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I Found Something Dumber than the Marcus Peters Trade

Fountain City Blues

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Some folks feel insurance is waste of money, especially if they pay for but don’t use

They already had insurance I'd argue. They just bought a cadillac package without any additional coverage.

I contend that drafting a QB then trying to groom him for a few years only to find he’s not the QB they were hoping for sets a team back and waste the talent they do have, Bortles could be a example, but feel Paxton is a better example.
There is no guarantee that the Jags could move up and grab a QB of their choice without paying so dearly that it won’t make sense. Which is one more reason to sign Bortles.
Yes, but I'd argue the reward is so high for the Jags that they have to put their chips in now. If not now, when? Fear of drafting a bust is not a reason to avoid drafting QB's in it of itself. They need to take their chance now to win a SB, not let their hopes rest on the arm of Bortles.

Evaluating college QBs is not as easy as fans believe.
Definitely is not easy. I went on a limb for Kizer and that went badly his rookie year.

Bortles was signed cheap
Yes, but dirt is cheaper than cheap.
 

Fountain City Blues

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While I agree "marrying" yourself to Bortles for 3 years isn't ideal... But crippling your team in the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes is an even worse decision IMO.
In the short term, it may be better to capitalize on the window and go for the SB than not, but looking at OTC it's tough to see how signing Cousins doesn't burn away a chunk of what made that roster great to begin with which puts them in quite the quandary.
 

HaroldSeattle

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They already had insurance I'd argue. They just bought a cadillac package without any additional coverage.

They had short term insurance now they have long term insurance that they can cancel if things work out. Smart.


Yes, but I'd argue the reward is so high for the Jags that they have to put their chips in now. If not now, when? Fear of drafting a bust is not a reason to avoid drafting QB's in it of itself. They need to take their chance now to win a SB, not let their hopes rest on the arm of Bortles.

I think they will do there best in the draft to find their next QB, but given their draft spot not banking on being able to land the QB they want.
 

Iggloo

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From what I have read about this, this is maybe not as bad as people think. They painted themselves into a corner with Bortles and either were going to have to pay him $19 million for a year to play under his current one-year option, sign him to a deal like this, or start anew with another QB.

They wound up taking option 2, and guaranteeing him $26 million over three years, $54 million overall, instead of the $19 million this year.

You can argue that option 3 was the right option, and I won't disagree. But this is a team that just made it to the AFC title game and probably thinks it can win a ring with Blake Bortles if it just improves elsewhere. This contract makes that possible, potentially anyway.
 

Clayton

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Some of you consistently underestimate the dearth of NFL QB talent.
Backup QBs like Bortles are a dime a dozen.

I'm going on the flip side and saying that giving a different QB a second chance is better than giving the same one too many chances.
 

Dude

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Never have understood the piling on of Bortles around here.


Like it's cool to think he blows or something.


Buncha Chris Simms wannabes....
I’m with you on this. Seems par for the course in hooplaland. Somebody serves up a narrative based on impulse, with little or no facts, people gobble it up and it gains traction.
 

Clayton

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While I agree "marrying" yourself to Bortles for 3 years isn't ideal... But crippling your team in the Kirk Cousins sweepstakes is an even worse decision IMO.
Maybe.

We've certainly seen what happened to the Ravens with Flacco and I think that is a cautionary tale for teams. I think Cousins is better than that and I think going short-term with Bortles is better than that but I do kinda wonder if the Jaguars are going to miss their window in those 3 years. Bortles is just good enough to keep them out of franchise QB territory but not good enough to win a Super Bowl unless the Jags bring the best defense in NFL history.
 

Fountain City Blues

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I've seen BB run out the clock at the end of the 1st half before. I don't love it... but I think it was an appropriate move.

With 55 seconds to go? That's hard for me to believe.

It would appear as though you're really searching out for something to confirm your beliefs

¿Que? Nunca.

In reality, Bortles had a solid year. Not good, but certainly not bad either
I think you're overly relying on the output (stats) there. The same mechanics, the same subsequent accuracy problems, and the decisionmaking issues are still there when presented a read or throw of much difficulty. The 2nd half vs 1st half is a pretty good example of this.

List of QB's I'd take over Bortles

  1. Tom Brady
  2. Tyrod Taylor
  3. Ryan Tannehill
  4. Jay Cutler
  5. Matt Moore
  6. Ben Roethlisberger
  7. Joe Flacco
  8. Andy Dalton
  9. AJ McCarron
  10. Patrick Mahomes II
  11. Phillip Rivers
  12. Derek Carr
  13. Andrew Luck
  14. Jacoby Brissett
  15. DeShaun Watson
  16. Marcus Mariota
  17. Eli Manning
  18. Carson Wentz
  19. Nick Foles
  20. Alex Smith
  21. Dak Prescott
  22. Teddy Bridgewater
  23. Case Keenum
  24. Sam Bradford
  25. Aaron Rodgers
  26. Mitchell Trubisky
  27. Matthew Stafford
  28. Jared Goff
  29. Russell Wilson
  30. Jimmy Garroppolo
  31. Cam Newton
  32. Drew Brees
  33. Jameis Winston
  34. Matt Ryan
  35. Lamar Jackson
  36. Mason Rudolph
  37. Josh Rosen
  38. Baker Mayfield
  39. Sam Darnold
  40. Kirk Cousins
When Fournette was hobbled and struggled the last part of the year.

The correlation for running related to winning is pathetically weak, and the difference between running RB to RB marginal at best. This is also a sub 4 YPC back circumstance or not who isn't much of a receiver. Can't say I put any stock into this. It's not that Bortles has never played well, but he is quite usually terrible. After a season where most everything went right for the Jags, what happens when not everything goes their way? My guess is 8-8 as of right now.

Bortles AAV right now is 18M before incentives. For perspective, DeMarcus Lawrence, an elite passrusher, wants 17M AAV. Bortles is a fringe top 40 QB. Why invest that money into Bortles over 3 years? What's more disturbing is we could see this coming from a mile away with the owner's comments on Bortles; the benefit of the doubt should not be given to the Jags.

None of the big QB prospects will be there at the end of the 1st

We will see what happens with Lamar Jackson, but this should not be an excuse. Now that Smith and realistically Cousins are off the table, they should trade up to get their guy. If that means Lamar Jackson so be it. At minimum they need to get out of this draft with a credible QB prospect.

They most likely just don't like the ones that will be there
Maybe, but based on Allbright's tweets, this doesn't appear very likely. The QB search continues while serving two masters.

Bortles showed some good things this past year.
As a backup.
 

FaCe-LeE-uS

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Maybe.

We've certainly seen what happened to the Ravens with Flacco and I think that is a cautionary tale for teams. I think Cousins is better than that and I think going short-term with Bortles is better than that but I do kinda wonder if the Jaguars are going to miss their window in those 3 years. Bortles is just good enough to keep them out of franchise QB territory but not good enough to win a Super Bowl unless the Jags bring the best defense in NFL history.
IDK... IMO both options are a gamble. One of those gambles looks to be far too costly. If they front loaded Bortles' deal with the guarantees then they can get out of being married to Bortles in as early as 2 years without crippling the team with dead cap. With the guarantees being offered to Cousins, you're married for the long run.
 

Clayton

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IDK... IMO both options are a gamble. One of those gambles looks to be far too costly. If they front loaded Bortles' deal with the guarantees then they can get out of being married to Bortles in as early as 2 years without crippling the team with dead cap. With the guarantees being offered to Cousins, you're married for the long run.
I'd rather be married to Cousins (phrasing!) than in a 'complicated' relationship with Bortles for lots of team but specifically for the Jaguars they simply can't sign a QB a big contract.

Their money is on the defense. Qb is always going to be a bit of a patch job for them. I feel like this is a bit of a non-story. We know who the Jaguars are. They were never getting an Alex Smith or better. Its Bortles and swing away at some late round QB prospects every now and then.
 

richig07

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With 55 seconds to go? That's hard for me to believe.



¿Que? Nunca.


I think you're overly relying on the output (stats) there. The same mechanics, the same subsequent accuracy problems, and the decisionmaking issues are still there when presented a read or throw of much difficulty. The 2nd half vs 1st half is a pretty good example of this.

List of QB's I'd take over Bortles

  1. Tom Brady
  2. Tyrod Taylor
  3. Ryan Tannehill
  4. Jay Cutler
  5. Matt Moore
  6. Ben Roethlisberger
  7. Joe Flacco
  8. Andy Dalton
  9. AJ McCarron
  10. Patrick Mahomes II
  11. Phillip Rivers
  12. Derek Carr
  13. Andrew Luck
  14. Jacoby Brissett
  15. DeShaun Watson
  16. Marcus Mariota
  17. Eli Manning
  18. Carson Wentz
  19. Nick Foles
  20. Alex Smith
  21. Dak Prescott
  22. Teddy Bridgewater
  23. Case Keenum
  24. Sam Bradford
  25. Aaron Rodgers
  26. Mitchell Trubisky
  27. Matthew Stafford
  28. Jared Goff
  29. Russell Wilson
  30. Jimmy Garroppolo
  31. Cam Newton
  32. Drew Brees
  33. Jameis Winston
  34. Matt Ryan
  35. Lamar Jackson
  36. Mason Rudolph
  37. Josh Rosen
  38. Baker Mayfield
  39. Sam Darnold
  40. Kirk Cousins


The correlation for running related to winning is pathetically weak, and the difference between running RB to RB marginal at best. This is also a sub 4 YPC back circumstance or not who isn't much of a receiver. Can't say I put any stock into this. It's not that Bortles has never played well, but he is quite usually terrible. After a season where most everything went right for the Jags, what happens when not everything goes their way? My guess is 8-8 as of right now.

Bortles AAV right now is 18M before incentives. For perspective, DeMarcus Lawrence, an elite passrusher, wants 17M AAV. Bortles is a fringe top 40 QB. Why invest that money into Bortles over 3 years? What's more disturbing is we could see this coming from a mile away with the owner's comments on Bortles; the benefit of the doubt should not be given to the Jags.



We will see what happens with Lamar Jackson, but this should not be an excuse. Now that Smith and realistically Cousins are off the table, they should trade up to get their guy. If that means Lamar Jackson so be it. At minimum they need to get out of this draft with a credible QB prospect.


Maybe, but based on Allbright's tweets, this doesn't appear very likely. The QB search continues while serving two masters.


As a backup.


The correlation for running related to winning is pathetically weak, and the difference between running RB to RB marginal at best.

Jesus man... the point is. The D and run game had some poor outings towards the end of the season. Bortles did more than his share in those contests. He went 2-1 in the post-season with a 91 rating and 0 turnovers.

If he was such a bad QB, and his mechanical flaws were that severe. It would show in his numbers. However, it simply does not.

He has proven to be a serviceable NFL starter. Putting guys who have yet to play an NFL down on your list is also completely silly.

This is also a sub 4 YPC back circumstance or not who isn't much of a receiver.

Yeah, no shit... like I said. He was hobbled and struggled to close the year.

What's correlation of winning with no running game, when your QB/pass game doesn't step up? Bortles played very well.
 

FaCe-LeE-uS

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I'd rather be married to Cousins (phrasing!) than in a 'complicated' relationship with Bortles for lots of team but specifically for the Jaguars they simply can't sign a QB a big contract.

Their money is on the defense. Qb is always going to be a bit of a patch job for them. I feel like this is a bit of a non-story. We know who the Jaguars are. They were never getting an Alex Smith or better. Its Bortles and swing away at some late round QB prospects every now and then.
Well luckily for the Jags their defense is incredibly young so they can afford not to have too much invested on that side of the ball.
 

Clayton

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Well luckily for the Jags their defense is incredibly young so they can afford not to have too much invested on that side of the ball.
Its going to be a bit of a balancing act for them to keep that defense intact but they're definitely a 'defense first' team.

Their offense is built weird. Fournette is a stud but a run-only stud that doesn't help Bortles in the pass game. I think Marquise Lee led the league in drops. (Yes, 8 drops) Bortles isn't getting as much help as one would think but the Jags are talented on that end, too.

Jaguars seem like they're going to be an 'every other year' type of contender just because the offense seems so inconsistent. Maybe thats worth reupping Bortles for. There are worse fates.
 

Fountain City Blues

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Jesus man... the point is. The D and run game had some poor outings towards the end of the season. Bortles did more than his share in those contests. He went 2-1 in the post-season with a 91 rating and 0 turnovers.

That's exactly what I thought the point was, which my core retort was we have a sample size where it does show up. 1 year or a few games doesn't convince me a regression isn't coming after what he put out there; without fixing the core problems he had (namely mechanics).

If he was such a bad QB, and his mechanical flaws were that severe. It would show in his numbers. However, it simply does not.
It moreorless does every other year be it garbage time scoring to interceptions.

He has proven to be a serviceable NFL starter.

I would say he's not. When you're this bad and unproven, it can be assumed rookies are better than him. The unknown is superior to the known bad. Agree to disagree here.
 

broncosmitty

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I’m with you on this. Seems par for the course in hooplaland. Somebody serves up a narrative based on impulse, with little or no facts, people gobble it up and it gains traction.
Last summer people actually were agreeing with each other that Henne should play.


There's no justifying that. But it was hip for some reason.
 

tducey

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Not a fan of this move at all. That team was a good QB away from being the next great NFL team. Bortles is not that QB, got to think the Jaguars take a step back this yr.
 

broncosmitty

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That's exactly what I thought the point was, which my core retort was we have a sample size where it does show up. 1 year or a few games doesn't convince me a regression isn't coming after what he put out there; without fixing the core problems he had (namely mechanics).


It moreorless does every other year be it garbage time scoring to interceptions.



I would say he's not. When you're this bad and unproven, it can be assumed rookies are better than him. The unknown is superior to the known bad. Agree to disagree here.
This honestly made me lol.


Assuming rookies are better than anyone who has played is more than foolish for a GM. It's why GMs don't do that with QBs, hardly ever.
 
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