• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

How do the Hawks improve their pass D?

jerseyhawksfan79

Well-Known Member
15,199
4,570
293
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 42,273.33
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Tiki Barber carved out a nice career for himself and he had fumbling issues. Carson is a work horse and yes he fumbles at times, he also gets the run game moving and gets in the end zone.
 

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
On the subject of the pass defense, I'm wondering how many snaps the Seahawks should continue playing K.J. Wright. According to The Athletic Wright has six passes defensed and a game-clinching interception, but he has also allowed more yards (362) than any linebacker in the league, along with five explosive pass plays and a pair of touchdowns.

That's pretty concerning considering how much the Seahawks run their base 4-3 defense.

Shame we didnt take van der esch, he was the PERFECT replacement for kj. Insteadwe got penny

Tiki Barber carved out a nice career for himself and he had fumbling issues. Carson is a work horse and yes he fumbles at times, he also gets the run game moving and gets in the end zone.

I like carson, I hate that he has fumblitis. I'm mostly pointing out what a waste penny was
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Just for comparison sake I looked up Shaun Alexander and Marshawn Lynch's fumbles while they were in Seattle. Arguably our best two RB's ever.

Alexander:
2000 - 2
2001 - 4
2002 - 3
2003 - 4
2004 - 5
2005 - 5 (MVP year)
2006 - 6
2007 - 2

Lynch:
2010 - 3
2011 - 3
2012 - 5
2013 - 4
2014 - 3
2015 - 0

Fumbles don't tell the whole story, how many were lost fumbles?
 

dkmightyhammer

Livin' la vida loca
21,858
12,735
1,033
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Fumbles don't tell the whole story, how many were lost fumbles?

Alexander:
year---games---fumbles---lost---carries---fumble/carries%
00..........16..........2...........2.......69..........2.89
01..........16..........4...........4.......353........1.13
02..........16..........3...........1.......354........0.84
03..........16..........4...........3.......368........1.08
04..........16..........5...........3.......376........1.32
05..........16..........5...........1.......385........1.29 (MVP year)
06..........10..........6...........3.......264........2.27
07..........13..........2...........0.......221........0.90

Lynch:
10..........12..........3...........3.......186.........1.61
11..........15..........3...........2.......313.........0.95
12..........16..........5...........2.......338.........1.47
13..........16..........4...........1.......337.........1.18
14..........16..........3...........2.......317.........0.94
15...........7...........0...........0.......124.........0.00

Carson:
17...........4...........0...........0.......56..........0.00
18..........14..........3...........2.......267........1.12
19............9...........5..........4.......199........2.51

Carries = rushing and receiving carries.

I guess what this shows is that Carson is putting the ball on the ground by about 1 to 1.5% more than SA and ML did. That doesn't sound like much but over the course of a 350 carry season it means 4 to 5 more fumbles than either of Alexander or Lynch's average years. So Carson definitely has some work to do to clean up his ball security.

It also shows how much more SA and Beast touched the ball per game.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
a lot of RB also have a knack for getting the ball back when they fumble where as Carsons always seem to go to the other team.

Lets not forget at what point in a game they fumble. Like say when you are up 20 with 4 minutes left that doesn't hurt as much as say down 7-10 with 4 minutes left. Carson needs to start feeling this presure more and SWITCH THE BALL INTO YOUR OFF PRESSURE HAND!

He has fumbled doing that also ( Switching to off pressure hand) but thats because he does it SO late that they hit him during the switch.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Just for comparison sake I looked up Shaun Alexander and Marshawn Lynch's fumbles while they were in Seattle. Arguably our best two RB's ever.

Alexander:
2000 - 2
2001 - 4
2002 - 3
2003 - 4
2004 - 5
2005 - 5 (MVP year)
2006 - 6
2007 - 2

Lynch:
2010 - 3
2011 - 3
2012 - 5
2013 - 4
2014 - 3
2015 - 0

Alexander and Lunch rarely fumbled and it shows the lack of focus on Carson’s part, he tends to get sloppy with the ball right near the end of runs, even when it’s an open field run... He either fixes this problem, or he’s not gonna last very long in the NFL, even with all that talent ...
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Carson has fumbled what feels like 10 times and cost the team a game at home. IF penny was any good he would have taken all the carries at that point.

The fact he hasnt just shows how bad he really is.


Penny had looked decent though with some of his opportunities....
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
21,504
6,060
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,716.70
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Alexander and Lunch rarely fumbled and it shows the lack of focus on Carson’s part, he tends to get sloppy with the ball right near the end of runs, even when it’s an open field run... He either fixes this problem, or he’s not gonna last very long in the NFL, even with all that talent ...

Giving up possessions in the NFL is tough to overcome... Especially when the NFL average is 10-12 per game per team... If RW had a few more TO's this season, i'm sure we would've lost another game or two... Putting the ball on the ground 5x's this year on 199 carries is a bit much by NFL Standards for a starting RB...
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I think Penny might have a better burst and quickness, but he's nowhere near the bulldozer that Carson is.

Penny is pretty good at yards after contact, one of the reasons we drafted him I think... But agreed, Carson right now is doing good things... The fumble problem is a huge issue though, it’s a dam shame he has this one glaring problem.... That problem is a big one though, losing the football can doom a team ...
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Giving up possessions in the NFL is tough to overcome... Especially when the NFL average is 10-12 per game per team... If RW had a few more TO's this season, i'm sure we would've lost another game or two... Putting the ball on the ground 5x's this year on 199 carries is a bit much by NFL Standards for a starting RB...

Yeah, we’ve dodged a couple bullets... Some of those fumbles came at critical times also, we’ve been fortunate... Carson has gotta clean that up... And now of course the scouting report for other teams is Carson has a fumble issue, which makes the defense go for the ball that much more...
 

dkmightyhammer

Livin' la vida loca
21,858
12,735
1,033
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Location
Alberta, Canada
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Giving up possessions in the NFL is tough to overcome... Especially when the NFL average is 10-12 per game per team... If RW had a few more TO's this season, i'm sure we would've lost another game or two... Putting the ball on the ground 5x's this year on 199 carries is a bit much by NFL Standards for a starting RB...

If he's fumbling at this rate year after year it is definitely a problem, but I went back and looked at some all time great running back stats and they've all had a few bad years. Walter Payton had seasons with 9,10,11 fumbles (more than once too) and that was in a 14 game season. Emmitt Smith had a couple years where had 6 and 7 fumbles (losing 5 and 6 of them). Adrian Peterson early in his career had lots of fumbles. Barry Sanders had a couple bad years. Eric Dickerson?! He started his first 4 years with 13,14, 10, and 12 fumbles. That blew me away when I saw it.

Point being, that yes Carson has had a rough start with 5 fumbles, but that doesn't mean he'll always be that way. And some HOF'ers have had far worse years (for fumbles) and still had stellar careers. Not saying Carson is anywhere near HOF status either. I just need to add that so people don't get the wrong idea. I'm just saying it's possible we are over-blowing just how bad his fumble issues are at this point in his career.
 

Anointed One

Gone Country!
21,504
6,060
533
Joined
Aug 29, 2014
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,716.70
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If he's fumbling at this rate year after year it is definitely a problem, but I went back and looked at some all time great running back stats and they've all had a few bad years. Walter Payton had seasons with 9,10,11 fumbles (more than once too) and that was in a 14 game season. Emmitt Smith had a couple years where had 6 and 7 fumbles (losing 5 and 6 of them). Adrian Peterson early in his career had lots of fumbles. Barry Sanders had a couple bad years. Eric Dickerson?! He started his first 4 years with 13,14, 10, and 12 fumbles. That blew me away when I saw it.

Point being, that yes Carson has had a rough start with 5 fumbles, but that doesn't mean he'll always be that way. And some HOF'ers have had far worse years (for fumbles) and still had stellar careers. Not saying Carson is anywhere near HOF status either. I just need to add that so people don't get the wrong idea. I'm just saying it's possible we are over-blowing just how bad his fumble issues are at this point in his career.

Agree... I like Carson a lot and hope he doesn't continue this trend... IF he cleans it up, he'll have a nice career... If not, he won't be a starting RB in a year or two...
 

blstoker

Bill Bergen for HoF!
14,258
2,846
293
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Location
WA
Hoopla Cash
$ 9,816.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
What I’ve learned for inspirational sports movies is that Carson just needs the proper motivation to learn:

 

MrS

Well-Known Member
5,165
862
113
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Penny is pretty good at yards after contact

I have not seen this. He goes down easy and sometimes it looks intentional. Very reminiscent of shaun alexander.

He would be fine on a team with a dominant OL, but on a team where he has to be his own blocker he isnt good enough to carry the load.

Which is why its dumbfounding that they took him in round one. He just isnt a good fit at all.
 

Screamin12th

Well-Known Member
6,562
1,349
173
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 6,290.90
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I have not seen this. He goes down easy and sometimes it looks intentional. Very reminiscent of shaun alexander.

He would be fine on a team with a dominant OL, but on a team where he has to be his own blocker he isnt good enough to carry the load.

Which is why its dumbfounding that they took him in round one. He just isnt a good fit at all.

in 2018 he had a 1.7 yac ( yards after contact ) in 2019 that number is at 2.4. That is the same YAC average that Carson had in 2018. Carsons YAC this season though is up to 3.2 and that is on par with Marshawn Lynch. So no Penny doesn't go down on first contact but yes he is not as good at it as Lynch was and Carson is "NOW". Penny's YAC is above average so either people have a unfair bias opinion and just don't like him or they are not paying attention.
 

seahawksfan234

Radical Moderate
21,399
6,573
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Location
Seattle, Washington
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Shame we didnt take van der esch, he was the PERFECT replacement for kj. Insteadwe got penny



I like carson, I hate that he has fumblitis. I'm mostly pointing out what a waste penny was

Seahawks would've had to trade up to take Vander Esch. I do like Cody Barton and I'm biased being a UW fan but I also like Ben Burr-Kirven. Obviously I'd prefer Vander Esch to both of those guys, but it is what it is.

The fumbling issue I'm not concerned about. He only had 3 fumbles last year and IMO it's a fixable problem and something that I don't think will continue.

I can understand your preference to use a first round pick on a different position, but Carson was coming off of a serious injury and hadn't really proven himself completely prior to the injury. At this point though I am happy to have Penny due to the workload they give Carson and his injury history.
 

boogiewithstu2007

Well-Known Member
16,995
4,252
293
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
How many effin slant routes are we gonna get chewed up on ? It’s just incredible how easy this defense makes it for QB’s ...
 

AceKeptic

Free Agent from Elsewhere
2,972
647
113
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Zone is for pussies. The sooner they realize this, the better. Get aggressive once in a while...
 
Top