Griffin a top GM?

[dtgold88]

You are EXTREMELY biased in favor of everything Cleveland. It shows in just about every post you make about the Cavs.

Yeah...except I've said I do not care for Gilbert (or Lebron). And rarely do I offer my opinions as facts. You do and you are here again.

But that's cool. You be you.

Go ahead and get the last word. Make it count....maybe a new baseless opinion as fact you can add? Perhaps Lebron asked Gilbert to help out with the I Promise school and Gilbert said no? Or, hell, since you are just making it up go ahead and throw out an elite player they were offered for the Brooklyn pick. Come on. Dig deep.

 

[The Q]

Exactly.

Been discussed at length.

But LeBron wasn’t going to commit long term. He made that clear.

The reason?

IMO he didn’t trust Gilbert.

And I don’t blame either side for that.

if Lebron would’ve committed if they used the pick to get PG13, pg13 would’ve been a cav.

but you’re not doing that deal if bron isn’t definitely staying

 

[tlance]

And I don’t blame either side for that.

if Lebron would’ve committed if they used the pick to get PG13, pg13 would’ve been a cav.

but you’re not doing that deal if bron isn’t definitely staying

Why not?

Whether the Cavs have Colin Sexton or not is irrelevant. He is a good player, but if he helps them win 45 games someday and lose in the first round, so what?

My position in this argument is that if trading for PG gave them a 20% chance to keep LeBron, they should have done it.

Because what you see now is what the next 20 years are likely to be for Cleveland.

Colin Sexton’s come and go and ultimately have relatively insignificant impact on winning. There is only 1 LeBron James.

Asking LeBron to commit long term when Gilbert KNEW LeBron wouldn’t do it was Gilbert’s way of signaling that he was ready to move on.

 

[The Q]

Why not?

Whether the Cavs have Colin Sexton or not is irrelevant. He is a good player, but if he helps them win 45 games someday and lose in the first round, so what?

My position in this argument is that if trading for PG gave them a 20% chance to keep LeBron, they should have done it.

Because what you see now is what the next 20 years are likely to be for Cleveland.

Colin Sexton’s come and go and ultimately have relatively insignificant impact on winning. There is only 1 LeBron James.

Asking LeBron to commit long term when Gilbert KNEW LeBron wouldn’t do it was Gilbert’s way of signaling that he was ready to move on.

Your last paragraph makes no sense. Lebron is in the wrong here.

They were willing to make a huge deal for him.

 

[tlance]

Your last paragraph makes no sense. Lebron is in the wrong here.

They were willing to make a huge deal for him.

It makes perfect sense.

LeBron signed short term deals to maximize his leverage. As soon as he signs long term, he loses his ability to force Gilbert’s hand. LeBron wanted that control.

 

[The Q]

It makes perfect sense.

LeBron signed short term deals to maximize his leverage. As soon as he signs long term, he loses his ability to force Gilbert’s hand. LeBron wanted that control.

And he wouldn’t commit to even that.

a team lead by pg and love goes to the second round.

 

[tlance]

And he wouldn’t commit to even that.

a team lead by pg and love goes to the second round.

I don’t think a PG/Love team gets to the second round. But that doesn’t matter.

Like I said, very clearly.

If there is ANY chance at all of keeping LeBron in Cleveland, you roll the dice without the commitment.

Because that is the only way they are contending.

And their next title contention window might not be for another 50 years. Franchises like Cleveland don’t get title windows very often.

And that is why I am knocking Gilbert here. He chose to take his team back an restart rather than attempt to keep LeBron. That is totally within his rights to do that, but if I were a Cleveland fan, I would have been upset about it.

That is all.

 

[ElPatron1]

I don’t think a PG/Love team gets to the second round. But that doesn’t matter.

Like I said, very clearly.

If there is ANY chance at all of keeping LeBron in Cleveland, you roll the dice without the commitment.

Because that is the only way they are contending.

And their next title contention window might not be for another 50 years. Franchises like Cleveland don’t get title windows very often.

And that is why I am knocking Gilbert here. He chose to take his team back an restart rather than attempt to keep LeBron. That is totally within his rights to do that, but if I were a Cleveland fan, I would have been upset about it.

That is all.

At the time it appeared that Lebrons championship window was shut, because we didn’t know GS would blow up in such epic fashion. That likely played a roll in Gilbert not caring anymore, but I am also just speculating.

Here is the thing about Lebron. He is never happy. He wasn’t happy in CLE so he went to Mia. Then he wasn’t happy in Mia so he went back to CLE. Then he wasn’t happy again so he went to LA. At some point likely this season the way the nets are stacking assets similar to GS, he won’t be happy in LA. It’s just the trend.

 

[tlance]

At the time it appeared that Lebrons championship window was shut, because we didn’t know GS would blow up in such epic fashion. That likely played a roll in Gilbert not caring anymore, but I am also just speculating.

Here is the thing about Lebron. He is never happy. He wasn’t happy in CLE so he went to Mia. Then he wasn’t happy in Mia so he went back to CLE. Then he wasn’t happy again so he went to LA. At some point likely this season the way the nets are stacking assets similar to GS, he won’t be happy in LA. It’s just the trend.

Maybe.

Still though, when you are a non-destination market like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Sacramento, etc.,

You almost have to have an MVP caliber superstar to contend. These guys don’t come along often. And Cleveland let theirs go without a real fight.

If they had traded every future asset they had, they would definitely be behind where they are today. But it doesn’t look like they are going anywhere today. Which is why I say it is always worth the risk to go all in and retain that LeBron caliber player.

 

[The Q]

Maybe.

Still though, when you are a non-destination market like Cleveland, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Sacramento, etc.,

You almost have to have an MVP caliber superstar to contend. These guys don’t come along often. And Cleveland let theirs go without a real fight.

If they had traded every future asset they had, they would definitely be behind where they are today. But it doesn’t look like they are going anywhere today. Which is why I say it is always worth the risk to go all in and retain that LeBron caliber player.

I go the other way.

if Lebron wasn’t going to commit with PG on board, he wasn’t committing.

 

[tlance]

I go the other way.

if Lebron wasn’t going to commit with PG on board, he wasn’t committing.

And so what?

Are they really that much better off now?

 

[trojanfan12]

I go the other way.

if Lebron wasn’t going to commit with PG on board, he wasn’t committing.

Maybe not, but imo, that doesn't excuse not pulling the trigger on that trade. If they brought in PG and Lebron chose to leave, they still have a pretty good duo in PG and Love that may be able to attract another good FA with. Likely doesn't make them champs, but it keeps them in the thick of things in the East. If it didn't work out, they could have been traded. That haul that the Clips traded for PG, could have gone to the Cavs.

As @tlance points out, a non-destination franchise doesn't get these kinds of opportunities very often, so they have to do whatever they can to keep the window open as long as possible when they do get one. Cleveland didn't do that, imo.

 

[dtgold88]

Maybe not, but imo, that doesn't excuse not pulling the trigger on that trade. If they brought in PG and Lebron chose to leave, they still have a pretty good duo in PG and Love that may be able to attract another good FA with. Likely doesn't make them champs, but it keeps them in the thick of things in the East. If it didn't work out, they could have been traded. That haul that the Clips traded for PG, could have gone to the Cavs.

As @tlance points out, a non-destination franchise doesn't get these kinds of opportunities very often, so they have to do whatever they can to keep the window open as long as possible when they do get one. Cleveland didn't do that, imo.

well, OK, but the guy who didn't pull the trigger on that deal was Griff, himself.

As to being able to trade PG to the Clips not sure how that was happening, unless they planned to do it while still contending with Lebron on the team. PG was a FA after Lebron's last year here. So they could have lost both AND not had the pick.

 

[trojanfan12]

well, OK, but the guy who didn't pull the trigger on that deal was Griff, himself.

True. But if Gilbert wanted it done, it would have been done.

As to being able to trade PG to the Clips not sure how that was happening, unless they planned to do it while still contending with Lebron on the team. PG was a FA after Lebron's last year here. So they could have lost both AND not had the pick.

That's right. I forgot that he signed with the Thunder as an FA. No guarantee he re-signs with the Cavs, especially if Lebron is gone.

 

[dtgold88]

True. But if Gilbert wanted it done, it would have been done.



That's right. I forgot that he signed with the Thunder as an FA. No guarantee he re-signs with the Cavs, especially if Lebron is gone.

Sure Gilbert could overrule it, but then he gets blamed for meddling. And, hell, for all we know Gilbert wanted to do it and Griff talked him out of it (seemed pretty adamant he wasn't making moves that hurt the future without a commitment from Lebron)

Not even saying wasn't a better deal to be made for Kyrie nor that they couldn't have moved the pick for a player who helps them beat GS (never even heard a rumor for such a player though). But we don't know and we certainly don't know that Lebron would have stayed if they made such a move.

I really believe he was going to LA regardless and can't really blame him if that's what he wanted. Just my opinion.

 

[trojanfan12]

Sure Gilbert could overrule it, but then he gets blamed for meddling. And, hell, for all we know Gilbert wanted to do it and Griff talked him out of it (seemed pretty adamant he wasn't making moves that hurt the future without a commitment from Lebron)

Not even saying wasn't a better deal to be made for Kyrie nor that they couldn't have moved the pick for a player who helps them beat GS (never even heard a rumor for such a player though). But we don't know and we certainly don't know that Lebron would have stayed if they made such a move.

I really believe he was going to LA regardless and can't really blame him if that's what he wanted. Just my opinion.

Yeah, for me, I think you still make the trade. If for no other reason than to be able to tell fans that you really did try to do everything to keep him.

But it makes them not doing it more understandable.

And to be fair to all parties...sometimes, it's just time to move on. It was always a somewhat contentious relationship between Lebron and Gilbert anyway. After awhile, that had to be wearing them both out. I'd imagine that took a lot of the fun out of a pretty great run.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, for me, I think you still make the trade. If for no other reason than to be able to tell fans that you really did try to do everything to keep him.

But it makes them not doing it more understandable.

And to be fair to all parties...sometimes, it's just time to move on. It was always a somewhat contentious relationship between Lebron and Gilbert anyway. After awhile, that had to be wearing them both out. I'd imagine that took a lot of the fun out of a pretty great run.

Cannot say I'd have been upset if they did it (certainly not at the time). And, yeah, they could have justified it if they didn't win a title and both left. Plus, we'd have never known about the Brooklyn pick being offered later.

as to your last comments, Griff pretty much said as much when he said he knew after winning the title he was not coming back for any amount of money. Pretty confident in saying even when Lebron agreed to return those 2 never liked the other and tolerated each other as they could each give them what they wanted.

 

[bksballer89]

not a good look

Redick: Pels, Griffin didn't honor word with trade

JJ Redick criticized the Pelicans' front office for the way it handled his trade to the Mavericks, saying that New Orleans executive David Griffin "did not honor his word" to help put Redick in a favorable situation where he would be closer to his family.

www.espn.com

 

[dtgold88]

not a good look

Redick: Pels, Griffin didn't honor word with trade

JJ Redick criticized the Pelicans' front office for the way it handled his trade to the Mavericks, saying that New Orleans executive David Griffin "did not honor his word" to help put Redick in a favorable situation where he would be closer to his family.

www.espn.com

haha....was about to add this here. Cannot even imagine the media outrage if the was the Cavs who did that. As it stands, I'm sure Altman or Gilbert could somehow be blamed if they try hard enough.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

haha....was about to add this here. Cannot even imagine the media outrage if the was the Cavs who did that. As it stands, I'm sure Altman or Gilbert could somehow be blamed if they try hard enough.

You're either exaggerating on the word 'outrage' or you're really overestimating how much people care about what happens in the Cavs' front office.