College Football Playoff Rankings Discussion

[dtgold88]

It’d be hilarious if Alabama won the title.

yes it would....but please no.

 

[Sam Squanch]

yes it would....but please no.

Meh, not much different than OSU (that’s kind of a compliment, btw.)

 

[AJBuckeye]

5% chance Michigan can win out and beat Maryland and OSU.. that should punch their ticket.. but, incredibly unlikely. That’s all the discussion they warrant in a thread like this lol

 

[AJBuckeye]

Here is how well the committee works for the ACC and the SEC

Week 14
9 ND
10 Bama
11 BYU
12 Miami

ND waxes 4-7 Cal
Bama slips by 5-7 Auburn thanks to a turnover

Week 15
9 Bama +1

10 ND -1

11 BYU
12 Miami

Bama gets waxed by UGA
BYU gets waxed by TT
ND Idle
Miami Idle

Week 16
9 Bama Stays put as committee choses to NOT penalize CCG loser
10 Miami Sits +2 Sits idle but jumps idle ND and BYU CCG loser
11 ND -1 Sits idle and jumped by idle Miami
12 BYU -1 drops one spot as committee choses to penalize CCG loser


Summary: Every CCG loser dropped in the polls except Alabama as multiple idle teams get promoted against CCG losers


The system is clearly working for teams in all conferences associated with the ESPN Network


Here is the unbiased computer poll ranking
1 Indiana
2 tOSU
3 TT
4 Georgia
5 Oregon
6 Notre Dame
7 Ole Miss
8 Texas AM
9 Oklahoma
10 BYU
11 Miami
12 Utah
13 Alabama

 

[blastfromthepast]

Here is how well the committee works for the ACC and the SEC

Week 14
9 ND
10 Bama
11 BYU
12 Miami

ND waxes 4-7 Cal
Bama slips by 5-7 Auburn thanks to a turnover

Week 15
9 Bama +1

10 ND -1

11 BYU
12 Miami

Bama gets waxed by UGA
BYU gets waxed by TT
ND Idle
Miami Idle

Week 16
9 Bama Stays put as committee choses to NOT penalize CCG loser
10 Miami Sits +2 Sits idle but jumps idle ND and BYU CCG loser
11 ND -1 Sits idle and jumped by idle Miami
12 BYU -1 drops one spot as committee choses to penalize CCG loser


Summary: Every CCG loser dropped in the polls except Alabama as multiple idle teams get promoted against CCG losers


The system is clearly working for teams in all conferences associated with the ESPN Network


Here is the unbiased computer poll ranking
1 Indiana
2 tOSU
3 TT
4 Georgia
5 Oregon
6 Notre Dame
7 Ole Miss
8 Texas AM
9 Oklahoma
10 BYU
11 Miami
12 Utah
13 Alabama

The committee has 3 Big 10 reps. Why would they agree to this?

 

[Nat Mann]

As others have said. It appears losing the SEC championship games doesn't count but losing the championship game of other conferences does count. If Alabama had won, would not they have moved up and Georgia moved down? In that case losing the championship game would have counted even in the SEC. It is incongruent that winning a game is beneficial but losing is not detrimental. Going into the game it should be stated that the outcome of the game does not matter.

The outcome of the SEC championship does matter - as far as determining the SEC championship. It's not relevant when comparing Alabama vs ND, because ND didn't play a championship game. Your burdening Alabama with having to defeat Georgia (again), just to stay even with ND, who did nothing.

And of course Alabama lost to a team that had more than twice as many losses than the two teams ND lost to combined.
Does SOS only consider the quality of the teams you beat but not the rest of the schedule, you know like Florida State. Louisiana Monroe and that FCS juggernaut Eastern Illinois.

Sure, if you focus exclusively on Alabama's worst loss, ND comes out a bit ahead. But the real issue is ND's SOS vs Alabama's. Yes, Alabama played some cupcakes, just like everybody else does. (except ND. They scheduled 2 good teams and lost to them and the rest were middle of the road at best.) But even with that taken into account, Alabama's SOS is far harder than ND's. Alabama played five teams that were ranked 16 or higher when they played them and came out 4-1. Notre Dame played 2 teams that were ranked 16 or higher - and lost both. If you want to count games against CFP teams, Alabama played 3 and came out 2-1. ND played two and came out 0-2.

Some team is going to be the first one out every year, and I'm sure it sucks. But what you're supposed to do is pull on your big boy pants and go out a beat the tar out of your bowl opponent to demonstrate that the committee got it wrong, not roll up in a ball and suck your thumb.

 

[fightinfunbags]

The outcome of the SEC championship does matter - as far as determining the SEC championship. It's not relevant when comparing Alabama vs ND, because ND didn't play a championship game. Your burdening Alabama with having to defeat Georgia (again), just to stay even with ND, who did nothing.


Sure, if you focus exclusively on Alabama's worst loss, ND comes out a bit ahead. But the real issue is ND's SOS vs Alabama's. Yes, Alabama played some cupcakes, just like everybody else does. (except ND. They scheduled 2 good teams and lost to them and the rest were middle of the road at best.) But even with that taken into account, Alabama's SOS is far harder than ND's. Alabama played five teams that were ranked 16 or higher when they played them and came out 4-1. Notre Dame played 2 teams that were ranked 16 or higher - and lost both. If you want to count games against CFP teams, Alabama played 3 and came out 2-1. ND played two and came out 0-2.

Some team is going to be the first one out every year, and I'm sure it sucks. But what you're supposed to do is pull on your big boy pants and go out a beat the tar out of your bowl opponent to demonstrate that the committee got it wrong, not roll up in a ball and suck your thumb.

1. Alabama limped to the finish line going 2-2 down the stretch. Those two wins were over an FCS team and sweating out a 7 point win over 5-7 Auburn. The committee had no justification to drop ND and move up Alabama after ND beat Stanford by 29 and Alabama survived Auburn.
2. The SOS difference is erased with two realities: Alabama lost to 5-7 FSU and Alabama had 3 losses. Anything gained from Alabama’s best win over Georgia is erased with the knowledge that those teams played again the day before the selection show and it was abundantly clear that Alabama doesn’t belong on the same field with Georgia now. Just make the selections in October if the latest data just doesn’t get consideration.
3. “Ranked when they played” is a dumb metric. Missouri and Tennessee aren’t ranked today because they lost to every good team they played. Should Notre Dame get credit for Navy and Pitt who were ranked when ND played them?
4. Bowl games don’t matter anymore. A bowl win would have proven nothing.

 

[Nat Mann]

1. Alabama limped to the finish line going 2-2 down the stretch. Those two wins were over an FCS team and sweating out a 7 point win over 5-7 Auburn. The committee had no justification to drop ND and move up Alabama after ND beat Stanford by 29 and Alabama survived Auburn.

Citing ND's win over 4-8 Stanford just serves to make my case: ND's schedule had 2 games against CFP teams. ND lost them both. Most of their schedule consisted of teams like 2-10 Purdue, 2-10 Arkansas, 2-10 Boston College, 3-9 Syracuse.

2. The SOS difference is erased with two realities: Alabama lost to 5-7 FSU and Alabama had 3 losses. Anything gained from Alabama’s best win over Georgia is erased with the knowledge that those teams played again the day before the selection show and it was abundantly clear that Alabama doesn’t belong on the same field with Georgia now. Just make the selections in October if the latest data just doesn’t get consideration.

Both points were addressed in my prior post and ignored. To repeat, neither of those points changes the vast discrepancy in Alabama's and ND's SOS. Using the CC game means that Alabama has to beat Georgia twice, while ND does nothing.

3. “Ranked when they played” is a dumb metric. Missouri and Tennessee aren’t ranked today because they lost to every good team they played. Should Notre Dame get credit for Navy and Pitt who were ranked when ND played them?

If you don't want to count those games, fine, but keep in mind that Navy and Pitt are two of ND's best wins, along with Boise State and USC. None of them finished ranked. But if you want to use final standings instead, OK: Alabama has wins against Georgia and Vanderbilt, both in the CFP. ND's record against CFP teams is 0-2.

4. Bowl games don’t matter anymore. A bowl win would have proven nothing.

Go back and read my post again. The part about ND being in a bowl game is about how a team with class should behave, as opposed to how they actually behaved. A bowl game would have given ND a chance to do something they never did all season; win a game against a tough team.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Citing ND's win over 4-8 Stanford just serves to make my case: ND's schedule had 2 games against CFP teams. ND lost them both. Most of their schedule consisted of teams like 2-10 Purdue, 2-10 Arkansas, 2-10 Boston College, 3-9 Syracuse.

Both points were addressed in my prior post and ignored. To repeat, neither of those points changes the vast discrepancy in Alabama's and ND's SOS. Using the CC game means that Alabama has to beat Georgia twice, while ND does nothing.

If you don't want to count those games, fine, but keep in mind that Navy and Pitt are two of ND's best wins, along with Boise State and USC. None of them finished ranked. But if you want to use final standings instead, OK: Alabama has wins against Georgia and Vanderbilt, both in the CFP. ND's record against CFP teams is 0-2.

Go back and read my post again. The part about ND being in a bowl game is about how a team with class should behave, as opposed to how they actually behaved. A bowl game would have given ND a chance to do something they never did all season; win a game against a tough team.

1. Your comment about Stanford has nothing to do with my comment about the committee leap frogging Alabama over Notre Dame.
2. The discrepancy between Alabama SOS and Notre Dame’s isn’t vast though. That’s just the way you’re describing it. That FSU loss is embarrassing. FSU only won 2 games in the subpar ACC that impacts that ND SOS you’re citing.
3. Vandy isn’t in the college football playoff. Currently USC and Navy are both ranked. You’re fuc.king up in just relaying simple facts here.
4. I have zero fu.cks to give about your definition of what class is. Bowl games don’t matter. Nothing you say can change that reality. And don’t talk about class when your team just used back channels to fu.ck over Ole Miss’s season in poaching their coach in the middle of the season.

 

[AJBuckeye]

I don't blame ND at all for opting out. Bowl games are completely meaningless and they got the ultimate screw job when they Miami jumped them when both teams were idle. The ACC network played the ND Miami game over and over again. Then I heard the committee members all watch the game again which was on week one. Why not watch the Miami unranked losses where Beck had more success completing passes to the other team.

Using the committees own rankings here are wins vs ranked teams and losses. This alone shows what screw job they did no both ND and BYU. Why did BYU drop when they got waxed by TT but Bama who limped into the UGA and got waxed stayed put. In fact every team that lost in the Championship games dropped except Alabama. Several of them dropped to teams that were idle
Oklahoma W 9, 18 Losses 6, 13
BYU Wins 15, 17 Losses 4, 4
ND Wins 16 Losses 7, 10
Miami Wins 11 Losses Unranked, Unranked
Texas Wins 7, 8, 14 Losses 2, 3, Unranked
Bama Wins 3, 14 Losses 3, 8, Unranked



Here is the unbiased computer poll ranking from Kislansko Averages over 80 computer polls
1 Indiana
2 tOSU
3 TT
4 Georgia
5 Oregon
6 Notre Dame
7 Ole Miss
8 Texas AM
9 Oklahoma
10 BYU
11 Miami
12 Utah
13 Alabama

I am not an ND fan in any way shape or form but the got the shaft as the committee and the ESecPN network got what they wanted

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Week 16
9 Bama Stays put as committee choses to NOT penalize CCG loser
10 Miami Sits +2 Sits idle but jumps idle ND and BYU CCG loser
11 ND -1 Sits idle and jumped by idle Miami
12 BYU -1 drops one spot as committee choses to penalize CCG loser


Summary: Every CCG loser dropped in the polls except Alabama as multiple idle teams get promoted against CCG losers

Alabama had already beaten Georgia before. The committee made it clear they valued the previous win and washed the CCG result.

BYU & Ohio State, and all other teams fell from after CCG game losses because they did not prove they could beat their opponents one time.
It is weak, but it makes sense why Alabama was treated diffrent after CC games.

Alabama did not drop at all because it was the only CCG team that had already beaten its opponent once before!!!
I finally figured it out, why they did not move Bama. Yes!!!

UVA 34 @Duke 17
Duke 27 UVA 20 OT neutral
Virginia falls 2 spots.

Damn it. I give up.

 

[idseer]

The outcome of the SEC championship does matter - as far as determining the SEC championship. It's not relevant when comparing Alabama vs ND, because ND didn't play a championship game. Your burdening Alabama with having to defeat Georgia (again), just to stay even with ND, who did nothing.

if only i could make these low IQ fans realize how completely foolish this argument is. every time someone repeats this it lowers my IQ just to read it!

 

[Nat Mann]

1. Your comment about Stanford has nothing to do with my comment about the committee leap frogging Alabama over Notre Dame.

It has to do with ND's weak SOS, which is why the committee left ND out.

2. The discrepancy between Alabama SOS and Notre Dame’s isn’t vast though. That’s just the way you’re describing it. That FSU loss is embarrassing. FSU only won 2 games in the subpar ACC that impacts that ND SOS you’re citing.

Yes, ND has a "better" loss than Alabama, a point I've conceded since my first post. The difference is Alabama's stronger SOS, which should be obvious to any objective observer.

3. Vandy isn’t in the college football playoff. Currently USC and Navy are both ranked. You’re fuc.king up in just relaying simple facts here.

Good catch. I mixed College Football Playoff rankings with CFP participation. Mia culpa. So, let's get it straight. Alabama beat two teams that were CFP ranked at the end of the year, Georgia and Vanderbilt. ND beat USC. Navy isn't CFP ranked.

4. I have zero fu.cks to give about your definition of what class is. Bowl games don’t matter. Nothing you say can change that reality. And don’t talk about class when your team just used back channels to fu.ck over Ole Miss’s season in poaching their coach in the middle of the season.

You've now moved the goal posts. LSU is not the subject of discussion.

 

[blastfromthepast]

It has to do with ND's weak SOS, which is why the committee left ND out.

Yes, ND has a "better" loss than Alabama, a point I've conceded since my first post. The difference is Alabama's stronger SOS, which should be obvious to any objective observer.


Good catch. I mixed College Football Playoff rankings with CFP participation. Mia culpa. So, let's get it straight. Alabama beat two teams that were CFP ranked at the end of the year, Georgia and Vanderbilt. ND beat USC. Navy isn't CFP ranked.

You've now moved the goal posts. LSU is not the subject of discussion.

Point...winner

 

[fightinfunbags]

It has to do with ND's weak SOS, which is why the committee left ND out.

Yes, ND has a "better" loss than Alabama, a point I've conceded since my first post. The difference is Alabama's stronger SOS, which should be obvious to any objective observer.


Good catch. I mixed College Football Playoff rankings with CFP participation. Mia culpa. So, let's get it straight. Alabama beat two teams that were CFP ranked at the end of the year, Georgia and Vanderbilt. ND beat USC. Navy isn't CFP ranked.

You've now moved the goal posts. LSU is not the subject of discussion.

1. ND didn’t have a weak SOS. That’s your characterization.
2. No. You’re making up your own rules. Alabama has the better SOS. Notre Dame is the better football team. Notre Dame is playing their best football at the end of the year. Alabama is not. Notre Dame has won 10 in a row in dominant fashion. Alabama has lost 2 of the last 4 football games they’ve played. Notre Dame has the eye test all over Alabama. There was no reason for Alabama to have even jumped Notre Dame prior to the playing of the SEC title game. That wasn’t done because of SOS. It was done to protect the lucrative conference championship games. The committee knew Alabama had to be protected because they’ve been a mediocre football team for a month. Your argument and the committee’s argument blows. It wasn’t SOS.
3. Navy is ranked in the AP poll. We are debating the integrity of the cabal that runs the committee. You’re citing a self fulfilling prophecy. The metric (poll) is designed by the committee. Isn’t funny how that metric helps them cover their ass?
4. You diverged from the discussion to make a comment about ND not having “class” in relation to bowl games. You opened that door and I shoved reality about class in your face.

 

[AJBuckeye]

Computer Rankings by Borda Count

When you look at computer polls Bama was behind BYU, ND, and even Utah. When you look at how Bama played down the stretch they were not good. The committee was the only poll that way over valued Bama and was the only team not penalized when getting waxed in the CCG. They have no chance to win it and teams like ND who I could see making a run was left out. It is a complete joke.

 

[Pastafazul]

Way too much time has passed for these kids to play their best game

 

[blastfromthepast]

Computer Rankings by Borda Count

When you look at computer polls Bama was behind BYU, ND, and even Utah. When you look at how Bama played down the stretch they were not good. The committee was the only poll that way over valued Bama and was the only team not penalized when getting waxed in the CCG. They have no chance to win it and teams like ND who I could see making a run was left out. It is a complete joke.

Which teams "like" ND can you see making a deep run?

 

[Ron G]

The outcome of the SEC championship does matter - as far as determining the SEC championship. It's not relevant when comparing Alabama vs ND, because ND didn't play a championship game. Your burdening Alabama with having to defeat Georgia (again), just to stay even with ND, who did nothing.


Sure, if you focus exclusively on Alabama's worst loss, ND comes out a bit ahead. But the real issue is ND's SOS vs Alabama's. Yes, Alabama played some cupcakes, just like everybody else does. (except ND. They scheduled 2 good teams and lost to them and the rest were middle of the road at best.) But even with that taken into account, Alabama's SOS is far harder than ND's. Alabama played five teams that were ranked 16 or higher when they played them and came out 4-1. Notre Dame played 2 teams that were ranked 16 or higher - and lost both. If you want to count games against CFP teams, Alabama played 3 and came out 2-1. ND played two and came out 0-2.

Some team is going to be the first one out every year, and I'm sure it sucks. But what you're supposed to do is pull on your big boy pants and go out a beat the tar out of your bowl opponent to demonstrate that the committee got it wrong, not roll up in a ball and suck your thumb.

Do you then agree that going forward winning a conference championship is also not relevant? Or do you feel it is just a chance to win another game. You are correct about ND losing those two games. But you should be judged on the games you are required to play.

I just noticed that Navy beat Army and went 10-2. Do you think NDs victory over Navy compares to Alabama's over Eastern Illinois?

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Do you then agree that going forward winning a conference championship is also not relevant? Or do you feel it is just a chance to win another game. You are correct about ND losing those two games. But you should be judged on the games you are required to play.

I just noticed that Navy beat Army and went 10-2. Do you think NDs victory over Navy compares to Alabama's over Eastern Illinois?

To be fair, our best player didn’t suit up for that game, and Braxton Woodson was not ready.