Give me a offensive and defensive player you think or hope breaks out this season

[SickFelonIsGOAT]

I would rather have luck than Wilson and a mid first round pick thrown in for good measure.

And I know a lot of other people would too. Hell, I probably would.

I have 2 frustrations with all this and I think that is the reason this "debate" went on for so long.....

1st, I don't think right now Luck should be getting as much hype as RG3 and Wilson. I think Luck still needs to show it in the NFL, and......

2. The same arguments that people use to prop up Luck, I could use to some extent in favor of Foles and I can't get away with it without people saying I am just being a homer. I really have watched Foles his whole college career and now in the pros and I see qualities in him that can make him a great QB, but people just say he sucks and call me a homer when I try to point that stuff out but people that argue for Luck get away with it, so it frustrates me. I am not saying that he will be better than Luck or even as good, just that the arguments aren't fair.

When last years draft was happening, there was a thread on the old board that I used to post on asking "who do you want your team to draft"..... The only person I listed was Foles. I was always an Eagles fan, and I was a Foles fan before he came to the Eagles. Everyone on that other board knows this about me. I am not saying I am an expert or anything, or that I will be right...... But just trying to show that it isn't homerism that is the basis of my argument.

Anyway, it was fun chatting with you all without this turning real bad, and it is good to see you all not just resorting to trolling now. That is why I left the last board.

 

[JDM]

I never said he sucks. I like the guy. But acting like he was really a first round prospect because he got some mentions before his last year then disappeared is a little extreme.

 

[Clayton]

Foles spent the vast majority of the time as a 3rd-5th round prospect. If Kiper or anyone else thought he was a first rounder, that was short lived.

 

[SonnyCID]

A safety or LB covering the slot receiver is very rare these days. It only happens when the offense is in hurry up and the DC misses a substitution and doesn't get his slot CB out there when he is still in base defense.

Out of curiosity, do you honestly believe that Lynch is a better RB than Peterson? A lot of you Seahawks seem to think that Harvin/Lynch is >>>>>>> Harvin/Peterson

If the combination of Harvin and Peterson never resulted in an unstoppable force, why are you so certain that Lynch and Harvin will just wreak havoc and take the league by storm??

No, Peterson is better. But Wilson/Lynch/Harvin is better than Ponder/Peterson/Harvin.

The offense in Seattle was quite formidable before the addition of Harvin with the weapons they had. Harvin is a cherry on top.

And I would take Harvin over almost any slot corner in the league 1 on 1.

 

[SickFelonIsGOAT]

I never said he sucks. I like the guy. But acting like he was really a first round prospect because he got some mentions before his last year then disappeared is a little extreme.

I was talking about others saying he sucks in previous arguments with people, and my point was is that while there may be an advantage for Luck over Foles....... I was merely saying that I could use a lot of the same arguments that people use for Luck and not get the same response if I use them for Foles as evidence by this thread and I am sure I didn't change any of your opinions. Even though, the only thing that people can really say to "prove" that Luck is better is the hype surrounding him and the fact that he was the 1st pick while Foles was a 3rd round pick.

 

[JDM]

Everything about luck looks like a pro style passer. Having a lot of attempts and teams knowing he was going to throw hurt his efficiency, but I don't think holding that against him is fair. With the exception of Reggie Wayne he had largely unproven weapons to work with and no running game. He put that team on his shoulders.

Efficiency will increase as he has a little more to work with, as well as, of course, getting more experience with NFL speed. I honestly think he did better than a lot of starters would have done in the situation he was placed in, though.

 

[threelittleturds]

No, Peterson is better. But Wilson/Lynch/Harvin is better than Ponder/Peterson/Harvin.

The offense in Seattle was quite formidable before the addition of Harvin with the weapons they had. Harvin is a cherry on top.

And I would take Harvin over almost any slot corner in the league 1 on 1.

What about Favre/Peterson/Harvin? vs Wilson/Lynch/Harvin?

That combination didn't result in anything either.

 

[JDM]

Favre wasn't that great in his prime. By the time he was in Minnesota they were better off giving Tavaris Jackson a shot.

 

[Clayton]

I do remember Mike Mayock saying that Luck wasn't a can't miss Peyton Manning. He said that he graded out around the same level as Sam Bradford and he wasn't ready to call him the can't miss that Kiper did.

 

[SonnyCID]

What about Favre/Peterson/Harvin? vs Wilson/Lynch/Harvin?

That combination didn't result in anything either.

Are you just trolling? The 2009 Vikings was a very nice offense. And like someone else pointed out Favre was 40 at the time. And the o-line in Minnesota fell off a cliff after that year.

 

[Money]

No, Peterson is better. But Wilson/Lynch/Harvin is better than Ponder/Peterson/Harvin.

The offense in Seattle was quite formidable before the addition of Harvin with the weapons they had. Harvin is a cherry on top.

And I would take Harvin over almost any slot corner in the league 1 on 1.

Huh? Seattle's offense was mediocre and now they have added a WR who has never topped 1,000 yards. That's not going to strike fear into too many people.

 

[Clayton]

Robert Quinn? He's going to break out of a 10+ sack year?

He could still get better but I have him pretty firmly in the 'already broken out' category

 

[SonnyCID]

Huh? Seattle's offense was mediocre and now they have added a WR who has never topped 1,000 yards. That's not going to strike fear into too many people.

Mediocre?

One of the best rushing attacks, top 5 in TOP, and one of the most efficient deep passers in the league. They may not have had the ultra gaudy numbers throughout the year, but they were one of the most efficient offenses in the league. You can look at overall stats if you like, I prefer looking at effectiveness. I suggest you just stick to talking about teams that you know about.

 

[Money]

Mediocre?

One of the best rushing attacks, top 5 in TOP, and one of the most efficient deep passers in the league. Just stick to talking about teams that you know about.

You can cherry pick stats all you want, but:

Total Offense #17 = Mediocre

I would entertain argument about them being better than mediocre, but "quite formidable"??? Ummm...no.

 

[cdumler7]

Mediocre?

One of the best rushing attacks, top 5 in TOP, and one of the most efficient deep passers in the league. They may not have had the ultra gaudy numbers throughout the year, but they were one of the most efficient offenses in the league. You can look at overall stats if you like, I prefer looking at effectiveness. I suggest you just stick to talking about teams that you know about.

You seem to have left out that they were 17th in total yards and 9th in scoring. They are a good offense and work well with the defense they have with keeping them off the field but I wouldn't consider them one of the top 5 offenses in the league at this time. Harvin has to prove he can stay on the field. Defensive Coordinators have had more time to figure out mobile quarterbacks so my guess is many of them will have a dip in production (look what Baltimore did with an extra week to prepare for Kaep).

 

[cdumler7]

And I know a lot of other people would too. Hell, I probably would.

I have 2 frustrations with all this and I think that is the reason this "debate" went on for so long.....

1st, I don't think right now Luck should be getting as much hype as RG3 and Wilson. I think Luck still needs to show it in the NFL, and......

2. The same arguments that people use to prop up Luck, I could use to some extent in favor of Foles and I can't get away with it without people saying I am just being a homer. I really have watched Foles his whole college career and now in the pros and I see qualities in him that can make him a great QB, but people just say he sucks and call me a homer when I try to point that stuff out but people that argue for Luck get away with it, so it frustrates me. I am not saying that he will be better than Luck or even as good, just that the arguments aren't fair.

When last years draft was happening, there was a thread on the old board that I used to post on asking "who do you want your team to draft"..... The only person I listed was Foles. I was always an Eagles fan, and I was a Foles fan before he came to the Eagles. Everyone on that other board knows this about me. I am not saying I am an expert or anything, or that I will be right...... But just trying to show that it isn't homerism that is the basis of my argument.

Anyway, it was fun chatting with you all without this turning real bad, and it is good to see you all not just resorting to trolling now. That is why I left the last board.

Couple of huge huge differences between Luck and Foles. The first being Luck actually lead to his team winning. Luck joined a worse team (finished last in the league the year before) and took them all the way to the playoffs. Not only that he was also a major reason why they were winning especially with his great play in the 4th quarter. Throw in with Foles and the Eagles teams still had to worry about the run game where nobody respected the run game of the Colts. Teams could play in nickel and dime defenses all game long only rushing 4 and knowing that there was no threat of the run and that the OL couldn't handle only 4 guys rushing.

 

[SonnyCID]

You seem to have left out that they were 17th in total yards and 9th in scoring. They are a good offense and work well with the defense they have with keeping them off the field but I wouldn't consider them one of the top 5 offenses in the league at this time. Harvin has to prove he can stay on the field. Defensive Coordinators have had more time to figure out mobile quarterbacks so my guess is many of them will have a dip in production (look what Baltimore did with an extra week to prepare for Kaep).

Raw numbers can be decieving. Rayens fans should know that with having Joe Flacco as their QB.

Wilson is à very mobile QB but thats not all that defines him. Hes also à great décision maker and pocket passer. I would bank on the Seahawks offense picking up where they are left off simply because the team is built to compliment itself like you said.... And they have à smart QB.

 

[cdumler7]

Raw numbers can be decieving. Rayens fans should know that with having Joe Flacco as their QB.

Wilson is à very mobile QB but thats not all that defines him. Hes also à great décision maker and pocket passer. I would bank on the Seahawks offense picking up where they are left off simply because the team is built to compliment itself like you said.... And they have à smart QB.

I understand his mobility is not all that defines him. What I was getting at is defenses will be better this year of forcing quarterbacks like Wilson to have to pass from the pocket. He is a decent pocket passer but his best plays came when he was asked to scramble and make a play. Teams will work to limit that.

Teams will also force Wilson to have to settle for the underneath routes and see if they can make him uncomfortable having to settle for less than what he wants.

 

[SonnyCID]

I understand his mobility is not all that defines him. What I was getting at is defenses will be better this year of forcing quarterbacks like Wilson to have to pass from the pocket. He is a decent pocket passer but his best plays came when he was asked to scramble and make a play. Teams will work to limit that.

Teams will also force Wilson to have to settle for the underneath routes and see if they can make him uncomfortable having to settle for less than what he wants.

I agree, défenses will adjust as will the Seahawks offense. The Ravens came out with à great gameplan for Kap, but once theniners adjustments started working the offense was very effective. I was the same thing in the SEA-ATL, SEA-WAS and the SEA-STL games. Défenses can adjust to any offense, but in order todo so you make your défense vulnérable in other areas.

Wilson's highlight plays came from out of the pocket, but his overall numbers were better in it. By the end of the season he was monster on 3rd down more because or his pocket presence, which included many underneath routes to Miller and Tâte, and now Harvin.

 

[Lonewate44]

Redskins:

Hankerson Receiver

Rambo Rookie Safety


And for good Measure.....Orakpo will stay healhty and has his sights on DPOY.....so gotta go with my boy on that!!!! I can only hope!!!