Celtics looked lost 20 games in

[flyerhawk]

I don't disagree with any of this.

All Boston is doing right now is what a very good team should be doing in the regular season.

Pretty much. The Celtics were always going to be a very good team this year. They aren't the juggernaut that some predicted but they are a very good team.

I still think that the Celtics are going to make a big move during the season. But according to Kevin O'Connor they can't trade for Brow because of a weird CBA issue while they still have Kyrie.

 

[Gman]

Pretty much. The Celtics were always going to be a very good team this year. They aren't the juggernaut that some predicted but they are a very good team.

I still think that the Celtics are going to make a big move during the season. But according to Kevin O'Connor they can't trade for Brow because of a weird CBA issue while they still have Kyrie.

Takes two to tango on any type of big move, too... I just don't see anything likely to materialize this season.

The C's would have to get a 'superstar' type player in return... Boston already has plenty of very good players, which some folks argue is a problem (although I don't subscribe to that reasoning).

Anywho: the C's aren't going to make a trade just to thin out their roster.

 

[flyerhawk]

Takes two to tango on any type of big move, too... I just don't see anything likely to materialize this season.

The C's would have to get a 'superstar' type player in return... Boston already has plenty of very good players, which some folks argue is a problem (although I don't subscribe to that reasoning).

Anywho: the C's aren't going to make a trade just to thin out their roster.

Of course the Celtics aren't just going to trade players to thin out their roster.

But what about Brown,Rozier and change for Bradley Beal?

 

[Gman]

But what about Brown,Rozier and change for Bradley Beal?

I think salary matching would be a sticking point on such a deal. Brown, Rozier and change would not work on that front... unless I'm mistaken... (and I'm not an expert in this area, just going off of what I've read)

I like Beal, though.

 

[tlance]

I think salary matching would be a sticking point on such a deal. Brown, Rozier and change would not work on that front... unless I'm mistaken... (and I'm not an expert in this area, just going off of what I've read)

I like Beal, though.

Wizards probably wouldn't do that. I think it is fair, but I also don't believe Rozier has very much trade value at the moment.

Much like Randle last season, teams don't want to give up a ton to acquire him knowing they will have to pay him next year and not really knowing for sure what he is worth.

 

[Gman]

Wizards probably wouldn't do that. I think it is fair, but I also don't believe Rozier has very much trade value at the moment.

Much like Randle last season, teams don't want to give up a ton to acquire him knowing they will have to pay him next year and not really knowing for sure what he is worth.

Yeah.. ^this, too^... it's all academic, though... salaries don't work.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I guess in hindsight the Celtics should've sold high on Brown and Rozier. I found their squad especially enjoyable to watch last playoffs.

Shame they saddled themselves with that Hayward deal

 

[Gman]

I guess in hindsight the Celtics should've sold high on Brown and Rozier. I found their squad especially enjoyable to watch last playoffs.

Shame they saddled themselves with that Hayward deal

Meh.

The C's are fine... one of the best run franchises in the NBA.

 

[tlance]

Meh.

The C's are fine... one of the best run franchises in the NBA.

No doubt about that.

Eventually they will have to let some of their pieces walk away though. Probably Rozier this year. Maybe Brown next.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Meh.

The C's are fine... one of the best run franchises in the NBA.

No question. But going into the year there wasn't enough minutes to go around and now those two guys trade value have dipped some.

 

[Gman]

No question. But going into the year there wasn't enough minutes to go around and now those two guys trade value have dipped some.

I don't buy the "not enough minutes to go around" narrative.

If the C's keep playing better and keep on winning, these problems will take care of themselves.

 

[Gman]

No doubt about that.

Eventually they will have to let some of their pieces walk away though. Probably Rozier this year. Maybe Brown next.

We'll see what Ainge has up his sleeve on these fronts... in particular, I doubt Brown walks for nothing.

 

[shopson67]

I think salary matching would be a sticking point on such a deal. Brown, Rozier and change would not work on that front... unless I'm mistaken... (and I'm not an expert in this area, just going off of what I've read)

I like Beal, though.

Yeah, that's only about 1/3 of the way there in terms of salary.

Use the ESPN trade machine to check things like this. It does have some value in matching salaries, even if it doesn't weed out talent disparities.

 

[shopson67]

I don't buy the "not enough minutes to go around" narrative.

If the C's keep playing better and keep on winning, these problems will take care of themselves.

Well, even if they play as well as they can at reduced minutes, it can affect their trade value negatively.

 

[Gman]

Well, even if they play as well as they can at reduced minutes, it can affect their trade value negatively.

Maybe in the eyes of casual fans.

I think league execs will be more likely to peer beneath the surface and analyze the 'per 48' stats and advanced analytics.

 

[shopson67]

Maybe in the eyes of casual fans.

I think league execs will be more likely to peer beneath the surface and analyze the 'per 48' stats and advanced analytics.

I doubt execs rely on per 48 stats, as they don't take into account the fallacies implicit in just extending per minute averages beyond what a player can physically handle. Are those stats against starters or reserves? Can the player stay out of foul trouble? Can the player physically handle starters minutes? How quickly does the player's effectiveness suffer due to fatigue? Etc etc.

If a reserve player DOESN'T have inflated per 48 stats, then there is likely an issue.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe in the eyes of casual fans.

I think league execs will be more likely to peer beneath the surface and analyze the 'per 48' stats and advanced analytics.

I think that fans also tend to think that their own players are untapped resources that are far more valuable than their actual playing time would indicate.

As a Sixers fan about Fultz and you will get a very different perspective than from a casual fan.
As a Laker fan about Ingram or Ball and you will get a very different perspective than from a casual fan.

 

[flyerhawk]

I doubt execs rely on per 48 stats, as they don't take into account the fallacies implicit in just extending per minute averages beyond what a player can physically handle. Are those stats against starters or reserves? Can the player stay out of foul trouble? Can the player physically handle starters minutes? How quickly does the player's effectiveness suffer due to fatigue? Etc etc.

If a reserve player DOESN'T have inflated per 48 stats, then there is likely an issue.

I would imagine that they look at per 36 numbers but certainly not as a definitive standard, for the reasons you list.

 

[Gman]

I doubt execs rely on per 48 stats, as they don't take into account the fallacies implicit in just extending per minute averages beyond what a player can physically handle. Are those stats against starters or reserves? Can the player stay out of foul trouble? Can the player physically handle starters minutes? How quickly does the player's effectiveness suffer due to fatigue? Etc etc.

If a reserve player DOESN'T have inflated per 48 stats, then there is likely an issue.

I wouldn't disagree that the more knowledgeable viewer takes all these things into account.

I would, however, disagree that any of the Celtics pieces are suffering too badly in any those regards because of their "talent log jam" this season... guys like Rozier and Brown have proven themselves on all of those fronts... if they play well this season in their minutes, they retain their value to an overwhelming extent.

 

[flyerhawk]

I wouldn't disagree that the more knowledgeable viewer takes all these things into account.

I would, however, disagree that any of the Celtics pieces are suffering too badly in any those regards because of their "talent log jam" this season... guys like Rozier and Brown have proven themselves on all of those fronts... if they play well this season in their minutes, they retain their value to an overwhelming extent.

Brown hasn't been playing well in his minutes. He has an 11 PER and is shooting 29% from 3. He and Hayward getting reduced minutes has directly resulted in the Celtics playing better overall.