Eagles and the Browns trade results

[PhoenixEagles1]

So far the trade has worked out like below. Should the Browns just taken Wentz. THis is a breakdown of what the Browns got including the additional trade downs and picking up of more picks.

Philly got Carson Wentz and Donnell Pumphrey (who looks like a bust so far)

Browns got...
2016 first-round pick (No. 15, Corey Coleman, WR)

2016: 10 Games 33 Receptions 413 YDS 3 TDs
2017: 3 Games 6 Receptions 1 TD (so far)

2016 third-round pick (No. 76, Shon Coleman, OL)

2016: 7 Games
2017: 4 Games (so far)

2017 second-round pick (No. 52, DeShone Kizer, QB)

2017: 5 Games 0-5 81/159 50.9% 851 YDS 3 TDs 9 INTs 49.5 Passer Rating

2016 third-round pick (No. 93, Cody Kessler, QB)

2016: 8 Games 0-8 128/195 65.6% 1380 YDS 6 TDs 2 INTs 92.3 Passer Rating

2016 fourth-round pick (No. 129, Derrick Kindred, S)

2016: 12 Games 5 Passes Defensed 30 Tackles 14 Assists
2017: 5 Games 1 INT 2 Passes Defensed 13 Tackles 6 Assists

2016 fifth-round pick (No. 168, Spencer Drango, OL)

2016: 16 Games
2017: 5 Games

2016 fourth-round pick (No. 114, Ricardo Louis, WR)

2016: 18 Receptions 205 YDS
2017: 15 Receptions 204 YDS

2016 fifth-round pick (No. 154, Jordan Payton, WR)

2016: 1 Reception 3 YDS

2017 first-round pick (No. 25, Jabrill Peppers, S)

2017: 5 Games 1 Pass Defensed 1 Fumble Recovery 11 Punt Returns 66 YDS
7 Kick Returns 158 YDS

 

[Fountain City Blues]

No. Browns did 100% the right thing as a matter of process. If they fucked up the picks, that's completely on them. The idea Kizer is going to be a bust after 5 games is just as dumb as the Alex Smith = Carson Wentz takes last year because of air yards and YPA...

 

[fastforward]

The Browns made a good trade with the Eagles and they skinned the Titans. Everyone has their own idea or formula of what they think picks are worth and what makes a fair trade. I calculated the Browns traded 2656.55 points of value to the Eagles and got 2778 points of value in return. 104.6% to 95.6%. Arbitrarily I have 90% as a minimum fair trade threshold so both sides could legitimately consider this trade to be good for them. The Browns-Titans trade was much more one-sided.

What happens with the picks is a much more complicated story. Actual picks should be compared to alternative pick choices available at the time, given the knowledge at the time.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

So far the trade has worked out like below. Should the Browns just taken Wentz. THis is a breakdown of what the Browns got including the additional trade downs and picking up of more picks.

Philly got Carson Wentz and Donnell Pumphrey (who looks like a bust so far)

Browns got...
2016 first-round pick (No. 15, Corey Coleman, WR)

2016: 10 Games 33 Receptions 413 YDS 3 TDs
2017: 3 Games 6 Receptions 1 TD (so far)

2016 third-round pick (No. 76, Shon Coleman, OL)

2016: 7 Games
2017: 4 Games (so far)

2017 second-round pick (No. 52, DeShone Kizer, QB)

2017: 5 Games 0-5 81/159 50.9% 851 YDS 3 TDs 9 INTs 49.5 Passer Rating

2016 third-round pick (No. 93, Cody Kessler, QB)

2016: 8 Games 0-8 128/195 65.6% 1380 YDS 6 TDs 2 INTs 92.3 Passer Rating

2016 fourth-round pick (No. 129, Derrick Kindred, S)

2016: 12 Games 5 Passes Defensed 30 Tackles 14 Assists
2017: 5 Games 1 INT 2 Passes Defensed 13 Tackles 6 Assists

2016 fifth-round pick (No. 168, Spencer Drango, OL)

2016: 16 Games
2017: 5 Games

2016 fourth-round pick (No. 114, Ricardo Louis, WR)

2016: 18 Receptions 205 YDS
2017: 15 Receptions 204 YDS

2016 fifth-round pick (No. 154, Jordan Payton, WR)

2016: 1 Reception 3 YDS

2017 first-round pick (No. 25, Jabrill Peppers, S)

2017: 5 Games 1 Pass Defensed 1 Fumble Recovery 11 Punt Returns 66 YDS
7 Kick Returns 158 YDS

The trade made sense on both ends but you can't evaluate how the Browns made out just yet. Usually takes about 4 yrs to determine how a draft class pans out. Weintz is the real deal IMO but lets revisit the Browns draft in a couple of years and see if Weintz keeps preforming at a high level.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Is Carson Wentz winning games?????

Yes

Are the Browns winning games????

No


There's your results, simple math.

 

[Iggloo]

Of course, when you sit around and judge a trade like this, getting the picks looks really good on paper. But can your organization actually capitalize on them? That's a legitimate question. For the Browns, the answer is clearly, NO. They lack the scouting chops to turn a bevy of picks into a bonanza. They will end up with a pocketful of lint and the Eagles will end up with a franchise QB.

 

[Iggloo]

How the Browns handed Carson Wentz to the Eagles and Deshaun Watson to the Texans before solving their own QB problem

 

[jarntt]

What would Philly have done if the Rams took Wentz? Did they like Goff just as much? Otherwise it was an even riskier trade

 

[cdumler7]

What would Philly have done if the Rams took Wentz? Did they like Goff just as much? Otherwise it was an even riskier trade

I would say you only make that trade if you are comfortable with both QB's just in case a team changes their mind last minute.

 

[Iggloo]

What would Philly have done if the Rams took Wentz? Did they like Goff just as much? Otherwise it was an even riskier trade

They have said they liked Goff too and would have taken him. But...it sounds like they knew it would be Wentz, that the Rams were set on Goff, which is why the deal happened before the pick was on the clock.

The Rams had apparently told people they were not entertaining trades down, they were taking Goff. This factored into the deal happening, because the Browns liked Goff but didn't like Wentz, whom their brain trust decided would never be a top-20 QB in the NFL.

The Browns didn't think Carson Wentz was a top 20 NFL QB, team executive tells club's radio partner

For the record, Wentz is a top 5 QB right now, statistically speaking. He is second in the NFL in yards and tied for first in passing TDs. He is clearly going to be a top 20 qb and then some.

 

[jarntt]

They have said they liked Goff too and would have taken him. But...it sounds like they knew it would be Wentz, that the Rams were set on Goff, which is why the deal happened before the pick was on the clock.

The Rams had apparently told people they were not entertaining trades down, they were taking Goff. This factored into the deal happening, because the Browns liked Goff but didn't like Wentz, whom their brain trust decided would never be a top-20 QB in the NFL.

The Browns didn't think Carson Wentz was a top 20 NFL QB, team executive tells club's radio partner

For the record, Wentz is a top 5 QB right now, statistically speaking. He is second in the NFL in yards and tied for first in passing TDs. He is clearly going to be a top 20 qb and then some.

He is having a very good year so far and top 20 QB seems a stone cold lock barring injury.
Of course playing an extra game helps to be #2 in yards though...He is 11th in yards per game

 

[Iggloo]

Yeah, no doubt, I think that is why he is tied for TDs too, he would otherwise be ranked lower of course.

 

[molsaniceman]

He is having a very good year so far and top 20 QB seems a stone cold lock barring injury.
Of course playing an extra game helps to be #2 in yards though...He is 11th in yards per game

carson palmer is 3rd in yds so that makes him 3rd best QB Am i right?

 

[Iggloo]

Rating or judging players is inherently subjective, and statistics are not a perfect measure. I think we can all objectively agree with that, just like we can objectively agree that you are a moron.

 

[jarntt]

Yeah, no doubt, I think that is why he is tied for TDs too, he would otherwise be ranked lower of course.

Still playing great. I'm just not a big stat guy as the be all end all. I view it as the fantasy football/ESPN effect. My eyes tell me Wentz is playing great so far. Hope that ends very quickly

 

[PhillyGreen]

Still playing great. I'm just not a big stat guy as the be all end all. I view it as the fantasy football/ESPN effect. My eyes tell me Wentz is playing great so far. Hope that ends very quickly

For someone that whines about me posting in Cowboys threads you sure do spend a lot of time in threads about the Eagles.

 

[jarntt]

For someone that whines about me posting in Cowboys threads you sure do spend a lot of time in threads about the Eagles.

Yeah, a week is the same as months
And when you quote a post where I say Wentz is playing great it pretty much tells the difference between us.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Yeah, a week is the same as months
And when you quote a post where I say Wentz is playing great it pretty much tells the difference between us.

No because all my posts are not about bashing the Cowboys. Let me see....I said they were going to win the division....I said Dak was going to be a stud in the NFL and a top 5 QB in the next few years. I did nothing but praise Zeke about his ability on the field...said he should have been ROY and a MVP candidate. It is not where we are different but the fact that you whine because I post in Cowboys threads. Please don't sit here and try to feed bullshit that you say nothing but good things about the Eagles.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

The Browns made a good trade with the Eagles and they skinned the Titans. Everyone has their own idea or formula of what they think picks are worth and what makes a fair trade. I calculated the Browns traded 2656.55 points of value to the Eagles and got 2778 points of value in return. 104.6% to 95.6%. Arbitrarily I have 90% as a minimum fair trade threshold so both sides could legitimately consider this trade to be good for them. The Browns-Titans trade was much more one-sided.

What happens with the picks is a much more complicated story. Actual picks should be compared to alternative pick choices available at the time, given the knowledge at the time.

Draft pick points are fine at the time of the trade, but in hindsight the Eagles got gifted a franchise QB and the Browns are still being the Browns.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

And we all know damn well that even if the Browns don't make that trade or whatever they try, they will somehow find a way to screw up on draft day. Or find a way to mess up players like Wentz. The Browns are what they are and it doesn't appear to be changing year after year.