Disturbing Report on Moskos

[magnumo]

Daniel Moskos has been a whipping boy for Pirate fans since he was drafted, and much of that is undeserved. It was not Moskos's fault that Littlefield drafted him instead of Matt Wieters.

But this article states that Moskos is not a candidate for an 8th or 9th inning role because he's now topping out at 91, after being in the mid-90's earlier in his career. This seems to happen to so many Pirate pitching prospects that I gotta wonder whether they're doing something wrong regarding pitcher development.

Bucs GM Huntington unsure about Ohlendorf - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (scroll down)

 

[element1286]

He's been in the low 90's for years, I don't think this is anything new.

With the Pirates I don't think it is any more prevalent, pitchers get hurt and lose velo, and they also add velocity. The only case I've seen where it might be organizational is with the Orioles.

 

[magnumo]

According to a report on the Pirates' page at MLB.com, "Moskos was in the mid-90s most of 2010 in the Minors."

Bullpen work impressive to Hurdle | pirates.com: News

According to Hurdle in the Trib report, "At one time, he threw in the mid-90s mph, but I have not seen that," Hurdle said.

Bucs GM Huntington unsure about Ohlendorf - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

My recollection is that Moskos was reported to routinely hit 95-96 at the time he was drafted. I don't have any links, but it makes no sense for a relief pitcher who topped out at 91 to be rated to go in the first round.

 

[element1286]

Sure when he was drafted he probably did throw that hard out of the pen, but changing him to a starter could have changed some things, or he could have lost velocity naturally, or those reports weren't accurate. The Pirates viewed him as a starter, or at least that is what they said at the time.

I remember reports saying he was throwing in high 80's at AA two years ago when he was starting

And whose gun in that MLB.com article using?

 

[magnumo]

Sure when he was drafted he probably did throw that hard out of the pen, but changing him to a starter could have changed some things, or he could have lost velocity naturally, or those reports weren't accurate. The Pirates viewed him as a starter, or at least that is what they said at the time.

With as much scouting as goes on with projected first round draft choices, I gotta believe that the reports were accurate.

If he lost velocity naturally as a starter, perhaps Hurdle was talking about getting it back naturally, when he was quoted in the Trib article, as follows:"We're trying to develop the mentality first, then see if the arm will get back to where it was." There's a similar quote in the MLB.com article.

My recollection is that the stated purpose of the Pirates using him as a starter was an effort to give him more work on his pitches. They never intended that he would remain a starter.

I remember reports saying he was throwing in high 80's at AA two years ago when he was starting.

I remember those same reports. It's not surprising that a guy who was described frequently as having a "maximum effort delivery" would lose velocity when attempting to pitch as a starter.

And whose gun in that MLB.com article using?

I have no way of knowing, but I have a tendency to give credence to that which is reported on the official site, especially when it relates to the primary point of the piece.

 

[sychmd]

i think pitchers throw hard in HS and most college situations because they a re used a lot.
once they get to professional baseball, they are babied and pampered, dont throw nearly as much and their velocity goes down as their arm gets weaker. Even tho physically they are getting stronger till a peak at age 27, their velocity goes down. with a weaker arm, they are much more prone to arm injuries as well. let pitchers throw. HS pitchers can throw 130-150 pitches per 7 inning game and go every 3-5 days. why? because they are used to it starting in january and throwing every other day hard and long toss on the in between days as a position player.

 

[element1286]

i think pitchers throw hard in HS and most college situations because they a re used a lot.
once they get to professional baseball, they are babied and pampered, dont throw nearly as much and their velocity goes down as their arm gets weaker. Even tho physically they are getting stronger till a peak at age 27, their velocity goes down. with a weaker arm, they are much more prone to arm injuries as well. let pitchers throw. HS pitchers can throw 130-150 pitches per 7 inning game and go every 3-5 days. why? because they are used to it starting in january and throwing every other day hard and long toss on the in between days as a position player.

There is no way their arms are getting "weaker" in pro ball. The pitchers who threw a ton back in the old days were just freaks of nature, and there are guys who could do that now; Verlander, Halladay, Sabathia, etc.

 

[sychmd]

not weaker, but not maxing their max velocity because of lack of conditioning. they dont throw nearly as often or as long as they need to.
High School: 9 wks, 13 games x 7 innings = 91 innings
Legion: 11 weeks, 15 games x 9 innings = 135 innings - 6(taken out early) = 129 innings
total: 220 innings, then went to college and played a fall schedule pitched sept-mid nov.
throwing in HS and legion as the catcher 2-3 other times per week.
no arm problems until college started babying our arms. then velocity also went down due to lack of arm conditioning and strength.

 

[element1286]

not weaker, but not maxing their max velocity because of lack of conditioning. they dont throw nearly as often or as long as they need to.
High School: 9 wks, 13 games x 7 innings = 91 innings
Legion: 11 weeks, 15 games x 9 innings = 135 innings - 6(taken out early) = 129 innings
total: 220 innings, then went to college and played a fall schedule pitched sept-mid nov.
throwing in HS and legion as the catcher 2-3 other times per week.
no arm problems until college started babying our arms. then velocity also went down due to lack of arm conditioning and strength.

Is this personal experience, or some sort of estimate?

I rarely got 200 innings as a position player in high school starting every game because of weather.

Weren't there rules on how often one could pitch?

Isn't it extremely possible the damage was already done by the time college came around, and that is when it manifests itself, and not that the "babying" of the arms was the cause.

 

[sychmd]

this was my senior year.
april, may, till june 8 was HS ball.
june 1 - aug 10 was legion. we played 4-5 legion games per week.
no rules at all about frequency or innings.
its possible that injury might happen, but with decent mechanics, the arm muscles and especially the bone get bigger and stronger.with frequent use, the tendons and ligaments stay elastic and flexible. it is when there is too much rest that the ligaments and tendons get tight and the elbow/shoulder problems manifest.

 

[thedddd]

this was my senior year.
april, may, till june 8 was HS ball.
june 1 - aug 10 was legion. we played 4-5 legion games per week.
no rules at all about frequency or innings.
its possible that injury might happen, but with decent mechanics, the arm muscles and especially the bone get bigger and stronger.with frequent use, the tendons and ligaments stay elastic and flexible. it is when there is too much rest that the ligaments and tendons get tight and the elbow/shoulder problems manifest.[/QUOTE]


When I read the article that his velocity dropped injury was my first thought. I wonder if we will see off-season surgery for him?