Charlie Manuel gets the axe.

[Redsfan1507]

Pressure is on Dusty now. Manuel was probably the only lower energy, less creative, less fundamentally sound manager in the NL.

BTW, count the Phillies injuries...then be embarrassed about using Ludwick as an excuse. They still fired Manuel. Who as sorry as he was, had a post season record that dwarfs Dusty's.

 

[JohnU]

I don't see the need to fire managers at this point in the season unless there are contractual reasons that make sense. An interim guy will only row the boat in a circle.

Phils are probably as good as they are gonna be for awhile and they have made some signing blunders that would puzzle Nostradamus.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I think the thought process as far as timing is cinch tend is twofold:a lame duck only adds to the lame play, and the interim guy gets a freebie on the job interview. Not many years ago the Phillies were operating a little mini dynasty in the NL...the pitching is older, so is the middle infield. Lifespan of teams isn't long. It's why I think there isn't enough sense of urgency with our Reds. If they aren't getting everything that can be has now, what happens in a year or two when they have diminished talent ? The 30's are usually decline years without PEDs.

Sandburg was an intelligent player. He has a few intelligent players, albeit older ones. They have some speed, and still have a solid pitching core. They need a couple upgrades, and one in the dugout too. Sometimes, if ex great players are allowed to, they start THIER retirement with 3 years left on the contract, and it reduces the initiative, work ethic, whatever and the team becomes lethargic. Spectator ( player) managers don't change that. It was time for Manuel to go. I often have similar attitude about Dusty.

 

[JohnU]

The explanation was that Manuel was told he wouldn't be renewed but decided to take the pay, give Sandberg the chance to manage and negotiate for a front-office job. Amaro is one Manuel's pals. They take care of each other. Manuel probably wanted out anyway. That's what I glean from hearing more on this.

 

[Redsfan1507]

We need to similarly motivate Dusty Baker.

 

[JohnU]

I have long wearied of the same-old, same-old about Dusty being a great guy and how he has this on his resume and how the players love him and how he does this or that. Same shit, different day. I watch the games on MLB and every announcer goes through the same crap about the guy, and propping up more lies about how the Reds are this powerhouse offense and how they have this tremendous bullpen and awesome defense ... I keep wondering, who the fuck are they watching?

Meanwhile, Toothpix sits there and the same thing goes on and on ... 12 hitters in a row strike out, pop up or GIDP ... and what the hell??????

The Xavier Paul at-bat last night was CLASSIC Reds offense.

It's time for Walt to send Dusty and his dugout dopes off to Duluth.

 

[eburg5000]

Charlie Manuel said he didn't step aside or quit. He said he was "fired"

I'm getting real tired of people (not many here) talking about what a great offense the Reds have. They pretty much suck!

 

[Redsfan1507]

They have players that have put up numbers. That doesn't make them a cohesive offense. Dusty gets some un-fair blame for bad pitching management, but he never gets blame for his morose poor offense without elite numbers if homers. He's a low baseball IQ offensive guy. This is a flawed lineup, but it should be a run a game better than it is, due to Dusty's failings, IMO.

 

[WvuDieHard]

Dustradomus is quite odious. He will continually do the same stupid shit. I hunt every fall with a fortune 500 CEO that I have personally known for 20 years and he always tells his upper line managers and vice presidents, especially when he is pissed off, this statement: "You can't expect to see change if you never do anything differently". Now this is coming from an "Industry Leader" who runs a company that is a household brand name. Company's are like baseball teams to some degree, they need innovation to stay on top of their game. DustMop should heed this advice because his hard headed philosophy is stale. And much like Charlie Manuel or Elmer Fudd as the native's call him, Dusty's time in a Red's uniform is closer to ending than anyone thinks. Failure to make any playoff noise this year will not bode well for DustMop. I know I will be sending my email to the front office titled: 10 Dusty Fuck up's that led to another dismal season.

 

[redsfan03]

I would think/hope that if the Reds don't advance to the NLCS this year that Dusty would at least be in hot water with regards to his job situation. I honestly can't think of a less successful postseason manager with as many appearances as him.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Rumor was, LAST year, Dusty needed to WIN a playoff series for a contract, and he got a 2 year extension anyway. Dusty isn't a great manager, but he's been outstanding at getting the most mileage for himself with less than stellar performance. His non contract years have been consistently under expectations, even though this might be the first Reds non contract year over .500. Dusty has been careful not to sign (or maybe not pursued- by ) with teams with a high bar for recent winning, at the time he signed, lowering perceived expectations AND increasing his chances of MOY ( for winning with previously unsuccessful teams).

You can interpret that 2 ways- other than say, the Yankees, most must win teams that DO win, don't change managers. Losers are always looking..

The obvious gaffes Dusty made in all 3 playoff losses last year didnt adversely effect his contract, nor did his previous non contract sub .500 years. I'm not sure what it would take for Dusty to lose a job anymore, so in at a loss as to what criteria he's being graded on either. He's always blaming players, and if course players don't criticize the guy making out the lineup card at risk of being labeled a problem. Its a quagmire.

 

[MHubbuch]

Manuel was under fire because of last season. I expected him to be gone at the all-star break.

If we do not start hitting I expect major changes to the coaching staff...soon

 

[JohnU]

Usually managers are fired because their entire body of work has gone sour. The team loses confidence.
Rarely would a manager be fired for a single gaffe in a game when it could be argued that if the team had scored 9 runs in the first inning, the discussion would be moot.

Dusty obviously is popular with the front office for his entire body of work, which is hard to argue. He's been a contender 3 of the last 4 years. I do often remind myself: Be careful what you wish for.

 

[WvuDieHard]

Dusty has been a contender for 3 of the last 4 years. His teams contend but do so in a rather inconsistent fashion. Dusty is fine with this pitching staff and a steady diet of HR's but when you get into a tight game that requires Pinch hitting, relieve pitcher moves/matchups, and moving base runners into scoring position, Dusty crumbles like a stale cookie. I can almost guarantee that Reds fans will see more of DustMop's follies this post season. When playoff games occur, you have to make the right decision every time. Dustmop outthinks himself in the regular season so why would we think he would do anything differently in the post season? There is a reason Dusty has little to no post season success, it is his hard headed mentality that he wont change. It is a philosophy that is old school and at times just plain ignorant. Pretty sure you will get a another post season dose of stupidity. Stay tuned.

 

[Redsfan1507]

You generally perform to how you practice. Dusty just doesn't practice textbook fundamentals much, and his teams get hurt by them more when the Reds talent alone isn't overwhelming, by definition, against playoff talent teams.

Players have to swim, but there are different philosophies about how to prepare them. Dusty throws them in the water without much preparation, and doesn't always rescue them before they drown. Worse, there isn't much outward evidence he follows it up with lessons learned. He needs a team of experienced swimmers to look intelligent. My problem with Dusty is, he tends to hurt us when we need him most. A team satisfied with .500 doesn't need him much. Coaches ? Who's lead are they supposed to follow ?

There isn't much reason on a team that pitches this well, and plays infield D as well as they do, to be last in the NL in DP turned. The Reds do lead in K's, but that isnt nearly the whole story..they throw a lot of UP in the zone in DP situations, poor choice, IMO...Situational defense may be Speiers belowick, but it blows here often. They don't always walk a force into play with RISP and 1 out, in sound situations, but play the defense in to "compensate"for it...just an example.

Plate philosophy- that's supposed to be Jacobys area...is deplorable.

Pitching- is pretty good... cudos to Bryan Price may be in order...or whoever scouted the pitchers, traded for them, or otherwise figured out more effectives along their way.

No one is perfect, and the GM buys the roster and staff.

So, what's Dusty manage ? The lineup ? Ok....

IMO, not a real well run ship. Players not only have to sail, steer, AND they have to plug frequent holes shot in the ship by the dugout staff...and if they don't ? Well then they have to SWIM.

 

[JohnU]

But dammit ... the team is one of only 5 in MLB with 70 or more wins.
There's not a lot about that which suggests the front office would be willing to replace Baker.
And I don't know that I want Riggleman either.

 

[WvuDieHard]

I will die saying it and I am very confident in doing so: This team is not playing up to its potential by a long shot. Reason: Manager and Hitting Coach. Consistent stupidity from DustMop while Jerkoby couldn't teach a kid to chew bubble gum. Both are piss poor in my opinion. It is a testament to the talent the Reds have to be in the position they are in today. THAT IS A FACT!

 

[Redsfan1507]

I hear you. The Reds are "winning".

There have been managers fired for losing the World Series. Wasn't Davey Johnson fired after losing a 1 game playoff ? Maybe a winning the division, I can't remember, but it raised eyebrows.

I doubt they had whatever Dusty has that keeps him employed, though. He's been very good at that. Sparky didnt win as many Championships as many though he shoulda...he overused bullpens...but I don't ever remember him getting out managed. Dusty is a comparative Bafoon in that regard.

If he didn't get the axe in 2011, or last year after the embarrassing playoffs, he probably isn't getting it this year. I think Dusty will retire a Red at this point. He's kinda like a tattoo that looked cool at the time, but winds up embarrassing you later when your perspective is better.

 

[WvuDieHard]

A famous DUSTMOP Quote: "I kind of feel sorry for the people who are inherently negative. What would that be like? I can't imagine it, know what I mean?" Ok Dustradamus, thanks for feeling sorry for us fans even though we see right through your bull shit. Will you feel sorry for us when we call out another one of your fuck ups in the playoffs?