Game Thread: Cleveland @ rip city

[Wamu]

The Cavs will need time. But they will be a great team by mid year

The LeBron haters out there hope you're wrong.

 

[gordontrue]

2 pretty historically bad games for LeBron (by his standards) in the first 3 games. Not unexpectedly, it looks like it could take some time for these guys to figure each other out.

Looking back, its amazing that the 2007-08 Celtics won 29 of their first 32 games. That's just crazy.

So far, Love has played well all 3 games, LeBron has had 2 bad games, and Kyrie has had one awful game.

Last night, there was way too much dribble-dribble-dribble-shoot going on from Irving and Waiters. While that's a bad thing, I see it as a positive that these guys aren't afraid to take their shots with LeBron on the floor.

Luckily for the Cavs, the 2010 Heat are still fresh in everyone's mind, and people aren't over-reacting to early season struggles.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

People keep comparing the Cavs slow start to the Heat and is saying don't worry, but the Heat played defense and had veteran players. The Cavs have no D, with young inexperience players. It won't be as easy.

 

[bksballer89]

LeBron threw minor wake up call shots at waiters & kyrie last night whipe kyrie refused to talk to the media

 

[MrHoople]

Windhorst's column was interesting...

"It's going to be a long process, man. There's been a lot of losing basketball around here for a few years. ... But there's a lot of bad habits, a lot of bad habits have been built up over the last couple of years, and when you play that style of basketball it takes a lot to get it up out of you. But I'm here to help, and that's what it's about."

On this front, at least, he has been consistent, unlike his defensive efforts in the early going, when at times he has just waved at the ball as it's been driven by him. He may be in great shape but his effort level is far from midseason form.

Nonetheless, he apparently has something up his sleeve. He's working on delivering some sort of message.

His references to breaking bad habits from recent losing seasons seem rather obviously aimed at teammates Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters, the pair of high draft picks who spent the previous two seasons tugging at the ball.

As James stood passively and watched as the Blazers extended their lead in the second half, Waiters and Irving dribbled and dribbled and shot and shot. They had 19 shots in the second half, James had four. He was scoreless in the second half and put up just two points after the first quarter. To put that in perspective, he hadn't scored two points in three quarters since the 19th game of his career back in December 2003.

"My mission is not a one-game thing," James explained. "We have to do multiple things in order to win. We got to share the ball. We got to play defense. We got to sacrifice in order to ultimately win. And obviously when you're going through the process, it's not the best part of the process, but I'm looking at the end of the tunnel."

“


Everyone wants to win, I would hope. Would you rather play selfish basketball and lose, or play unselfish basketball and sacrifice and win? So you pick it.
”
-- LeBron James


The end of the tunnel might be a ways off. When questioned about what he sees as the timeline before the Cavs start playing more like a contender, James offered something both real and metaphoric.

"It could go on for a couple months until we're all on the same page," James said and then compared what he has going through now to when he undertook the rebuilding of a 1972 Chevy Caprice Classic from the wheels up. It took numerous trips to the paint shop before it was James' desired shade of baby blue.



It's not just a "shots for James" vs. a "shots for Irving, Waiters or Kevin Love" issue. Though it should be pointed out that Irving was 3-of-17 Tuesday and then bolted the locker room before offering comment about it in another not-exactly-desirable show of leadership.

The young Cavs have no interest in passing the ball to veterans such as Mike Miller, who has one 3-point attempt in three games, or Shawn Marion, who seems to only get passes from James. And now the team has its first injury as backup guard Matthew Dellavedova tweaked his knee Tuesday and could be out a little while, though the team did not announce his injury.

No matter how it's parsed, the Cavs are going to need a lot better teamwork and a vast amount more effort before a discussion about their long-term goals can truly be had. This is something that James must understand when looking in the mirror as well as when giving sideways glances and speeches in team meetings as he applies his methods for whipping the team into the shape he's looking for.

It's also something Irving, Waiters and even Blatt -- who has seemingly gotten lost in the game at times in his first week doing the real job -- must come to grips with. James is trying to play chess, but the entire team could use a few games of basic checkers, too.

"It's going to be a process. I keep on harping on that word, but it's the truth," James said. "I've been there before and understand it. But you do have to go through it even though you don't like to go through it."

 

[bksballer89]

Kyrie as I always said is a shooting guard in a point guards body

 

[trojanfan12]

That's an interesting article by Windhorst. Although I don't necessarily agree with Lebron sort of "checking out" to teach his teammates a lesson, he is correct that it's going to be a process and those young guys need to learn to sacrifice for the overall team.

As someone else pointed out, it's likely to take the Cavs longer to figure it out than it did the Heat because the Heat were bringing in veteran players who were able to understand what kind of sacrifice was going to be required. These young guys just don't have that level of understanding yet.

Because of their talent, there will be games like the Bulls game where they put it together and look like what they will eventually become. But for the foreseeable future, there will be just as many, if not more, like the 2 games they have lost.

 

[MrHoople]

Kyrie as I always said is a shooting guard in a point guards body

I've always considered him overrated. Sometimes he can score pretty well but he freezes out his teammates. Plus he doesn't play defense. Sort of like Allen Iverson lite.

 

[MrHoople]

That's an interesting article by Windhorst. Although I don't necessarily agree with Lebron sort of "checking out" to teach his teammates a lesson, he is correct that it's going to be a process and those young guys need to learn to sacrifice for the overall team.

As someone else pointed out, it's likely to take the Cavs longer to figure it out than it did the Heat because the Heat were bringing in veteran players who were able to understand what kind of sacrifice was going to be required. These young guys just don't have that level of understanding yet.

Because of their talent, there will be games like the Bulls game where they put it together and look like what they will eventually become. But for the foreseeable future, there will be just as many, if not more, like the 2 games they have lost.

When they make the playoffs that will be interesting to see how Kyrie and Love do since it will be there first trip. No DWade or Bosh to lean on.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

People keep comparing the Cavs slow start to the Heat and is saying don't worry, but the Heat played defense and had veteran players. The Cavs have no D, with young inexperience players. It won't be as easy.

This x 1000^^^^^

Plus as I mentioned, they are circled on every teams schedule.

Its hard for them (The Cavs) to mentally bring it every night, but it's not hard for the opponent to be mentally prepared to give their best effort vs them.

And. like someone else pointed out, last night was an example of why there was no chance that James was going to any team in the West.

 

[trojanfan12]

When they make the playoffs that will be interesting to see how Kyrie and Love do since it will be there first trip. No DWade or Bosh to lean on.

I agree. That's why I don't see them reaching the finals this year. They are in the East, so they certainly have a better shot than if they were in the West. But I don't see them winning a 7 game series against a healthy Bulls or Heat.

 

[gordontrue]

The Cavs issue right now is offense.

Their defense has shown promise. Sure, there have been missed assignments and ugly rotations... but that's what everyone expected, especially at the start of the season. I see a defense giving good effort but making easily corrected mistakes.

The offense, on the other hand... no one expected this. Not even at the beginning of the season. Not this bad. Bottom 5 in the league in assist ratio, effective fg%, true shooting %, and offensive efficiency.

With the rebounding ability, size, and effort they've shown... they don't need to be a great defensive team, IMO... IF they can get their offense tuned and running as smoothly as they should be able to.


They don't need to be the 2011-12 Heat. Those teams lacked size and rebounding. They lacked well-fitting puzzle pieces on offense. They had to be an elite defensive team.

This Cavs team doesn't call for that. They have the pieces on paper to have a very efficient offense (even in the halfcourt) and the size and rebounding to handle physicality of teams. Their defense doesn't need to be elite.

 

[bksballer89]

Their defense needs to be a top 10 defense. You rarely ever see teams win titles with a defense not in the top 10

 

[gordontrue]

Their defense needs to be a top 10 defense. You rarely ever see teams win titles with a defense not in the top 10

Yeah, that's fair...

Here is where past champions ranked in defensive efficiency: (since 1973)
#1: Seven title teams had #1 defense
#2: Four title teams had #2 defense
#3: Five ...
#4: Six
#5: Three
#6 or #7: Seven
#8 - #10: Five
#11-20: Two
#21-30: One (2000-2001 Lakers)

So 37 of the last 40 title teams had top-10 defenses (using defensive efficiency).
25 of the last 50 title teams had top-5 defenses.