Great article by Bill Simmons

[beantownmaniac]

I had to laugh at this: I guess that's what happens when you cancel six weeks of games and Thanksgiving is looming — maybe there's a little more urgency, you say some things you regret, people take those things personally, and suddenly you're threatening each other in monotone Canadian accents. Why don't you go to hell, eh?


Why the NHL needs to rid themselves of Gary Bettman - Grantland

 

[beantownmaniac]

Also, look for the article about Ian White criticizing Bettman.

 

[pixburgher66]

I was pissed at Dreger for saying that White "had to apologize". Were his comments unprofessional? Heck yeah. But the owners have been just as nasty. What, the "boss" can say stuff, but the players can't? They've held back a lot more. We all know the owners are losing money, but they have enterprises outside of the NHL. You have to to own a sports franchise. So while yes they're losing money, they have other things. All of them. A lot of players have been asked about finances and been honest, and then people complain. Athletes aren't the best money managers. There was an ESPN 30:30 on that. "Broke". Great, great show.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I was pissed at Dreger for saying that White "had to apologize". Were his comments unprofessional? Heck yeah. But the owners have been just as nasty. What, the "boss" can say stuff, but the players can't? They've held back a lot more. We all know the owners are losing money, but they have enterprises outside of the NHL. You have to to own a sports franchise. So while yes they're losing money, they have other things. All of them. A lot of players have been asked about finances and been honest, and then people complain. Athletes aren't the best money managers. There was an ESPN 30:30 on that. "Broke". Great, great show.

Shit, I would like to see that. It is so true though. Just read a story about Ray Guy he had to sell his Super Bowl rings because he was in financial trouble. He is also very pissed at the fact that he isn't in the HOF even though he was selected for the NFL 75 year greatest players team.

Personally I agree with him that the NFL treats the kickers and punters like shit and like he said they act like they're not even players on the team. Funny how they are noticed if they blow a kick or shank a punt that cost the team a game.

 

[pixburgher66]

Shit, I would like to see that. It is so true though. Just read a story about Ray Guy he had to sell his Super Bowl rings because he was in financial trouble. He is also very pissed at the fact that he isn't in the HOF even though he was selected for the NFL 75 year greatest players team.

Personally I agree with him that the NFL treats the kickers and punters like shit and like he said they act like they're not even players on the team. Funny how they are noticed if they blow a kick or shank a punt that cost the team a game.

Kickers are the most disrespected players with possibly the toughest job mentally. And it was very interesting. The NFLers have it the worst financially. Unless you're a very high end player you have about 3 years of good money and none is guarenteed. Their lockout only ended because the low end players couldn't afford to lose the paychecks. They make a lot, sure. But they have a pressure to live the lifestyle too. And the players that make the most? QBs. Most educated players? QBs. They know how to handle their money. It's a very interesting situation. They didn't even focus much about how often these guys get hit up for money. Every family member expects to be taken care of.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Kickers are the most disrespected players with possibly the toughest job mentally. And it was very interesting. The NFLers have it the worst financially. Unless you're a very high end player you have about 3 years of good money and none is guarenteed. Their lockout only ended because the low end players couldn't afford to lose the paychecks. They make a lot, sure. But they have a pressure to live the lifestyle too. And the players that make the most? QBs. Most educated players? QBs. They know how to handle their money. It's a very interesting situation. They didn't even focus much about how often these guys get hit up for money. Every family member expects to be taken care of.

Here is that article on Ray Guy.

Legendary Raiders punter Ray Guy frustrated but resigned that he's not in Hall of Fame - Yahoo! Sports

Sorry If I hi-jacked your topic BT. That is a good read and thank you.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Ray guy not in the HOF is a joke. He changed the way punters kicked. He freakin hit the top of either the superdome or astrodome. I don't think a punter has had better hang time since either.

 

[beantownmaniac]

Here is that article on Ray Guy.

Legendary Raiders punter Ray Guy frustrated but resigned that he's not in Hall of Fame - Yahoo! Sports

Sorry If I hi-jacked your topic BT. That is a good read and thank you.

:focus:

 

[beantownmaniac]

Kickers are the most disrespected players with possibly the toughest job mentally. And it was very interesting. The NFLers have it the worst financially. Unless you're a very high end player you have about 3 years of good money and none is guarenteed. Their lockout only ended because the low end players couldn't afford to lose the paychecks. They make a lot, sure. But they have a pressure to live the lifestyle too. And the players that make the most? QBs. Most educated players? QBs. They know how to handle their money. It's a very interesting situation. They didn't even focus much about how often these guys get hit up for money. Every family member expects to be taken care of.

Of the 4 major sports NFL'ers have the shortest careers I believe.

 

[dash]

I was under the assumption that Ray Guy was already in the Hall of Fame...

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I was under the assumption that Ray Guy was already in the Hall of Fame...

Nope, and it's a joke that he's not. Like we were saying kickers get no respect even some of the announcers and coaches laugh about them be "football players" but they can be game changers in so many ways. It's a TEAM sport and they should be treated that way.

Lets face it, we could all sit here and name hundreds of games that were decided by them. Jesus here in Buffalo "wide right" was a good example.

 

[elocomotive]

Nope, and it's a joke that he's not. Like we were saying kickers get no respect even some of the announcers and coaches laugh about them be "football players" but they can be game changers in so many ways. It's a TEAM sport and they should be treated that way.
Lets face it, we could all sit here and name hundreds of games that were decided by them. Jesus here in Buffalo "wide right" was a good example.

Yeah, but there is no job in sports so unusual/unique in comparison to the rest of the team as kickers/punters. They practice separate and apart from the team. They only learn a small portion of the playbook. Very few possess the physical toughness that every other player on the team has to have. And they are protected by rules that don't even allow you to treat them the same during most plays than other players. There is really nothing else like it in sports. Even goalies (also kind of a specialist position) in soccer and hockey still have to work with, direct, and interact with their teammates. Kickers don't have to, and many of them simply do not.

And yet, you are right. At times, they are the most important guy on the team. Hell, I remember in 1982 when Redskins' kicker Mark Moseley was named league MVP because he booted so many game winners.

In the abstract, field goals/extra points are honestly a very weird part of the game and don't really make sense. Imagine if in baseball, you had a guy come out onto the field onto a single bowling lane after each home run was hit. If he bowled a strike, the home team got an extra run. Is he really going to be accepted as a baseball player?

It's a weird position. You are correct it maybe doesn't get the respect it deserves... but at the same time, with good reason.

 

[pixburgher66]

Even punters are vital. The HS team I work with lost because of a shanked punt.

 

[dash]

That's a great post by eloco - The only thing I would add is that if you're generally regarded as the best at your position (and by a significant margin) in league history, you would think that enshrinement would be a no-brainer.

 

[elocomotive]

That's a great post by eloco - The only thing I would add is that if you're generally regarded as the best at your position (and by a significant margin) in league history, you would think that enshrinement would be a no-brainer.

That's definitely true. Football's Hall of Fame is very biased towards the glamour positions - QB, WR, and RB. Guys reach certain number thresholds and they put them in, while overlooking offensive and defensive lineman and other positions that perhaps deserve it more.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

Yeah, but there is no job in sports so unusual/unique in comparison to the rest of the team as kickers/punters. They practice separate and apart from the team. They only learn a small portion of the playbook. Very few possess the physical toughness that every other player on the team has to have. And they are protected by rules that don't even allow you to treat them the same during most plays than other players. There is really nothing else like it in sports. Even goalies (also kind of a specialist position) in soccer and hockey still have to work with, direct, and interact with their teammates. Kickers don't have to, and many of them simply do not.

And yet, you are right. At times, they are the most important guy on the team. Hell, I remember in 1982 when Redskins' kicker Mark Moseley was named league MVP because he booted so many game winners.

In the abstract, field goals/extra points are honestly a very weird part of the game and don't really make sense. Imagine if in baseball, you had a guy come out onto the field onto a single bowling lane after each home run was hit. If he bowled a strike, the home team got an extra run. Is he really going to be accepted as a baseball player?

It's a weird position. You are correct it maybe doesn't get the respect it deserves... but at the same time, with good reason.

Another position that is taken for granted is that of the long snapper. Next time you're out tossing a football around try standing 15 yards from another person and constantly pitching the ball waist high to them. IMO if they fuck up and take the heat for screwing up they should get kudos for getting it right.

I know they don't take part in the game preparations like the offense and defense but again they don't because it's expected that they will do their job adding to the pressure of the position. If a punter or kicker pins a team deep in their zone because he nailed a kick inside the ten yard line he made the play that makes it easier for the defense.

I see your point but also feel they are team players esp when special teams make up almost 30% of the plays during a game.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

That's definitely true. Football's Hall of Fame is very biased towards the glamour positions - QB, WR, and RB. Guys reach certain number thresholds and they put them in, while overlooking offensive and defensive lineman and other positions that perhaps deserve it more.

Like Ray Guy said their is also politics involve with almost all HOF's. Shit even the Rock and Roll HOF is bullshit. When someone can explain to me why Madonna is in there and a group like KISS isn't i'm all ears. Hell Rush just made it in this year and she has been in for years. Rock and Roll HOF? Yeah right.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Even punters are vital. The HS team I work with lost because of a shanked punt.

Weatherford, the Giants punter was a big reason why they won the Super Bowl last year. However, Pierre-Paul should have won the MVP for the game.

 

[mbhhofr]

Another position that is taken for granted is that of the long snapper. Next time you're out tossing a football around try standing 15 yards from another person and constantly pitching the ball waist high to them. IMO if they fuck up and take the heat for screwing up they should get kudos for getting it right.

This brought a smile to my face. When I was seventeen, I had a friend who's cousin was George Druxman, who at the time was the center for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. I was over at her house one day and Druxman was there. We were talking football and he offered to take me out into the yard and teach me how to long snap back to the punter. This was a couple of days before he was to take his physical prior to when the Bomber training camp was to start.

So, he takes a couple of snaps to show me how to hold the ball and spin it when I snap it. He then has me take the position and snap the ball. After I snap it he shows me how to block by lunging forward with my arms up by my chest. Well, now he's standing over me and he tells me to snap the ball and take the blocking position. I snap the ball and lunge forward, bring my head up and hit him in the nose with my head. He's bleeding.

I saw him a few weeks later and he told me that when he had his physical, they told him that his nose was broken. He was also a hockey fan and when I refereed Jr. games and he saw me before the game he would always smile at me and rub his nose.