Giants Untouchables

[SFGRTB]

As per ColinCoby

Who in the Giants organization is currently untouchable?

I'd say:

Lincecum
Cain
MadBum
Posey
Pablo
Romo

I don't think any of teh minor leaguers should be untouchable because on a team that is unlikely to sign many FA's, prospects are more likely to be dealt.

 

[CameronFrye]

As per ColinCoby

Who in the Giants organization is currently untouchable?

I'd say:

Lincecum
Cain
MadBum
Posey
Pablo
Romo

I don't think any of teh minor leaguers should be untouchable because on a team that is unlikely to sign many FA's, prospects are more likely to be dealt.

No one is untouchable.

The Giants' top players, and the guys who would definitely take a king's ransom are:

1. MadBum
2. Posey
3. Lincecum

Everyone else can be had. I know a lot of you will scream that I left Cain off that list, but I would deal Cain a lot sooner than I would deal Bumgarner.

Panda is an icon in SF, but he's not even one of the 3 or 4 best 3B in the league. And with his shape (currently "round") he's not going to get any better. He can hit and he has a glove. But unless he drops 50 pounds and keeps it off for 3 straight years, dude is going to be David Ortiz by 2015. And I don't mean Ortiz like 35 bombs and 120 RBIs. I mean Ortiz like full-time DH.

 

[SFGRTB]

I'd call Pablo a top 5 3B in MLB easily. Longoria, Beltre, ARod, Zimmerman, Pablo. Stats back it up, he's one of the best defensively and offensively. He qualified 3rd in WAR among MLB 3rd basemen last year as well and since 2009 is 5th in total WAR.

Though I see your point on the, but who's really going to offer what the Giants want for the guys on the list? Unlikely, therefore I'd consider them untouchable.

 

[SportsTIPS]

Anybody can be traded if the price is right.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Anybody cannot be had that is ridiculous. This team is one season removed from the WS and two injuries removed from making some noise last year.

Untouchable:

Timmeh
Cain
Bumgarner
Wilson
Romo
Lopez
Casilla

Panda
Posey

These guys are all untouchable to me. I woulda put Ramirez on that list too.

This team is coming back next year to make some noise (barring anymore goddamn catastrophic injuries). We don't need a fucking rebuild here we don't even need to replace the tires, just an oil check a tuneup and a little fucking tree.

 

[msgkings322]

Anybody cannot be had that is ridiculous. This team is one season removed from the WS and two injuries removed from making some noise last year.

Untouchable:

Timmeh
Cain
Bumgarner
Wilson
Romo
Lopez
Casilla

Panda
Posey

These guys are all untouchable to me. I woulda put Ramirez on that list too.

This team is coming back next year to make some noise (barring anymore goddamn catastrophic injuries). We don't need a fucking rebuild here we don't even need to replace the tires, just an oil check a tuneup and a little fucking tree.

Oh lord that's just silly.

And yes we do need to replace the tires (bats). Even before Posey went down we weren't scoring enough.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Oh lord that's just silly.

And yes we do need to replace the tires (bats). Even before Posey went down we weren't scoring enough.

Pretty sure we were in 1st. That's scoring enough. We weren't scoring enough in 2010 either look what that got us.

2011 was different though I'll admit it, Huff stunk, Rowand was here, Tejada was allowed to play. I see a reversal for Huff a better year for Nate and Belt, Posey and Franchez back looks like enough offense to me.

Who on that above list (besides Ramirez) isn't untouchable then?

 

[msgkings322]

Pretty sure we were in 1st. That's scoring enough. We weren't scoring enough in 2010 either look what that got us.

2011 was different though I'll admit it, Huff stunk, Rowand was here, Tejada was allowed to play. I see a reversal for Huff a better year for Nate and Belt, Posey and Franchez back looks like enough offense to me.

Who on that above list (besides Ramirez) isn't untouchable then?

Like others have said, for the right return really NO ONE is.

But realistically, like the offer would have to be so crazy no one would make it, to me it's Posey,Timmy,MadBum,Cain, maybe Panda. Relievers aren't ever untouchable.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Like others have said, for the right return really NO ONE is.

But realistically, like the offer would have to be so crazy no one would make it, to me it's Posey,Timmy,MadBum,Cain, maybe Panda. Relievers aren't ever untouchable.

Without the dopest BP on this team the way it's built we'd be battling the fucking padres for last place. That is why I say they are untouchable.

 

[jingo]

Without the dopest BP on this team the way it's built we'd be battling the fucking padres for last place. That is why I say they are untouchable.

IMHO, before replacing any of the the untouchable, the damn near untouchable, or any of the integral parts that are extremely important for us to get back to the World Series, I think we would need to know who is being offered. For example, if at the beginning of last year the Cardinals offered Pujols for Cain or Bum there might have been a deal. There may be other examples of someone else's "untouchable" for your "untouchable" that makes sense.

There may also be two kinds of "untouchables". The first kind are those players that you refuse to even talk trade about under any circumstance. The second kind are those players that would be available at a price that no one else is willing to pay.

 

[SFGRTB]

Bullpen should be far from untouchable (short of a few guys) because that is arguably the simplest position to fill from within. You don't have 5 possible Buster Posey's waiting in the minors, or Tim Lincecum's. But you can damn find plenty of Ramon Ramirez's.

 

[Epic Voidfield]

And with his shape (currently "round") he's not going to get any better. He can hit and he has a glove.

Le wut...? How do you come up with this stuff? You've got to let me borrow your magic 8-ball. I got ripped off!

 

[ColinCoby]

Le wut...? How do you come up with this stuff? You've got to let me borrow your magic 8-ball. I got ripped off!

Panda is again working out in Arizona this offseason and just had the eye surgery. He put up some damn good numbers last year while playing injured in a shitty lineup. My 8-ball says, if healthy, he has a monster year this year.

 

[ColinCoby]

IMHO, before replacing any of the the untouchable, the damn near untouchable, or any of the integral parts that are extremely important for us to get back to the World Series, I think we would need to know who is being offered. For example, if at the beginning of last year the Cardinals offered Pujols for Cain or Bum there might have been a deal. There may be other examples of someone else's "untouchable" for your "untouchable" that makes sense.

There may also be two kinds of "untouchables". The first kind are those players that you refuse to even talk trade about under any circumstance. The second kind are those players that would be available at a price that no one else is willing to pay.

What a great thread idea!

Good points. And I think "damn near untouchable" is a better way to put it. Under normal circumstances, there is no way the Giants trade Cain, Panda, etc., but if we were offered Braun...

BTW: do you enjoy Sonoma Aroma As much as I do?

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Bullpen should be far from untouchable (short of a few guys) because that is arguably the simplest position to fill from within. You don't have 5 possible Buster Posey's waiting in the minors, or Tim Lincecum's. But you can damn find plenty of Ramon Ramirez's.

You cannot damn find plenty of Ramon Ramirez' ... he was 39th in ERA out of relievers with a minimum of 40 IP last season. There are 30 teams so 29 other bullpens out there he's a setup guy. You cannot damn find setup guys just lounging around in the minors.

As for the rest of our BP last season we had 2 in the top 10 and 3 in the top 50 and that doesn't even include the Beard.

I would argue that you are dead wrong that is is simple to fill these shoes, because well that's just dead wrong. We can easily find a mop up guy or a project or a gas can down there - even our mop up guy (Mota) was better than everybody else's - but you cannot easily find this BP anywhere.

I will concede that mskings is right that if you can't trade the 6th guy in your BP who the hell can you trade! But the rest of our BP should not be expendable.

Did we not win 86 games with that shit offense last year? without our #2 and #4 hitters for most of the season? For this team at this time the way it is currently built - the rest of the pitching staff should be untouchable except for fucking Zito who is untouchable for another reason.

 

[tzill]

No one is untouchable.

The Giants' top players, and the guys who would definitely take a king's ransom are:

1. MadBum
2. Posey
3. Lincecum

Everyone else can be had. I know a lot of you will scream that I left Cain off that list, but I would deal Cain a lot sooner than I would deal Bumgarner.

Panda is an icon in SF, but he's not even one of the 3 or 4 best 3B in the league. And with his shape (currently "round") he's not going to get any better. He can hit and he has a glove. But unless he drops 50 pounds and keeps it off for 3 straight years, dude is going to be David Ortiz by 2015. And I don't mean Ortiz like 35 bombs and 120 RBIs. I mean Ortiz like full-time DH.

Cam, I love ya, but that statement is just insane.

Panda had the 10th highest WAR in ALL OF BASEBALL last year for position players. And he missed a month. Had he been healthy, he'd likely have had 7.5 WAR. That would have made him fourth, behind only Kemp, Bautista, and Braun. The only full time 3B in the majors with a better year was Longoria (Bautista mostly played OF). Even then, Longoria was only slightly better (6.3 WAR to 6.1 WAR) with an additional month of play.

In the NL, the next closest 3B was Ramirez with 3.6 WAR.

In other words, not even freaking close.

A better argument could be made that Pablo is the best 3B in the game today than that he's "not one of the 3-4 best in the league."

I'm thinking someone spiked your coffee with LSD.

 

[filosofy29]

Cam, I love ya, but that statement is just insane.

Panda had the 10th highest WAR in ALL OF BASEBALL last year for position players. And he missed a month. Had he been healthy, he'd likely have had 7.5 WAR. That would have made him fourth, behind only Kemp, Bautista, and Braun. The only full time 3B in the majors with a better year was Longoria (Bautista mostly played OF). Even then, Longoria was only slightly better (6.3 WAR to 6.1 WAR) with an additional month of play.

In the NL, the next closest 3B was Ramirez with 3.6 WAR.

In other words, not even freaking close.

A better argument could be made that Pablo is the best 3B in the game today than that he's "not one of the 3-4 best in the league."

I'm thinking someone spiked your coffee with LSD.

Maybe he got too much of Colin's Sonoma Aroma?



Seriously though, Panda (currently) is a top 5 3B in MLB.

 

[ColinCoby]

Maybe he got too much of Colin's Sonoma Aroma?



Seriously though, Panda (currently) is a top 5 3B in MLB.

Bastard.

Damn near untouchable because of ability: Cain, Timmeh, Panda, Posey, Mad.

Damn near untouchable because of youth and club control: Posey, Bum.

Damn near untouchable because they are the face of the franchise: Timmeh

Damn near untouchable because they help the organization sell a lot of crappy merchandise: Panda, Timmeh, Wilson (Belt?)

Damn near untouchable because Mrs. tzill probably has a crush on him: Crawford.

 

[TKellion]

Untouchable because of ability: Cain,Lincecum,Sandoval,Posey,Bumgarner.

Untouchable because They are the future:Brown,Belt,Panik,Orepesa,Crick,Susac

The Cain and Bumgarner are career Giants in my eyes.The rest could be had at a price.Brown,Belt and Panik have to prove they can hit MLB pitching.We will see about Crick,Orepesa and Susac

 

[tzill]

Bastard.

Damn near untouchable because of ability: Cain, Timmeh, Panda, Posey, Mad.

Damn near untouchable because of youth and club control: Posey, Bum.

Damn near untouchable because they are the face of the franchise: Timmeh

Damn near untouchable because they help the organization sell a lot of crappy merchandise: Panda, Timmeh, Wilson (Belt?)

Damn near untouchable because Mrs. tzill probably has a crush on him: Crawford.

Mrs. TZ is blissfully unaware of Stamos, but does from time to time ask: that Frenchy guy who played for the Warriors, where is he now?

Mikhail Pietrus, I do not miss thee.