Cruz/Cantwell Legislation Discussion

[ThomasTomasz]

 

[Deathroll]

In that case, I would urge the SEC and B1G to secede from the NCAA.

 

[Duckboy33]

Y'all should have tried this before you killed off the PAC. Now I don't give a shit

 

[Calhoun]

In that case, I would urge the SEC and B1G to secede from the NCAA.

Are you talking across the board, as in all sports, or just football, maybe basketball?

 

[GatorTheo]

Did capitalism screw up college football?

 

[Deathroll]

Are you talking across the board, as in all sports, or just football, maybe basketball?

I assume that in order to not have to have a big chunk of their revenue confiscated and handed out to the small frye, those two conferences would have to leave the NCAA entirely.

Of course....that might incentivize each of them to grab 2-4 more schools on their way out the door - which would mean the ACC would get severely poached.

 

[speedfrk]

I’m skeptical of any solution to any problem that involves the government or more government

 

[Duckboy33]

I’m skeptical of any solution to any problem that involves the government or more government

The problem is the timing. It's far too late now. OU/Texas to the SEC was the tipping point. You can't get the cat back in the bag now.

Pushing legislation like this is just going to push the SEC and Big Ten into their own silos. That's something I don't want to see but I'm afraid that option is on the table, especially for the SEC.

 

[Duckboy33]

Are you talking across the board, as in all sports, or just football, maybe basketball?

All options are on the table.

FWIW, I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Hitman Hart]

The problem is the timing. It's far too late now. OU/Texas to the SEC was the tipping point. You can't get the cat back in the bag now.

Pushing legislation like this is just going to push the SEC and Big Ten into their own silos. That's something I don't want to see but I'm afraid that option is on the table, especially for the SEC.

we are at a point where even coaches like Kirby Smart are using it as a threat.

the problem with the sport is that two conferences have all the power, but it's more than that - only a select few schools in those conferences have enough influence to dictate action. Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, etc.

South Carolina, Vandy, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland, and others are bus riders right now. and there isn't anything stopping the big schools from kicking those guys to the curb - which dilutes the voting power of the mid-level and bottom feeder SEC/B10 schools.

i don't know how you fix the problem. most, if not all, suggestions from hardcore fans aren't realistic.

 

[Deathroll]

The problem is the timing. It's far too late now. OU/Texas to the SEC was the tipping point. You can't get the cat back in the bag now.

Pushing legislation like this is just going to push the SEC and Big Ten into their own silos. That's something I don't want to see but I'm afraid that option is on the table, especially for the SEC.

I could easily see the B1G and SEC walking out on the NCAA hand in hand. Either with their current 34 members or maybe after each gets up to 20 members. 40 member schools including all the major powers would be enough for a legitimate league. I can't see either conference leaving all by themselves.

If the choice is "we're gonna steal a big chunk of YOUR revenue and hand it out to all the small frye out there" or leaving though, then I think they'd leave.

 

[Duckboy33]

we are at a point where even coaches like Kirby Smart are using it as a threat.

the problem with the sport is that two conferences have all the power, but it's more than that - only a select few schools in those conferences have enough influence to dictate action. Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, etc.

South Carolina, Vandy, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland, and others are bus riders right now. and there isn't anything stopping the big schools from kicking those guys to the curb - which dilutes the voting power of the mid-level and bottom feeder SEC/B10 schools.

i don't know how you fix the problem. most, if not all, suggestions from hardcore fans aren't realistic.

I don't think there's anything you can do to take the power away from those conferences and/or teams. I think the goal should be to create the most competitive atmosphere that you can given the current layout.

A couple of things I think will help:

1) Recognize athletes as employees and create a negotiated salary cap. But you have to enforce the cap and penalize teams that break it. This could be sanctions, it could be a luxury tax.

2) Maintain access for ACC/Big 12/G6 teams to the CFP but recognize they aren't on the same footing as the Big Ten and ACC. Having a competitive second tier is very important IMO. ACC will likely look different in a few years but I think it's important they survive. The PAC being killed off may have helped Oregon but it helped accelerate the P2 divide.

3) Create a portal for when teams can contact prospective coaches and players. Again, enforcement is the key. This really shouldn't be happening until the CFP is over.

 

[Deathroll]

we are at a point where even coaches like Kirby Smart are using it as a threat.

the problem with the sport is that two conferences have all the power, but it's more than that - only a select few schools in those conferences have enough influence to dictate action. Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Michigan, Ohio State, etc.

South Carolina, Vandy, Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland, and others are bus riders right now. and there isn't anything stopping the big schools from kicking those guys to the curb - which dilutes the voting power of the mid-level and bottom feeder SEC/B10 schools.

i don't know how you fix the problem. most, if not all, suggestions from hardcore fans aren't realistic.

There are enough big boy programs in those conferences that even somebody like Bevo or Ohio State can't call the shots. They're just not big enough or powerful enough by themselves. I don't see either conference pushing members out. If they decided they had to secede from the NCAA, I could see them gobbling up Notre Dame, miami, fsu, Va Tech, UNC and one more school.....UVA maybe?....and then leaving.

What would be left? Every program that has won a national title going back over 40 years would be in those 2 conferences. All of the largest fanbases by far would be in. The schools with the most money (maybe except for Stanford and a couple of the Texas schools whose alums are currently swimming in oil money), the biggest facilities, etc.

If you're one of those 40, do you really want to share your revenue equally with Buffalo and Nevada and Wake Forest? I don't think so. They're all going to say "What value do these programs bring? All the fans, the attention, the history/tradition, the top players, etc are ours. Why should we be forced to subsidize them?"

 

[Duckboy33]

I could easily see the B1G and SEC walking out on the NCAA hand in hand. Either with their current 34 members or maybe after each gets up to 20 members. 40 member schools including all the major powers would be enough for a legitimate league. I can't see either conference leaving all by themselves.

If the choice is "we're gonna steal a big chunk of YOUR revenue and hand it out to all the small frye out there" or leaving though, then I think they'd leave.

There's a 0.0% chance the Big Ten and SEC schools are going to agree to take less by pooling their media rights with everyone else. It's kind of silly people are even talking about it.

 

[Hitman Hart]

There are enough big boy programs in those conferences that even somebody like Bevo or Ohio State can't call the shots. They're just not big enough or powerful enough by themselves. I don't see either conference pushing members out. If they decided they had to secede from the NCAA, I could see them gobbling up Notre Dame, miami, fsu, Va Tech, UNC and one more school.....UVA maybe?....and then leaving.

What would be left? Every program that has won a national title going back over 40 years would be in those 2 conferences. All of the largest fanbases by far would be in. The schools with the most money (maybe except for Stanford and a couple of the Texas schools whose alums are currently swimming in oil money), the biggest facilities, etc.

If you're one of those 40, do you really want to share your revenue equally with Buffalo and Nevada and Wake Forest? I don't think so. They're all going to say "What value do these programs bring? All the fans, the attention, the history/tradition, the top players, etc are ours. Why should we be forced to subsidize them?"

yeah, but i would argue that most big boy programs have the same goals. they want to maximize revenue. Programs with lesser prestige receiving equal payouts does not achieve that.

and again, it's reasonable to forecast that no one would be pushing anyone out but we are in an era of college athletics where the future is impossible to forecast. The Pac-10 no longer exists. The ACC went from having 7-9 members for its first 50 years eofxistence to being at a bloated 17 where at least half the schools are unhappy and want out.

No one is arguing that they are going to be sharing revenue with mid-majors and the most likely candidate to be left out of a superleague. but, under your initial argument they will be sharing revenue with Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern, Vandy, South Carolina, Purdue- schools that don't provide material value to media revenue.

 

[Hitman Hart]

I don't think there's anything you can do to take the power away from those conferences and/or teams. I think the goal should be to create the most competitive atmosphere that you can given the current layout.

A couple of things I think will help:

1) Recognize athletes as employees and create a negotiated salary cap. But you have to enforce the cap and penalize teams that break it. This could be sanctions, it could be a luxury tax.

2) Maintain access for ACC/Big 12/G6 teams to the CFP but recognize they aren't on the same footing as the Big Ten and ACC. Having a competitive second tier is very important IMO. ACC will likely look different in a few years but I think it's important they survive. The PAC being killed off may have helped Oregon but it helped accelerate the P2 divide.

3) Create a portal for when teams can contact prospective coaches and players. Again, enforcement is the key. This really shouldn't be happening until the CFP is over.

point #1 just gave Jay Bilas a heart attack - which I thoroughly endorse.

 

[Hitman Hart]

There's a 0.0% chance the Big Ten and SEC schools are going to agree to take less by pooling their media rights with everyone else. It's kind of silly people are even talking about it.

these threads in general are pretty fun b/c nobody knows what the **** is going to happen next. the only thing for certain is that the power players are going to continue to seek avenues to increase net cash flow.

 

[Duckboy33]

There are enough big boy programs in those conferences that even somebody like Bevo or Ohio State can't call the shots. They're just not big enough or powerful enough by themselves. I don't see either conference pushing members out. If they decided they had to secede from the NCAA, I could see them gobbling up Notre Dame, miami, fsu, Va Tech, UNC and one more school.....UVA maybe?....and then leaving.

What would be left? Every program that has won a national title going back over 40 years would be in those 2 conferences. All of the largest fanbases by far would be in. The schools with the most money (maybe except for Stanford and a couple of the Texas schools whose alums are currently swimming in oil money), the biggest facilities, etc.

If you're one of those 40, do you really want to share your revenue equally with Buffalo and Nevada and Wake Forest? I don't think so. They're all going to say "What value do these programs bring? All the fans, the attention, the history/tradition, the top players, etc are ours. Why should we be forced to subsidize them?"

If they were to get to 40, I think the SEC gobbles up UNC, UVA/VT, Clemson, and FSU. Big Ten gets ND and Miami FL. That could be where this is eventually headed, even if there's no breakaway. If that happens, you have Texas Tech spending big money and I think they will likely be a player moving forward. After that, you don't have any teams competing like a legit CFP contender left in the Big 12 and ACC.

The biggest mistake by the Big 12 and ACC was not agreeing to the 4-4-2-2-1-3 format that the Big Ten proposed. I get they didn't want to codify 2nd tier status into the rule books but the outcome will now likely be much worse for them.

 

[Calhoun]

I assume that in order to not have to have a big chunk of their revenue confiscated and handed out to the small frye, those two conferences would have to leave the NCAA entirely.

Of course....that might incentivize each of them to grab 2-4 more schools on their way out the door - which would mean the ACC would get severely poached.

Would be interesting to see how non-revenue sports would fare.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

So…

Does ND finally bend the knee?