Gerrit Cole Promoted.

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Breaking News: ( Per, 93.7 FM The Fan, Pittsburgh )

Gerrit Cole has been promoted to AA Altoona. Cole will make his 1st start for the Curve on Wednesday.

Great news!

Burgh

 

[element1286]

Nice, surprised he was promoted actually....seems more aggressive than usual for the Pirates.

 

[steelparrot]

Excellent, he could be a major shot in the arm next June.

 

[pixburgher66]

I think he may get a trip to Indy by the end of the season. Especially if some of the other arms move up (which they should after Lincoln's start today).

 

[sychmd]

he should get a chance in sept to see if he has it to part of our 2013 rotation at some point. even if it is a 5 in 2013, we need him to step up and develop the mental mindset necessary.

 

[element1286]

It is very very unlikely he gets a shot as a September call up this year, since he isn't on the 40-man roster, and a move would had to be made to put him on it.

 

[sychmd]

i am sure we will know if correia is in our plan or not as he will be at the end of his 2 year contract and cole for correia seems like a no brainer if we havent traded correia before that.

 

[Etrius24]

I look forward to seeing him in spring training if he does well in AA this year and then look for him maybe ( based on performance) next june.

 

[Illinest]

I just watched a little interview featuring Cole after he got to Altoona. He went out of his way to compliment the stadium. It's just a little thing but I like that he seems to value his relationships with the media and with the ballclub. I guess I was expecting less humility.

He's definitely growing on me as a prospect. I was slow to warm up to him because I had pegged Rendon so early but then Rendon got injured and had a weak season and it started to become clear that Cole was the guy. I was looking for reasons NOT to pick Cole for a while, if you know what I mean.

 

[magnumo]

I just watched a little interview featuring Cole after he got to Altoona. He went out of his way to compliment the stadium. It's just a little thing but I like that he seems to value his relationships with the media and with the ballclub. I guess I was expecting less humility.

He's definitely growing on me as a prospect. I was slow to warm up to him because I had pegged Rendon so early but then Rendon got injured and had a weak season and it started to become clear that Cole was the guy. I was looking for reasons NOT to pick Cole for a while, if you know what I mean.

Cole is growing on me, as well. Of course, consistently good performance will do that.

Previously, I was skeptical of Cole because he seemed to be much more hittable than a guy with his stuff should be. But perhaps the Pirates' emphasis on fastball command, especially keeping the ball down in the strike zone, is paying dividends for Cole.

It was nice to see that Taillon had an excellent game in his last start as well, after struggling for several consecutive starts.

 

[sychmd]

i am not very big on this FB command mentality then you move up.
for all pitchers, that is an important part of most of their development in some way, but it seems as if the pirates are so obsessed and singularly focused that it becomes a detriment. let me explain.
these pitchers, that make it into the minors system, have all been highly successful. they have egos, but often fragile ones, but mainly built on the ability to get people out, and often times easily.
when that is stripped away and they get hammered, now their foundation is rocked and that is pretty internally devastating.
now most of you tough guys will say, well they are learning other skills that will be even a better foundation, and that is true. but totally stripping someone of their competency without allowing them to use some of their other resources to defend them is pretty destructive.
if they get past that right of humiliation and passage, command their fastball better, and move up, many of them still have in the back of their mind how easily it was all stripped away, and they really arent as great as they thought, so a lot of self-doubt, they will quickly out me, and other negative or limited ceiling thinking will follow.

that is one main reason why i believe the pirates have a difficult time developing pitchers and when they get away from the regime that was willing to humiliate them right off the bat in the system, and go to an organization that allows them to use their strengths and branch out from there, they have a better chance of flourishing.

sort of like the bobby knight school of player development. no real stars come out of his system although he had his pick of the cream of the crop, except one, isaiah who left early.

it's basic psychology but not sure the pirates get it.

 

[magnumo]

Reply to sychmd

I believe I understand what you're saying, but.....

- What leads you to believe that the Pirates are "obsessed" with fast ball command? That's a pretty strong word.

- I believe fast ball command is critical (except for knuckleball pitchers) for getting major league hitters out (as I believe you acknowledged), and it seems that pitchers developing such command is better earlier rather than later.

- It should be possible to emphasize fastball command for young pitchers without damaging them psychologically.

- Since the team has professional psychologists on staff, I would expect them to have the capability to deal with pitcher development in a way that takes into account the psychological hazards you describe.

 

[Etrius24]

Many organizations focus on fastball command...For example the Braves have been preaching fastball control for the last 2 decades...Throw the fastball down and away...That is what they beat into the heads of all their young pitchers...And it works

Sure it is nice if the pitcher has 3 or 4 quality pitches... but without good command of the fastball.... you have basically nothing. You throw the other pitches mostly to set up the fastball... curve inside fastball away... or vice versa...

I hate to sound like Casey Stengal here... but this is a simple game... a pitcher's job is to throw strikes..

 

[element1286]

i am not very big on this FB command mentality then you move up.
for all pitchers, that is an important part of most of their development in some way, but it seems as if the pirates are so obsessed and singularly focused that it becomes a detriment. let me explain.
these pitchers, that make it into the minors system, have all been highly successful. they have egos, but often fragile ones, but mainly built on the ability to get people out, and often times easily.
when that is stripped away and they get hammered, now their foundation is rocked and that is pretty internally devastating.
now most of you tough guys will say, well they are learning other skills that will be even a better foundation, and that is true. but totally stripping someone of their competency without allowing them to use some of their other resources to defend them is pretty destructive.
if they get past that right of humiliation and passage, command their fastball better, and move up, many of them still have in the back of their mind how easily it was all stripped away, and they really arent as great as they thought, so a lot of self-doubt, they will quickly out me, and other negative or limited ceiling thinking will follow.

that is one main reason why i believe the pirates have a difficult time developing pitchers and when they get away from the regime that was willing to humiliate them right off the bat in the system, and go to an organization that allows them to use their strengths and branch out from there, they have a better chance of flourishing.

sort of like the bobby knight school of player development. no real stars come out of his system although he had his pick of the cream of the crop, except one, isaiah who left early.

it's basic psychology but not sure the pirates get it.

I hear what you are saying, but I think the degree which the Pirates actually limit the pitchers is carefully considered, and it's not like they can't throw offspeed stuff, just limit how many they throw per game. I am sure there will be guys who flame out because they can't adapt, but there is risk in the opposite direction that a guy can coast on his offspeed stuff until AA/AAA when fastball command actually matters.

My guess is the program is much more useful for the high school pitchers, who have never been challenged, and got swings and misses just because they threw hard.

Also, like Mags said, I can't imagine a professional organization who's job is to develop professional baseball players didn't look at all the angles.

 

[sychmd]

it seems like the pirates dont allow the pitchers to use their other pitches very much until they learn to command the fastball. they also will not let them advance until they command the fastball and can really spot it and move it around.

FB command is important for most, but for some, it is not their out pitch, so they dont have to command the FB. they need to learn to control their #1 pitch.

learning to command the FB can happen more smoothly without so much psychological vulnerability and beatdown when you allow them to still use their other pitches fairly regularly and consistently, but with a bit of a focus on FB command(placement, movement, in and out, up and down, and changing speeds off it.)

most teams hire psychologists that are yes boys because baseball is still run by good ole boys, lives on tradition and routines, and most of the people involved are ex baseball players. baseball players are the least educated of the 4 major sports and some of the least intellectual. because of the minors cloistering effect in small minor leagu cities, it is such a pecking order and breaking ranks in any way is being quite an outlier and is usually frowned upon. so they look for company men and hire consultants that are company men.

those are my thoughts as a former baseball player, a pitcher, and a psychologist who used to do a little(very little) sports psychiatry and has worked with others. Now i develop faith based rehab programs around the county and still work with some premier athletes in that regard.

 

[sychmd]

sports psychology is still the most underinvested and developed aspect of sports. so unfortunately, even tho you would think teams have addressed "sports is 90% mental" with the approp expertise, they unfortunately havent. some of that is our fault because the behavioral health community doesnt have treatment paradigms and protocols as uniform as tommy john surgery, but our field is way more complex than the ulnar ligament or ACL.

the pitchers job isnt to throw strikes, or fastball command. the pitchers job is to get people out consistently. they do that by keeping them off balance.
the scouts and coaches get so obsessed with the guy that pumps the low 90's in HS and they try to make him a pitcher (see allie) as opposed to looking for good pitchers with a blend of pitches who actually know how to pitch.
the backwardness of this process has led to a lack of pitching depth in hte majors and minors because you are only looking for high velocity pitchers and giving them the message that the FB is the out pitch and their bread and butter when it doesnt have to be.
pro hitters, AA and up, can hit most FB. that is not what will make a successful pitcher.

 

[magnumo]

Reply to sychmd

Thanks much for expanding upon your previous assertions. I have a better feel for where you're coming from and why. Although I remain skeptical of some of your opinions, you certainly have provided food for thought and future consideration.

Your assertion which I find most interesting is that baseball teams hire psychologists who are "yes" men, rather than competent professionals.

- On one hand, that seems ludicrous in view of the obvious need to deal with the development of athletes not only physcially, but psychologically as well.

- On the other, I've experienced many managers who surrounded themselves with "yes" men, and some didn't realize they were doing that. The good news is that, once it was pointed out (and they became convinced it was the truth), many relented and worked toward fixing the situation. Success in that regard was usually determined by their sincerity in wanting to improve as managers and leaders.

I gotta believe that MLB has its share of enlightened managers..... those who select and hire people for the right reasons and let them do their jobs. If I had a means to investigate that further, I definitely would.

 

[Darkstone42]

Fastball command was a big deal for Cole in particular, and the focus on fastball command, in my opinion, is why he has been so good this year.

Last year, Cole's stuff was fantastic, and yet he was hittable. Why? I have read reports that it's because he left pitches, and in particular his fastball, up in the zone. Focusing on locating the fastball has already had marked positive effects on his performance.