Drafting OL

[clyde_carbon]

The philosophy going forward should be no OL in the first round, sans LTs. It's been proven time and time again that Guards, Centers, and Right Tackles drafted after the first round, or even the second round, are just as effective as the high draft picks.

 

[Flyingiguana]

late 1st/early 2nd looks like the sweet spot. 3rd and 4th for depth and the occasional starter. can't believe a full line was drafted over the past few seasons and this is the result. 4 of the 5 is still around

 

[clyde_carbon]

Teams drafting late in the first are teams who went deep into the playoffs, so I might make an exception in that situation looking for a final cog in the offense. Early second is still pretty much out of the question for me, though.

 

[mem49er]

With the way these guys are playing, I would hope that there is significant turnover on the line this off-season. Staley has been in long decline, Rachal is the Alex Smith of the o-line (inconsistent and disappointing), Goodwin (bleh) and still not sold on Davis.

I agree that they don't have to spend high picks but we can't keep this group as is.

 

[deep9er]

The philosophy going forward should be no OL in the first round, sans LTs. It's been proven time and time again that Guards, Centers, and Right Tackles drafted after the first round, or even the second round, are just as effective as the high draft picks.

while i get the gist of where you're going but we can't make a blanket statement like that? anyways, in the history of NFL drafts, not many OL (sans LT) get drafted round 1.

its similar to saying don't ever draft QB #1 again. or never draft a WR from UCLA again.

 

[clyde_carbon]

while i get the gist of where you're going but we can't make a blanket statement like that? anyways, in the history of NFL drafts, not many OL (sans LT) get drafted round 1.

its similar to saying don't ever draft QB #1 again. or never draft a WR from UCLA again.

Not even close. The majority of the good QBs in the league were first round picks. That's not true for OL.

 

[deep9er]

Not even close. The majority of the good QBs in the league were first round picks. That's not true for OL.

ok, but we still shouldn't have a blanket 'philosophy' like that.

again, we're talking about a few linemen anyway, maybe one O-linemen (sans LT) a draft?

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Biggest reason the Davis/Potty draft made me violently angry. You get RTs and Gs later in the draft.

 

[imac_21]

I think most here know how I feel about this topic. Clyde is 100% right.

 

[NinerSickness]

Gotta disagree with you both. If a RT, C or G is good enough you take him. If he's the BVA take him. It all depends on who else is there.

 

[imac_21]

Gotta disagree with you both. If a RT, C or G is good enough you take him. If he's the BVA take him. It all depends on who else is there.

Except he's not the BVA. Ever.

 

[NinerSickness]

Except he's not the BVA. Ever.

So Steve Hutchinson was followed by Jeff Backus, Casey Hampton, adam Archuletta, Nate Clements, Will Allen, Deuce Mcallister, Willie Middlebrooks, Freddie Mitchell, Jamar Fletcher, Michael Bennett, Derrick Gibson, Ryan Pickett, Reggie Wayne & Todd heap in the 1st round.

How many of those players were a better value than Hutch'? All of 'em?

 

[clyde_carbon]

ok, but we still shouldn't have a blanket 'philosophy' like that.

again, we're talking about a few linemen anyway, maybe one O-linemen (sans LT) a draft?

I don't see many scenarios where we should draft an interior OL or a RT in the first round. An exception would be like that Packers in the '11 draft. They just won the superbowl, they needed to revamp their OL, they have their QB, WRs, RBs, CBs, pass-rushers, and a solid OT prospect drops to them in Sherrod. That's the only type of situation where I might make an exception. Other than that - absolutely not. Our OL has proven that high draft pick does not equal success along the OL. They haven't even been average up to this point as a unit.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Gotta disagree with you both. If a RT, C or G is good enough you take him. If he's the BVA take him. It all depends on who else is there.

There's no such situation where a C, G, or RT is the BVA.

 

[NinerSickness]

There's no such situation where a C, G, or RT is the BVA.

See the post above.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Except he's not the BVA. Ever.

So Steve Hutchinson was followed by Jeff Backus, Casey Hampton, adam Archuletta, Nate Clements, Will Allen, Deuce Mcallister, Willie Middlebrooks, Freddie Mitchell, Jamar Fletcher, Michael Bennett, Derrick Gibson, Ryan Pickett, Reggie Wayne & Todd heap in the 1st round.

How many of those players were a better value than Hutch'? All of 'em?

Not all of them, but at least one of them is, and that's why Hutchinson will never be BVA.

 

[NinerSickness]

Not all of them, but at least one of them is, and that's why Hutchinson will never be BVA.

Well of course one of them would have been a better pick. But you're saying he shouldn't have even been drafted in the first round! That means ALL of them would have been better picks than Hutch' even though he was regarded as one of the best OG prospects in many, many years.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Not all of them, but at least one of them is, and that's why Hutchinson will never be BVA.

Well of course one of them would have been a better pick. But you're saying he shouldn't have even been drafted in the first round! That means ALL of them would have been better picks than Hutch' even though he was regarded as one of the best OG prospects in many, many years.

That's not how it works Sick. No one is drafting using hindsight come April. Every team that makes a pick in the first round is expecting their first round pick to play like a first round pick, regardless of position. All things equal I'm looking at QB, RB, WR, LT, DE, DT, pass-rushers, CBs, and LBs, and maybe safeties before I start looking at interior OL, and I'm expecting the player that I pick at any of the above positions to play at a high level if I'm taking him in the first round. What happens in the future is irrelevant when we're talking about BVA on draft day.

 

[NinerSickness]

By the way, I would say it's an extremely rare case when I would want the Niners to pick an OG, C or RT in round 1. I would've loved it if the Niners traded down in '06 and drafted Nick Mangold (yes, even then; he was regarded as a Hutchinson - like prospect at C).

If the Niners traded down in '09 I would've loved taking Michael Oher even though he would've been a RT (Clyde & imac would've said that would've been a stupid pick). If the Niners didn't take Anthony Davis the year before I would've been fine with drafting Gabe Carimi to play RT where he was taken. We all know he's not a LT. Yes, I think he was a better value than Orlando Franklin who was taken 17 picks later.

If a C or OG who you think will be a future probowler is there in round 1 he's EASILY worth the pick. If a well above average RT prospect is there he's worth the pick too.

 

[imac_21]

Except he's not the BVA. Ever.

So Steve Hutchinson was followed by Jeff Backus, Casey Hampton, adam Archuletta, Nate Clements, Will Allen, Deuce Mcallister, Willie Middlebrooks, Freddie Mitchell, Jamar Fletcher, Michael Bennett, Derrick Gibson, Ryan Pickett, Reggie Wayne & Todd heap in the 1st round.

How many of those players were a better value than Hutch'? All of 'em?

So we're going to hindsight this? Let's look at it by draft grades. You can get a player with a first round grade at

OG
LT
S
CB
WR
TE
DT
NT

How are you going to draft?

As for "how they turned out" I would take Hampton in a heart beat, Clements and possibly Backus over Hutchinson.