta and Huskins being out at the same time. Say what you want about the top six, but the Ducks rolled their third line (Moen, Pahlsson, Niedermayer) as hard as their first and second, and they were scoring too.

Oh... and Giguere over Vernon all day. :p

Fair point. If you want to talk top four, it's a pretty damn close call. Lidstrom-Murphy and Konstantinov-Fetisov vs Pronger-O'Donnell and Niedermayer-Beauchemin is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I'd still take whatever the Wings were calling their third line over the Pahlsson trio, although Pahlsson was a defensive BEAST, that whole line was a shutdown machine. However, if I recall (Bowman's line juggling was ridiculous) the Wings usually rolled

Kozlov-Fedorov-Brownov
Shanahan-Larionov-Lapointe
Holmstrom-Yzerman-McCarty
Maltby-Draper-Kocur

I'm taking that group any day of the week. Rouse and whatever goon he was paired with vs Huskins and Dipenta was probably a draw, although I'm guessing Rouse got more ice time in the playoffs than Huskins and Dipenta combined, lol.

'03 Giggy > almost any other goalie ever.

Vernon's Conn Smythe > '07 Giggy

 

[Destroydacre]

Still don't understand the love for the 2001-02 Red Wings over the 1996-97 Red Wings, 1997-98 Red Wings, 2000-01 Avalanche, 2006-07 Ducks, 1998-99 Stars, or Robinson's 1999-2000 Devils. Mitch Albom writes one article...


And Eddie, I like Fetisov and Murphy (especially), too, but Beauchemin and O'Donnell were split between Niedermayer and Pronger (and Beauchemin was a beast), so the only defensive vulnerability came during the four minutes of DiPenta and Huskins being out at the same time. Say what you want about the top six, but the Ducks rolled their third line (Moen, Pahlsson, Niedermayer) as hard as their first and second, and they were scoring too.

Oh... and Giguere over Vernon all day. :p


1952 Red Wings, 1960 Canadiens, 1970 Bruins, 1975 Flyers, 1977 Canadiens, 1987 Oilers, 1997 Red Wings, 2001 Avalanche, 2007 Ducks, and the mother-fucking 2005 London Knights. That's my ten.

I'd argue that the 2000-01 Devils were the best Devils team of all time, despite the fact they lost the SCF. I think that team gets overlooked a lot because they didn't win it all.

 

[Automattic]

Fair point. If you want to talk top four, it's a pretty damn close call. Lidstrom-Murphy and Konstantinov-Fetisov vs Pronger-O'Donnell and Niedermayer-Beauchemin is six of one, half a dozen of the other. I'd still take whatever the Wings were calling their third line over the Pahlsson trio, although Pahlsson was a defensive BEAST, that whole line was a shutdown machine. However, if I recall (Bowman's line juggling was ridiculous) the Wings usually rolled

Kozlov-Fedorov-Brownov
Shanahan-Larionov-Lapointe
Holmstrom-Yzerman-McCarty
Maltby-Draper-Kocur

I'm taking that group any day of the week. Rouse and whatever goon he was paired with vs Huskins and Dipenta was probably a draw, although I'm guessing Rouse got more ice time in the playoffs than Huskins and Dipenta combined, lol.

'03 Giggy > almost any other goalie ever.

Vernon's Conn Smythe > '07 Giggy

MOTHERFUCKIN' BROWNOV!



/that's a rep coming.