good read on Major Junior vs College

[puckhead]

NHL watches as colleges wage war with Canadian junior hockey - NHL - Sporting News

for once Burke isn't just flapping his gums for exercise.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I'm a huge fan of college hockey and the U of M in particular, so this is a little personal to me.

I don't ever seeing the NCAA competing with the CHL, ever. There is too much tradition, skill, and benefits to playing major junior hockey. The article does try to make a case for college hockey and the players it produces, but let's be real. The best players usually play in the CHL, and while college hockey has produced some gems it's not a machine like major junior.

I love college hockey, I think it's some of the most entertaining hockey on the planet. But the quality level isn't there, and it's not the best place for most young players to develop into NHLers.

 

[puckhead]

I'm a huge fan of college hockey and the U of M in particular, so this is a little personal to me.

I don't ever seeing the NCAA competing with the CHL, ever. There is too much tradition, skill, and benefits to playing major junior hockey. The article does try to make a case for college hockey and the players it produces, but let's be real. The best players usually play in the CHL, and while college hockey has produced some gems it's not a machine like major junior.

I love college hockey, I think it's some of the most entertaining hockey on the planet. But the quality level isn't there, and it's not the best place for most young players to develop into NHLers.

I think that's the key to it, and can't see that changing for the foreseeable future.
NCAA is a great place for a good hockey player to get his education paid for, but if you're on an "NHL or bust" program, then the CHL is the place to be.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I think that's the key to it, and can't see that changing for the foreseeable future.
NCAA is a great place for a good hockey player to get his education paid for, but if you're on an "NHL or bust" program, then the CHL is the place to be.

I disagree to a certain extent. I think it depends on the college a kid goes too. Ryan Kesler went to Ohio St. They aren't even a college hockey powerhouse.

 

[puckhead]

I disagree to a certain extent. I think it depends on the college a kid goes too. Ryan Kesler went to Ohio St. They aren't even a college hockey powerhouse.

sure there are exceptions.

and I'll even agree that the % of draftees (or NHL players in general, as there's a whole crop of non-drafted free agents coming into the game) is on the rise, but majority of the best players, and the largest number players overall, do come from, and will continue to come from the CHL.

 

[Automattic]

I just love the college atmosphere. Most of the kids in the crowd spend all 4 years going to games and it's the first time most of them have ever seen live hockey.

 

[higgyfan4]

I'm a huge fan of college hockey and the U of M in particular, so this is a little personal to me.

I don't ever seeing the NCAA competing with the CHL, ever. There is too much tradition, skill, and benefits to playing major junior hockey. The article does try to make a case for college hockey and the players it produces, but let's be real. The best players usually play in the CHL, and while college hockey has produced some gems it's not a machine like major junior.

I love college hockey, I think it's some of the most entertaining hockey on the planet. But the quality level isn't there, and it's not the best place for most young players to develop into NHLers.

I agree, expect for the U of M part, but yes, definitely agree with the rest of it.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I love college hockey, I think it's some of the most entertaining hockey on the planet. But the quality level isn't there, and it's not the best place for most young players to develop into NHLers.

I think that's the key to it, and can't see that changing for the foreseeable future.
NCAA is a great place for a good hockey player to get his education paid for, but if you're on an "NHL or bust" program, then the CHL is the place to be.

I disagree to a certain extent. I think it depends on the college a kid goes too. Ryan Kesler went to Ohio St. They aren't even a college hockey powerhouse.

Bringing Ryan Kesler into this discussion only strengthens Eddie and Pucks point ... Ryan chose (was convinced???) to leave Ohio State after his freshman year because he wanted to develop and play pro

 

[juliansteed]

The problem in some cases for NCAA schools is that they are used as pawns in games/negotiations between other parties. Its often speculated that some kids will claim to be committed to a certain school when they really have no intentions of playing there at all, while secretly agreeing to play for a certain CHL team so that the other teams will pass on him in the draft. Or they play the NCAA card as a bargaining chip in order to get more compensation from the CHL team. It's hard to say exactly how much truth there is and I'm sure often people are wrongfully accused of this stuff, but I'm sure it happens at least once in a while. And sometimes they might consider both options but want to see which CHL team drafts them first. If team A drafts a guy, he may not consider CHL at all, while if team B drafts him then he will play CHL. I know there are a lot of CHL teams (especially the smaller market ones) who would like to see this stuff end just as badly as the NCAA teams. As a fan I'd like to see an end to this kind of stuff too, even though it appears that it might have benefitted my team. I'd rather see my team win on an equal playing field without speculation of this kind of stuff going on. It would be nice if players and their families could commit to 1 or the other, but easier said than done when you are talking about 15 or 16 year olds along with their (sometimes greedy) parents and agents trying to make what could prove to be the biggest decision of their lives.

 

[Destroydacre]

NHL watches as colleges wage war with Canadian junior hockey - NHL - Sporting News

for once Burke isn't just flapping his gums for exercise.

I dunno I still see a lot of flapping going to. To pretend like the CHL pays some (Burke's quotes make it sound like he believes it's more than just some) of the elite players but no college team ever pays any star to play in the NCAA instead of the CHL? That's awfully wishful (and ignorant) thinking.

To me the reason why so many players stay in the CHL is clear. First off, most players are Canadian. They're gonna want to stay in Canada. That's not true for every person, but for the majority I think it is. Secondly, which league would you want to play in? The one where you play ~35 games a season and you only have to win 4 games to win the championship? Or in the league where you get ~70 games plus you need to win 4 best of seven series to win the championship and then on top of that you get to play a tournament against the best teams in the country. The CHL puts the NCAA to shame in it's preparation for players to play in the AHL and the NHL. And for me personally, I enjoy watching the NCAA tournament. It's cool. But IMO the level of play top to bottom in the CHL is just so much better. I'm very thankful that I live in only 1 of 8 American cities that have this brand of hockey.

A final point is that the NCAA benefit of getting a college education while you don't in the CHL is a bunch of shit. For every season you put in at the WHL level you get a year of school covered. This scholarship can be applied to any university in Canada or the United States. So if you play 4 years in the CHL and aren't good enough to go pro, you can still get that college education free of charge. You can't play college hockey at an American institution (you are still eligible to play in Canada) because the NCAA is all butthurt about the CHL, but you still can get that education.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The problem in some cases for NCAA schools is that they are used as pawns in games/negotiations between other parties. Its often speculated that some kids will claim to be committed to a certain school when they really have no intentions of playing there at all, while secretly agreeing to play for a certain CHL team so that the other teams will pass on him in the draft.

It would be nice if players and their families could commit to 1 or the other, but easier said than done when you are talking about 15 or 16 year olds along with their (sometimes greedy) parents and agents trying to make what could prove to be the biggest decision of their lives.

I read this and all I could think of was Max Domi (son of Tie) and what he and his family pulled in the past 6 months


March 19th, 2011 (before the bantam draft):
Tie Domi: "I played junior but Leanne and I want our kid to go to college."

May 7, 2011: (Kingston drafts Max Domi)
“I spoke to Tie and his ex-wife Leanne (recently) and their decision is to go elsewhere right now,” Doug Gilmour said. “But this is junior hockey and there could be changes. If he wants to play in this league, it's kind of up to us. I'd love to have him.”

While his father was a tough guy on the ice, Max is a highly-skilled player. In 30 games with the Don Mills Flyers last season, Domi had 27 goals and 30 assists.

Gilmour is a longtime friend of Tie's and is very familiar with Max. Gilmour's sons, Jake and Tyson, who are younger than Max, also have played in the Don Mills organization.

Gilmour believes Domi would have gone higher if there wasn't a chance he'd head to the NCAA.


Yesterday:

LONDON, Ont. - The London Knights acquired centre Max Domi from the Kingston Frontenacs for three draft picks Tuesday.

The Knights shipped two 2012 second-round picks and a second-round selection in 2015 to the Frontenacs for the son of former NHL tough guy Tie Domi.

The five-foot-eight, 180-pound Max Domi plays a more skilled game than his father. He scored 27 goals and added 30 assists in 30 games last season with the Don Mills Flyers of the GTHL.

The 16-year-old was Kingston's first pick, eighth overall, in the 2011 Ontario Hockey League draft



Well Played Tie! "Theyre" calling him the new Carl Lindros

 

[puckhead]

A final point is that the NCAA benefit of getting a college education while you don't in the CHL is a bunch of shit. For every season you put in at the WHL level you get a year of school covered. This scholarship can be applied to any university in Canada or the United States. So if you play 4 years in the CHL and aren't good enough to go pro, you can still get that college education free of charge. You can't play college hockey at an American institution (you are still eligible to play in Canada) because the NCAA is all butthurt about the CHL, but you still can get that education.

interesting. i didn't know that.
of the players I know personally who have been in the CHL (not a huge sample, maybe 10 or 12), I can't think of a single one who has put that to use.

 

[dash]

interesting. i didn't know that.
of the players I know personally who have been in the CHL (not a huge sample, maybe 10 or 12), I can't think of a single one who has put that to use.

My nephew is currently putting it to good use...

 

[puckhead]

My nephew is currently putting it to good use...

your nephew is smarter than the lunkheads I know

 

[jstewismybastardson]

i think the year of service equals year of university is just a whl policy (i could be wrong) but it came in response of the criticism that the league was chewing up guys and spitting them out and the mounting number of players who were choosing NCAA over the WHL because of the education element.

and as far as the "under the table payments" that may be happening in the chl ... players do get per diems ... maybe some players make more ... who cares IMO ... i posted it last week ... lotta guys are making alot of money off these kids blood sweat and tears

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Canadian kids are going to go the CHL route for the most part. It's Canada's hockey breeding ground. It's what they know. A lot of American kids are going to the USHL & then on to College.

The USHL is growing by leaps & bounds & they really seem to be stressing going to college.

That being said most of the top players in college hockey are going to turn pro after 1 or 2 years depending on how much money the team that's drafted them is offering.