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How would you prefer college eligibility to be handled?

How would you prefer college eligibility to be handled?

  • One and done (1 year in college, or kill the year another way...)

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    15

jontaejones

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Question for NBA fans.

I am an NBA fan as well, but a bigger college bball fan? It looks they're bringing prep to pros back.

Some of you may be old enough to remember every period of the NBA/college hardship history.

Basically, guys used to stay in college 3 to 4 years, depending on their personality. Remember, Shaquille O'Neal stayed 3 years. Then those f@ckers Kobe and Garnett screwed everything up. Then we had prep to pros and then sometime in the 2000s, we went to one-and-done.

No kids care about playing NCAA ball right now, when it used to be an honor.

Of course, they could bring all that back with the NFL hardship type requirements. The options are...

1) NFL type system. Players need to stay for 3 years and have college develop them. By the time they go the pros, they will be good enough to be NBA All-Stars their first year. This is the way it used to work ... on the regular.

2) Prep-to-pros. Self explanatory.

3) One-and-done. What we have now. One year away from high school and then you're eligible.

You can comment on what you think is 'right' but more interested in what you think as a fan and how it affects the quality of the pro game.
 

trojanfan12

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Actually, prep to pros didn't start with Kobe and KG. The earliest that I remember is Moses Malone in the late 70's or early 80's.

The NFL rule exists because players aren't physically ready for the NFL when they come out of high school.

One and done, imo, is hurting both the NCAA and the NBA. The best players aren't in college long enough for fans to really get to know who they are and it has made the coaches the stars rather than the players. It also hurts the team game aspect, imo, because they are there trying to get to the NBA right away rather than trying to work with their teammates and develop a team.

It hurts the NBA game because they are getting players who, while they are physically ready to play in the NBA, often aren't mentally or emotionally ready and they come in having to be taught fundamentals that players used to come into the league already knowing.

I wonder if Markelle Fultz is having whatever issues he's having if he had stayed in school 2 or 3 more years? Maybe Lonzo Ball spends time at UCLA working on his shot and doesn't struggle as much with it if he stayed a couple more years?

I'd like to see a mix of the NFL rule and the prep to pros model. If a player coming out of high school is good enough for the NBA, then he should be able to be drafted. But, if a player accepts a scholarship, then he needs to stay for at least 3 years.

What would still need to be figured out would be how to handle kids who decide to go from high school to an overseas professional league. From what I've read and heard, LaMelo Ball is turning himself into a possible top 10 lottery pick in the Australian League that he's playing in.

Do you let those kids into the NBA draft after a year? Or make them wait 3?
 
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jontaejones

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Actually, prep to pros didn't start with Kobe and KG. The earliest that I remember is Moses Malone in the late 70's or early 80's.

Moses did it, but it was quite uncommon back then.

I think you'd have to be at least 30 years old to remember how things used to be, because prep-to-pros didn't take off right away, but guys like Vince Carter and Paul Pierce come into the NBA and already be the star of teams. Then came that draft with Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler, and it was all over...

I think it's way better for the NBA and its fans. I think there is absolutely zero benefit for NBA FANS getting a guy like Zion Williamson straight out of high school...

I do like your idea.
 

trojanfan12

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Moses did it, but it was quite uncommon back then.

I think you'd have to be at least 30 years old to remember how things used to be, because prep-to-pros didn't take off right away, but guys like Vince Carter and Paul Pierce come into the NBA and already be the star of teams. Then came that draft with Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler, and it was all over...

I think it's way better for the NBA and its fans. I think there is absolutely zero benefit for NBA FANS getting a guy like Zion Williamson straight out of high school...

Coming into the NBA straight out of high school has always been pretty rare.

I've never really understood why they made that change. If memory serves, it happened right around the time that, I believe Sebastian Telfair, was shown on tv sitting by himself undrafted and everyone felt sorry for him. So the NBA overreacted.

Of course, as the sport has grown in popularity and more players have focused on it, you have more high school kids that are "NBA ready" so there may well be more high school kids drafted. Ideally, it would go back to being as rare as when Moses Malone did it, but that toothpaste ain't going back in the tube.

That's why I think it should be a mix of prep to pros and the NFL rule. That way, if a kid chooses to go to college, he knows he's there for 3 years and can fully commit to it rather than just treat it as a 6 month audition for the NBA.
 

CitySushi

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Question for NBA fans.

I am an NBA fan as well, but a bigger college bball fan? It looks they're bringing prep to pros back.

Some of you may be old enough to remember every period of the NBA/college hardship history.

Basically, guys used to stay in college 3 to 4 years, depending on their personality. Remember, Shaquille O'Neal stayed 3 years. Then those f@ckers Kobe and Garnett screwed everything up. Then we had prep to pros and then sometime in the 2000s, we went to one-and-done.

No kids care about playing NCAA ball right now, when it used to be an honor.

Of course, they could bring all that back with the NFL hardship type requirements. The options are...

1) NFL type system. Players need to stay for 3 years and have college develop them. By the time they go the pros, they will be good enough to be NBA All-Stars their first year. This is the way it used to work ... on the regular.

2) Prep-to-pros. Self explanatory.

3) One-and-done. What we have now. One year away from high school and then you're eligible.

You can comment on what you think is 'right' but more interested in what you think as a fan and how it affects the quality of the pro game.


The amount of money these players can make these days makes it an incredibly more difficult decision to stay in school. Do you risk potential injury playing more years in college or do you opt for the NBA which has GUARANTEED money? The decision is pretty easy when it comes to a lot of these guys who come from impoverished areas of the country. It's not about legacy. It's about practicality. A first round draft pick is guaranteed at least 2 years, with options remaining. At worst those guys will gross around 3M for the first two years for even the back end first round guys. Can you imagine the thought of that when they grew up in areas where they had nothing to eat some nights?

The most recent one I can remember is Desean Butler. He was a projected mid first rounder and then he blew out his knee in the NCAA tournament. He never played a game in the NBA.

Here's my ultimate thoughts on the situation:

1) You have to allow the players the ability to go pro right away. Basketball is different from football in that physical maturity doesn't matter as much. There are very few players in high school who could make a jump to the NFL right away without being at a huge disadvantage. That's much different than basketball, which is why I don't think the comparison could be made.

2) If drafted from Prep to pro's the players are REQUIRED to play a full year in the G-League first. They are of coursed signed to the contract that they received by their draft slot, however for player development sake, they would be required to play a year in the G-League before being allowed to play in the NBA. This would help alleviate some concerns the NBA has about product quality.

3) Allow collegiate athletes to retain their amateur status if they are not drafted. If a Sophomore declares for the draft, proceeds with it and then is not subsequently drafted, he should be allowed to return back to school to compete for his Junior year. This is really a win-win for everyone. The player gets a chance to go back to school for either education or further his basketball career to build up more stock for the following year. The school gets back another top tier talent in the college system and can compete further and put out a better on court product.


By doing the three above, it would allow for players to get compensated right away with the potential to go pro immediately after high school with the potential for guaranteed NBA money and not just G-League money. It would allow the NBA to filter it's product and build up a G-League as well with top prep athletes playing. It would also allow the NBA the ability to not dilute the league with unready talent.

But also the NCAA would benefit greatly from this as well. With allowing athletes to retain their amateur status, this would help retain some of the depth of talent and you'd see more 2-3-4 year athletes.
 

shopson67

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Prep to Pros for basketball. I would also like to see a true minor league system for the NBA and the draft extended.

If HS kids can go pro in baseball and hockey, they should be able to in all sports really, given some sort of minor league system for development. Football has no such system even in rumor lol, so the NCAA is required.

To require going to school to play professional sports has no logic to it whatsoever and really is cheap and cost-controlled labor for the schools to earn big bucks on their backs.
 

jontaejones

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2) If drafted from Prep to pro's the players are REQUIRED to play a full year in the G-League first. They are of coursed signed to the contract that they received by their draft slot, however for player development sake, they would be required to play a year in the G-League before being allowed to play in the NBA. This would help alleviate some concerns the NBA has about product quality.

I'd say that's more or less the way it is now. With the exception that you go to college for a year instead of the G-league.
The amount of money these players can make these days makes it an incredibly more difficult decision to stay in school. Do you risk potential injury playing more years in college or do you opt for the NBA which has GUARANTEED money? The decision is pretty easy when it comes to a lot of these guys who come from impoverished areas of the country. It's not about legacy. It's about practicality. A first round draft pick is guaranteed at least 2 years, with options remaining. At worst those guys will gross around 3M for the first two years for even the back end first round guys. Can you imagine the thought of that when they grew up in areas where they had nothing to eat some nights?

The most recent one I can remember is Desean Butler. He was a projected mid first rounder and then he blew out his knee in the NCAA tournament. He never played a game in the NBA.

Here's my ultimate thoughts on the situation:

1) You have to allow the players the ability to go pro right away. Basketball is different from football in that physical maturity doesn't matter as much. There are very few players in high school who could make a jump to the NFL right away without being at a huge disadvantage. That's much different than basketball, which is why I don't think the comparison could be made.

2) If drafted from Prep to pro's the players are REQUIRED to play a full year in the G-League first. They are of coursed signed to the contract that they received by their draft slot, however for player development sake, they would be required to play a year in the G-League before being allowed to play in the NBA. This would help alleviate some concerns the NBA has about product quality.

3) Allow collegiate athletes to retain their amateur status if they are not drafted. If a Sophomore declares for the draft, proceeds with it and then is not subsequently drafted, he should be allowed to return back to school to compete for his Junior year. This is really a win-win for everyone. The player gets a chance to go back to school for either education or further his basketball career to build up more stock for the following year. The school gets back another top tier talent in the college system and can compete further and put out a better on court product.


By doing the three above, it would allow for players to get compensated right away with the potential to go pro immediately after high school with the potential for guaranteed NBA money and not just G-League money. It would allow the NBA to filter it's product and build up a G-League as well with top prep athletes playing. It would also allow the NBA the ability to not dilute the league with unready talent.

But also the NCAA would benefit greatly from this as well. With allowing athletes to retain their amateur status, this would help retain some of the depth of talent and you'd see more 2-3-4 year athletes.

I'm not sure if $ was the major issue though. The $ was always there though.

The $ was there for the Shaquille O'Neals and Tim Duncans but they stayed in school anyway.

There is no way even a boy scout like Duncan plays even a sophomore year these days.

The kids today are sometimes well off. Cole Anthony could buy my ass probably 20 times over, and he hasn't even signed a contract yet, bet he has a trust fund from his pops. Same with Curry/Thompson, etc.

I think you could almost argue in a way that prep-to-pros spurred superteams. It's hard to build through the draft because it's so unpredictable.
 

CitySushi

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I'd say that's more or less the way it is now. With the exception that you go to college for a year instead of the G-league.


I'm not sure if $ was the major issue though. The $ was always there though.

The $ was there for the Shaquille O'Neals and Tim Duncans but they stayed in school anyway.

There is no way even a boy scout like Duncan plays even a sophomore year these days.

The kids today are sometimes well off. Cole Anthony could buy my ass probably 20 times over, and he hasn't even signed a contract yet, bet he has a trust fund from his pops. Same with Curry/Thompson, etc.

I think you could almost argue in a way that prep-to-pros spurred superteams. It's hard to build through the draft because it's so unpredictable.

It's the revolution of free agency and the amount of money you're able to make that has made super teams. Sacrificing 4-5m a year is not as big of a deal these days if you're still making 32M per year. Also there is so much money to be made off of endorsement deals and business ventures that the more success you have, the more your brand is worth.

Here are the team payrolls from Shaq's draft class:

https://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries93.txt

Even with inflation these days, that's nowhere near what these guys can make now. It's too lucrative an opportunity to pass up playing in the NBA.
 

tlance

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I would actually like to see a baseball type rule eliminating 1 and done.

1 think a player’s 2 options would be:

1) straight to NBA/G league from high school

2) college. But, if you pick college, you aren’t eligible to declare until after your second year. Baseball does 3, but I think that would be too much for basketball.
 

HurricaneDij39

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Why 20? Just an arbitrary number?

Just seems like a reasonable age, or two years after HS graduation. Kids in general just aren't mature enough to travel the real world and handle the rigors of the NBA season. It's not a coincidence that there aren't many HS draftees left in our league.

Most of them have flamed out in their late twenties and there's a reason for it.
 

wildturkey

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Let them go whenever. It's their life and choice. But I'd put it a properly functioning and well respected feedback system that kids can apply to so they can gauge what their actual stock is. Also would tweak NCAA rules to allow kids to come back if they declare and don't get drafted
 

shopson67

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Just seems like a reasonable age, or two years after HS graduation. Kids in general just aren't mature enough to travel the real world and handle the rigors of the NBA season. It's not a coincidence that there aren't many HS draftees left in our league.

Most of them have flamed out in their late twenties and there's a reason for it.

Arbitrary restriction, makes no sense. If you can go to war at 18....
 

shopson67

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It's not a coincidence that there aren't many HS draftees left in our league.

Maybe that has something to do with it not being allowed since 2005? How many pros have careers longer than 14 years? The fact that we still have a handful of those final few classes allowed to declare out of high school 14 years later actually works AGAINST your argument.
 

dtgold88

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Question for NBA fans.

I am an NBA fan as well, but a bigger college bball fan? It looks they're bringing prep to pros back.

Some of you may be old enough to remember every period of the NBA/college hardship history.

Basically, guys used to stay in college 3 to 4 years, depending on their personality. Remember, Shaquille O'Neal stayed 3 years. Then those f@ckers Kobe and Garnett screwed everything up. Then we had prep to pros and then sometime in the 2000s, we went to one-and-done.

No kids care about playing NCAA ball right now, when it used to be an honor.

Of course, they could bring all that back with the NFL hardship type requirements. The options are...

1) NFL type system. Players need to stay for 3 years and have college develop them. By the time they go the pros, they will be good enough to be NBA All-Stars their first year. This is the way it used to work ... on the regular.

2) Prep-to-pros. Self explanatory.

3) One-and-done. What we have now. One year away from high school and then you're eligible.

You can comment on what you think is 'right' but more interested in what you think as a fan and how it affects the quality of the pro game.
I think "right" is probably prep to pros. If good enough you should be able to go.

I'm OK with this option....maybe make it something like if you go to school need to stay 2 years (or even 3 like baseball).

As a fan of both sports I'd like to see a 2 year minimum commitment to college.
 

HurricaneDij39

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Maybe that has something to do with it not being allowed since 2005? How many pros have careers longer than 14 years? The fact that we still have a handful of those final few classes allowed to declare out of high school 14 years later actually works AGAINST your argument.

Right, because oh so many kids grow up dreaming about being the next C.J. Miles or Gerald Green. Good call. :doh:
 

msgkings322

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Right, because oh so many kids grow up dreaming about being the next C.J. Miles or Gerald Green. Good call. :doh:
CJ and Gerald made more in their careers than their non basketball playing friends will see their whole lives
 

CitySushi

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CJ and Gerald made more in their careers than their non basketball playing friends will see their whole lives

Definitely nothing wrong with having a career playing basketball, even on a lower tier. I don't understand how that's a diss.
 

CitySushi

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2005 was the last year preps were able to be drafted. Here are the previous 4 years of all the guys drafted by the NBA:

2005 - Martell Webster, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green, CJ Miles, Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Andray Blatche, Amir Johnson

2004 - Dwight Howard, Shaun Livingston, Robert Swift, Sebastian Telfair, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Dorell Wright,

2003 - Lebron James, Travis Outlaw, Ndubi Ebi, Kendrick Perkins, James Lang,

2002 - Amare Stoudamire

2001 - Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Desagna Diop, Ousmane Cisse(never played in NBA due to injury).


I mean compare those names to some of the other guys in their draft classes.

Superstars - Lebron, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire
Allstars - Tyson Chandler, Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson (all-nba team)
Quality Starters: Monta Ellis, Lou Williams, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Kendrick Perkins, Eddy Curry
Solid Role players: Gerald Green, CJ Miles, Amir Johnson, Shaun Livinston, Andray Blatche, Dorell Wright

Busts: Martell Webster (10 year career), Robert Swift (4 years), Sebastian Telfair (11 years), Travis Outlaw (11 years), Ndubi Ebi (2 years), James Lang (1 year), Kwame Brown (12 years), Desagna Diop (12 years)


If you look at the success rate in that period of time of the Prep to Pro's players, I'd argue it's a much higher success rate than that of the collegiate players. Of the "Busts", 5 out of the 9 players played more than 10 years in the NBA. Think about that.

That's why I believe all players should be eligible to be drafted straight from Preps to pro's, BUT if they're not drafted, they should be able to retain their amateur status and go to college.
 
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