Howard trades to the Eagles for a 2020 6th rounder

[Beengay fudgepackers]

Thats all the bears could get apparently. And it won’t even help us this year. I guess they are high on Davis and Cohen.

 

[Nelly]

That should show everyone what Howard was worth around the league. People know he's a mostly one dimensional back who doesn't have a big role in most any offense as the league continues to shift more toward being a passing league.

This all but assures us of drafting a back in the 3rd or 4th.

 

[nebearsfan70]

Well he is finally gone.

 

[richig07]

That should show everyone what Howard was worth around the league. People know he's a mostly one dimensional back who doesn't have a big role in most any offense as the league continues to shift more toward being a passing league.

This all but assures us of drafting a back in the 3rd or 4th.

I don't think there exists a RB in the NFL worth more than a 3rd. The fact someone was willing to give up a 6th which could turn into a 5th demonstrates he's regarded as a high level back.

 

[Payton]

Hate to see Howard go, but... Would LOVE to pull Myles Gaskin as a replacement...

Fuck "Thunder and Lightning"... Go dual lightning!!!

 

[BsGenius]

Hallelujah! It finally happened. Of course the genius was 3 years earlier than everyone else but I'll take it! A big middle finger to all the dunces on this board who said Howard would prove me wrong year after year. Remember dummies, if you mess with the genius, you get the horns!

And yet still monkey richi has this beauty of a line to save face: "The fact someone was willing to give up a 6th which could turn into a 5th demonstrates he's regarded as a high level back."

Ahahahahahaha. A 6 round pick in NEXT YEAR'S draft shows what a "highly regarded" back Howard is.....You can't make this stuff up. The idiots are truly idiots.

Fuck you idiots. Lmao

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Well at least it's finally over. Pace & Co have done an excellent job in just about all phases of managing the organization the past couple of years. This was not one of his shining moments. Best of luck to Howard, unless of course when he faces us.

 

[averagejoe]

 

[beardown07]

Mike Davis = someone who won't complain about getting 5 off-center, up the gut carries per game, I guess?

 

[richig07]

Mike Davis = someone who won't complain about getting 5 off-center, up the gut carries per game, I guess?

I get the feeling we are drafting a RB with one of our two first picks.

 

[Nelly]

I get the feeling we are drafting a RB with one of our two first picks.

Mike Davis is a good rotational back. I don't want him getting 300+ carries but he won't. We'll definitely draft someone to add to the mix of him and Cohen that'll give Nagy more options in calling plays.

 

[NCChiFan]

I think a draft pick for a RB will occur as well. Could also bring in a vet like TJ Yeldon, time will tell.

 

[richig07]

I think a draft pick for a RB will occur as well. Could also bring in a vet like TJ Yeldon, time will tell.

Meh... TJ Yeldon is a pass catching, 3rd down back. Doesn't much help our cause.

 

[NCChiFan]

Meh... TJ Yeldon is a pass catching, 3rd down back. Doesn't much help our cause.

I'm seeing a rb by committee with an emphasis on pass catching. He would fit that bill, but I also see a draft pick.

 

[richig07]

I'm seeing a rb by committee with an emphasis on pass catching. He would fit that bill, but I also see a draft pick.

Yeah, but we have Cohen and Davis. Two guys that are very good pass catchers (Cohen an exceptional one). We need somebody with high upside as a runner. I'm not saying that we should get a guy for the sole purpose of running. In that case we should have kept Howard. However, we DO need a guy that can handle a solid bulk of carries with efficiency.

Davis has a 3.7 YPC career average and we all know Cohen is good in short bursts... but not equipped to handle a larger workload consistently. We might be a pass oriented team, but we won't carry 3 backs whose primary role is to catch the ball.

Yeldon is just redundant and doesn't fill a need. We have him already... possibly two better versions of him.

 

[Nelly]

Yeah, but we have Cohen and Davis. Two guys that are very good pass catchers (Cohen an exceptional one). We need somebody with high upside as a runner. I'm not saying that we should get a guy for the sole purpose of running. In that case we should have kept Howard. However, we DO need a guy that can handle a solid bulk of carries with efficiency.

I think this mode of thinking is outdated. Some really dynamic offenses have guys who are able to hurt you either way. Todd Gurley, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt (in KC) and so on. Those guys are probably more coveted for their pass game abilities while still being capable or quite good rushers. Barkley and Elliot don't play in dynamic offenses (thanks to their QBs) but those offenses would be shit if they weren't there.

This is what Nagy is looking for, IMO. The idea that "we need a guy to run the ball so keep Howard" takes your matchup ability away. When Howard is in the game, the defense is happy to put a linebacker in to account for him since Howard won't outrun or outjuke today's speedy linebackers in space or in a route. IMO, Nagy wants a guy who'll make the defense pay for keeping a linebacker in by passing and make them pay for putting a DB in by running.

 

[Skerpokes]

Devine Ozigbo from Nebraska with the 5th round pick!!

 

[richig07]

I think this mode of thinking is outdated. Some really dynamic offenses have guys who are able to hurt you either way. Todd Gurley, Alvin Kamara, Kareem Hunt (in KC) and so on. Those guys are probably more coveted for their pass game abilities while still being capable or quite good rushers. Barkley and Elliot don't play in dynamic offenses (thanks to their QBs) but those offenses would be shit if they weren't there.

This is what Nagy is looking for, IMO. The idea that "we need a guy to run the ball so keep Howard" takes your matchup ability away. When Howard is in the game, the defense is happy to put a linebacker in to account for him since Howard won't outrun or outjuke today's speedy linebackers in space or in a route. IMO, Nagy wants a guy who'll make the defense pay for keeping a linebacker in by passing and make them pay for putting a DB in by running.

Per the first paragraph... I was not saying we should have kept Howard. I was actually saying we need a guy who can contribute in all facets. However, he just has to be a quality runner that can handle a 15 carry workload efficiently ALONG with contributing in the passing game. As we have zero of those currently. It's actually precisely what you are talking about. Good rushers who can also contribute in the passing game. What we don't need is TJ Yeldon... that was my only point. We have two TJ Yeldon's and they're better or as good as TJ Yeldon. It would be a redundant and pointless add to our team. TJ Yeldon is a subpar runner, equal to Davis in the passing game and less than Cohen in the passing game.

The mode of thinking that you need a "feature" who can "do it all" is the one which is antiquated, IMO. The feature back is dead. You should never pay one. RB is probably the least important position of the 11 offensive starters. If you can find a stud for their rookie contract, fine. However, you should NEVER... ever pay one big money. KC and LAR didn't miss a beat without Hunt or Gurley. Pittsburgh kept right on going with Conner. Kamara has also statistically been much more efficient with his compliment (up until now) Ingram being healthy and active.

Also, am I dreaming? Or was Legarrette Blount the leading rusher for 3 SB winning teams in 4 years during the post-season? He makes Howard look like Marshall Faulk in the passing game.

The only team with a feature back to win a SB this decade has been Seattle with Lynch. The last time one has been the centerpiece of a SB winning team? As in, a top 2-3 reason they won a SB? God dayyum... you have to go back far. New England has proven that finding a mix of guys who combine to create the characteristics of a feature back is ideal. That's the modern game.

When Howard is in the game, the defense is happy to put a linebacker in to account for him since Howard won't outrun or outjuke today's speedy linebackers in space or in a route.

This just makes no sense. If they're putting an extra LB in place of a nickel when a back like Howard is in the game. This creates a mismatch of personnel allowing you to throw the ball down the field 10+ yards more efficiently. So, it's creating a mismatch of its own kind. Also, Howard has forced something like the 3rd most missed tackles in the NFL since his rookie year (or at least up until last season), but I digress.

I am not saying we need Howard. Clearly, Nagy knows his offense better than anyone. However, this mindset of "we need to find our bell cow/feature back" who can do it all is finished and done with. It's why they don't go in the 1st round (mostly) anymore and rarely early outside of Barkley... and how much did that help the Giants offense? Even with him being a stud... yuck.

We clearly want a back who can catch the ball well. I am simply saying that this mystery back needs to be able to run at an efficient level as well. We don't need another guy whose only really good for us in the passing game. Which is Davis and Cohen.

 

[Nelly]

Per the first paragraph... I was not saying we should have kept Howard. I was actually saying we need a guy who can contribute in all facets. However, he just has to be a quality runner that can handle a 15 carry workload efficiently ALONG with contributing in the passing game. As we have zero of those currently. It's actually precisely what you are talking about. Good rushers who can also contribute in the passing game. What we don't need is TJ Yeldon... that was my only point. We have two TJ Yeldon's and they're better or as good as TJ Yeldon. It would be a redundant and pointless add to our team. TJ Yeldon is a subpar runner, equal to Davis in the passing game and less than Cohen in the passing game.

Yep, we don't need another pass game specialist.

Your mode of thinking is the one which is antiquated, IMO. The feature back is dead. You should never pay one. RB is probably the least important position of the 11 offensive starters. If you can find a stud for their rookie contract, fine. However, you should NEVER... ever pay one big money. KC and LAR didn't miss a beat without Hunt or Gurley. Kamara has also statistically been much more efficient with his compliment (up until now) Ingram being healthy and active.

Am I dreaming? Or was Legarrette Blount the leading rusher for 3 SB winning teams in 4 years during the post-season? He makes Howard look like Marshall Faulk in the passing game.

The only team with a feature back to win a SB this decade has been Seattle with Lynch. The last time one has been the centerpiece of a SB winning team? As in, a top 2-3 reason they won a SB? God dayyum... you have to go back far. New England has proven that finding a mix of guys who combine to create the characteristics of a feature back is ideal. That's the modern game.

I'm not saying a feature back that never leaves the game, but a guy who plays 60% of the snaps and is a threat both ways. We already have Cohen so he's not going to get planted on the bench for someone else. New England is a bit of an outlier considering they have Belichick and Brady: i wouldn't look at them as the model for offense cause no one else has Tom Brady.

When Howard is in the game, the defense is happy to put a linebacker in to account for him since Howard won't outrun or outjuke today's speedy linebackers in space or in a route.

This just makes no sense. If they're putting an extra LB in place of a nickel when a back like Howard is in the game. This creates a mismatch of personnel allowing you to throw the ball down the field 10+ yards more efficiently. So, it's creating a mismatch of its own kind. Also, Howard has forced something like the 3rd most missed tackles in the NFL since his rookie year (or at least up until last season), but I digress.

I am not saying we need Howard. Clearly, Nagy knows his offense better than anyone. However, this mindset of "we need to find our bell cow/feature back" who can do it all is finished and done with. It's why they don't go in the 1st round (mostly) anymore and rarely early outside of Barkley... and how much did that help the Giants offense? Even with him being a stud... yuck.

We clearly want a back who can catch the ball well. I am simply saying that this mystery back needs to be able to run at an efficient level as well. We don't need another guy whose only really good for us in the passing game. Which is Davis and Cohen.

I'm talking about your base package. Typically your base is 7 front-line players as we all know. Some teams play more nickel straight away. With Howard, if i've got linebackers that aren't liabilities in space, i'm fine with playing my base front 7, with my best coverage guy on the tight end (depending on how good he is). I'm not worried about Howard beating a linebacker in space in the passing game. With a guy like Kareem Hunt, i am, so maybe i should go nickel and take my chances of Hunt running it at me.

Howard breaks tackles from his power, not his elusiveness. He's a good one cut back who's hard to bring down if you're not in a great position when he's got a head of steam up. If Howard is rolling out into the flat or sitting down in a hole in the zone, he's much easier to tackle than when he takes a hand-off and gets a head of steam.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I get the feeling we are drafting a RB with one of our two first picks.

I'm seeing a rb by committee with an emphasis on pass catching. He would fit that bill, but I also see a draft pick.

I agree with both of you here. I'm inclined to lean towards a CB with our 3rd rounder, then maybe a RB with the 4th, only because I feel the depth is more needed there. But we all know that Pace is a BPA guy, so anything goes with the first selection.

I've been reading a lot of articles that claim Nagy's MO is to go with a RB-by-committee approach. This makes sense. We already have at least 3 RBs back there already: Davis, Cohen, and yes Patterson, who will be utilized more in the backfield than many are anticipating. And as far as I know Mizzell is still on the roster, altho I expect him to be released at some point, if he has been already.